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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

Topological

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It is a shame that the 17:30 is the go-to diagram which gets shortformed. It was even that one that a pair of 153s last ran.

Unfortunately there's limitations on holding trains at Crewe for extended periods, with only 6, 11 and 12 accessible from Chester its then blocking a through platform, potentially 2 of them once the arrival from Manchester arrives. There's also the 18:10 Crewe-Cardiff and return is an out and back Crewe driver and TM turn, any long delay inevitably then impacts on the return meaning missed last connections etc so sending it and paying out the delay repay, is, as annoying as it is when you're delayed, probably the least bad option overall.

At least the delay repay was quickly sorted.
They used 12 for the Chester to go to Cardiff, but if the crew have to come back then possibly it makes sense. The 17:30 from Manchester used 6 to then go back to Chester.

Someone just needs to get the Mk4s running the trains they are scheduled to, then there would not have been an overcrowded 2-car on the 18:30.

The whole 5-car on the Marches is a major success though. At least we are not talking about 150s any more.
 
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sd0733

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They used 12 for the Chester to go to Cardiff, but if the crew have to come back then possibly it makes sense. The 17:30 from Manchester used 6 to then go back to Chester.

Someone just needs to get the Mk4s running the trains they are scheduled to, then there would not have been an overcrowded 2-car on the 18:30.

The whole 5-car on the Marches is a major success though. At least we are not talking about 150s any more.
Looks like the platforming isn't the issue then as nothing is booked through 12 at that time, although they don't like trains blocking if possible. The one to Chester would have to use 6 to get from the Manchester line, it's the only one possible.

To be fair, the Mk4s have been very good, Friday was a poor day with a couple of simultaneous faults at the same time as a couple on heavy maintenance. Coverage for the past couple of months has been over 95%, much better than the 197s are managing.
5 car has made a huge difference, at least a 2 car is almost noteworthy now rather than the norm.
 

185143

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As it is one of my regular trains at the moment, 5-car is fine for everything apart from Manchester to Wilmslow (and that is not really TfW problem). The challenge is when it is a single unit, which happens too often.

The big challenge Friday was that after the 3-car 17:30 failed the 18:30 was only 2-car and the 3-car that substituted from Crewe southwards did not wait for the passengers from the 17:30.

In the south, the 17:30 does seem to pick up a lot of passengers from Abergavenny onwards to go to Cardiff. Loads from Newport and Cardiff depend on whether the GWR has run on time (or an earlier one has run very late) so that no one is tempted to use the TfW instead.

Still TfW did an excellent job of confirming the 1-hour delay repay, so credit to them for that.
With respect, yes it is.

While they're happy to sell TfW only tickets for those stations, they very much should be providing a decent usable service.

In principle I agree though.
 

craigybagel

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Looks like the platforming isn't the issue then as nothing is booked through 12 at that time, although they don't like trains blocking if possible. The one to Chester would have to use 6 to get from the Manchester line, it's the only one possible.

To be fair, the Mk4s have been very good, Friday was a poor day with a couple of simultaneous faults at the same time as a couple on heavy maintenance. Coverage for the past couple of months has been over 95%, much better than the 197s are managing.
5 car has made a huge difference, at least a 2 car is almost noteworthy now rather than the norm.
On the day in question there was also a light engine move from Crewe ETD to Canton booked to follow the 1730 off Manchester from Crewe - it ended up sitting in the loop between 11 & 12 waiting for the restarted service to depart.
 

Topological

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On the day in question there was also a light engine move from Crewe ETD to Canton booked to follow the 1730 off Manchester from Crewe - it ended up sitting in the loop between 11 & 12 waiting for the restarted service to depart.
I saw that one on Traksy and briefly wondered if it was a balancing move of a Mk4 set. Thanks for confirming it was just an engine.

There was a moment where I wondered if there could have been a swap to put the Mk4 set onto the 19:10 ex Crewe out of one of the two south facing bays, and send the 197 empty (if it was needed in Cardiff), but that does not work if it was just an engine.
 

Topological

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Looking like a better day for the Marches today. Even the 17:30 has 4 carriages at the moment.

1W13 is a Mk4 and RTT was showing all of the others as Mk4 as well.

There was a 3-car 197 waiting to come off the Maesteg branch at Bridgend, so even the regulation seems to be working so far.
 

eisenach

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Just caught the ferry from Holyhead to Dublin today , and there are loads of 197s parked up in the sidings along the quayside. Does anyone know why ?
It reminds me of the last time we went, but then it was 175s packed en masse.
 

Caaardiff

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They are the Cambrian/ETCS units that are not yet currently in service or not required to cover non-ETCS stopped units.
 

tfw756rider

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I saw a post in the thread TfW 158s to Northern? (in the Speculative Discussion forum) by @Lurcheroo on Tue 18/3/25:

Just a note, TFW have had the lease on the 158’s extended for another 2 years, and there’s no guarantee that it won't be extended again.

As the current year is 2025, that suggests that Cambrian 197 passenger services might start in 2027 (!)
 

Jez

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Still TfW did an excellent job of confirming the 1-hour delay repay, so credit to them for that.
They did a really good job when i was delayed about a month ago. I had my refund paid into my bank account within a week. It helps when you book an advance ticket and do it on the app or online. Saves having to submit the claim and include photos of your ticket if its from a ticket machine/office.

To be fair, the Mk4s have been very good, Friday was a poor day with a couple of simultaneous faults at the same time as a couple on heavy maintenance. Coverage for the past couple of months has been over 95%, much better than the 197s are managing.
5 car has made a huge difference, at least a 2 car is almost noteworthy now rather than the norm.
Ive noticed improvements with the MK4's since January.

Do we know what percentage of 197 diagrams are covered compared to those booked? On average?
 

sd0733

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Ive noticed improvements with the MK4's since January.

Do we know what percentage of 197 diagrams are covered compared to those booked? On average?
Yes they've been vastly better.

AFAIK the average is 4 a day short so with 49 or 50 diagrams a day depending on day of the week they're running at around about 91-92% of diagrams covered.
 

Jez

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Yes they've been vastly better.

AFAIK the average is 4 a day short so with 49 or 50 diagrams a day depending on day of the week they're running at around about 91-92% of diagrams covered.
Most of the uncovered diagrams seem to be short forms with only a few Sprinter substitutions now.
 

sd0733

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Most of the uncovered diagrams seem to be short forms with only a few Sprinter substitutions now.
There's usually a lot of swapping around too to achieve that. Control have to perform a constant juggling act to keep things just as short forms.
 

Jez

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There's usually a lot of swapping around too to achieve that. Control have to perform a constant juggling act to keep things just as short forms.
I noticed that last week when a train with Maesteg on it went to Cheltenaham!

Its just as well TFW have the 5 or so extra 197s in service that will eventually be for the Cambrian line
 

Kite159

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I noticed that last week when a train with Maesteg on it went to Cheltenaham!

Its just as well TFW have the 5 or so extra 197s in service that will eventually be for the Cambrian line
Or even yesterday when 197029 got swapped from working to Ebbw Vale to working to Cheltenham with a 3 coach unit heading to Ebbw Vale instead. But then set swaps are nothing new.
 

Lewisham2221

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There do seem to be noticeably more set-swaps happening lately, to get units to end up at the right place for maintenance etc. and ensure units are stabled in the right places overnight. It does add a level of inconvenience, but on the flip-side it does seem to be reducing the amount of short-forms and Sprinter substitutions, so it's a case of which one is the lesser evil I suppose
 

vicbury

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I noticed that last week when a train with Maesteg on it went to Cheltenaham!

Its just as well TFW have the 5 or so extra 197s in service that will eventually be for the Cambrian line
This is standard practice at Cardiff Central whereby the arrival from Gloucester turns into the 1706 to Ebbw Vale Town and the arrival from Maesteg turns into the 1710 to Cheltenham. This all happens on Platform 2 at the same time, causing confusion each and every time!
 

87electric

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This is standard practice at Cardiff Central whereby the arrival from Gloucester turns into the 1706 to Ebbw Vale Town and the arrival from Maesteg turns into the 1710 to Cheltenham. This all happens on Platform 2 at the same time, causing confusion each and every time!
I often take this 1706 and the confusion is rife. Last minute can see the platform 2 dwellers switched to platform 0 and a mad rush to and through the ticket gates ensues.
 

Jez

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This is standard practice at Cardiff Central whereby the arrival from Gloucester turns into the 1706 to Ebbw Vale Town and the arrival from Maesteg turns into the 1710 to Cheltenham. This all happens on Platform 2 at the same time, causing confusion each and every time!
It certainly did cause confusion that day and im very clued up about these things. I was fairly confident it was a set swap as the Cheltenham Spa service disappeared off the screen on platform 2, rushed over to platform 1 and lo and behold it was on the screen there instead and then there was a 'this is a platform alteration' automated annoucement.

Whilst taking a ride on the City Line on a 756 today I noticed at least 4 197s were at Canton - some could have been between journeys I guess but are some of the ones with faults also being stored at Canton? Couldnt see the numbers but 1 was the 'Made in Wales' train which I think is 197120?

I often take this 1706 and the confusion is rife. Last minute can see the platform 2 dwellers switched to platform 0 and a mad rush to and through the ticket gates ensues.
Even more annoying when its Platform 0.
 

tfw756rider

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Whilst taking a ride on the City Line on a 756 today I noticed at least 4 197s were at Canton - some could have been between journeys I guess but are some of the ones with faults also being stored at Canton? Couldnt see the numbers but 1 was the 'Made in Wales' train which I think is 197120?
I saw 197120 in service yesterday (Fri 21/3/25).
 

Jez

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I saw 197120 in service yesterday (Fri 21/3/25).
I wonder what its doing at Canton today. Maintenance work on these gets done in Chester? I checked RTT and it seems it is going to Chester tonight on the 2220 ex Cardiff (with 197020)

Quite a few of the Manchesters seemed to be short formed today so im suprised it wasnt used today if its ok for service? Of course some 197's were needed for MK4 services which didnt help either!
 

BillStampy

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I wonder what its doing at Canton today. Maintenance work on these gets done in Chester? I checked RTT and it seems it is going to Chester tonight on the 2220 ex Cardiff (with 197020)
Swapped out of 1W16 this morning, mainly due to the 6 car formation which couldn't go forward.
Hasn't left Canton since then and is booked to work the 2220 ex Cardiff.
 

vicbury

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I often take this 1706 and the confusion is rife. Last minute can see the platform 2 dwellers switched to platform 0 and a mad rush to and through the ticket gates ensues

It certainly did cause confusion that day and im very clued up about these things. I was fairly confident it was a set swap as the Cheltenham Spa service disappeared off the screen on platform 2, rushed over to platform 1 and lo and behold it was on the screen there instead and then there was a 'this is a platform alteration' automated annoucement.

Whilst taking a ride on the City Line on a 756 today I noticed at least 4 197s were at Canton - some could have been between journeys I guess but are some of the ones with faults also being stored at Canton? Couldnt see the numbers but 1 was the 'Made in Wales' train which I think is 197120?


Even more annoying when its Platform 0.
Even the train crew are often confused when you ask them so there's no hope for us passengers! Oh well, adds some excitement to the commute home and fortunately I've never had to march to Platform 0 for the Cheltenham service.
 

Kite159

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Just caught the ferry from Holyhead to Dublin today , and there are loads of 197s parked up in the sidings along the quayside. Does anyone know why ?
It reminds me of the last time we went, but then it was 175s packed en masse.
I presume those sidings are the ones hidden from view from the railway (where a 67 + MK4 set was located today). Only the out of use 197033 was in the sidings alongside platform 1 at Holyhead today.
 

Roger B

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I had the pleasure of sole occupancy of Standard Plus on an otherwise busy 197119 on 1W58 from Shrewsbury to Crewe - and very nice it was too!
At Crewe I told people boarding the train that is was OK for them to sit there too, and they were very relieved. That said, the guard had invited a number of people to move into Standard Plus, shortly after leaving Shrewsbury, telling them there was nothing extra to pay, but curiously none of them budged.
From the train, I did see another 197 in Crewe South Yard, keeping company with a 319 / 319 conversion. Does anyone know which 197 that is, please?
Many thx
 

Lewisham2221

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I had the pleasure of sole occupancy of Standard Plus on an otherwise busy 197119 on 1W58 from Shrewsbury to Crewe - and very nice it was too!
At Crewe I told people boarding the train that is was OK for them to sit there too, and they were very relieved. That said, the guard had invited a number of people to move into Standard Plus, shortly after leaving Shrewsbury, telling them there was nothing extra to pay, but curiously none of them budged.
It's not uncommon to have people standing or sitting on the floor in coach 1 or 2 of a 5-car set, whilst coach 5 has less than half a dozen people in it - and then when told, for them to just shrug or look at you blankly and remain where they are. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
 

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