Class 377/7

[Manchester77]

It has been reported on wnxx that 377701 is on the test track at derby today. I was wondering when is the first unit expect to come down to London, to begin the cascades to allow the first few 319s to come up north. Also does anyone know what the seating layout will be, I'm guessing seat design will be the same as that of the 377/6 but will the layout have more tables and an actual First Class zone not just a removable one like on the 377/6s?

 

[JonathanH]

It has been reported on wnxx that 377701 is on the test track at derby today. I was wondering when is the first unit expect to come down to London, to begin the cascades to allow the first few 319s to come up north. Also does anyone know what the seating layout will be, I'm guessing seat design will be the same as that of the 377/6 but will the layout have more tables and an actual First Class zone not just a removable one like on the 377/6s?

Surely the layout will be the same? The 377/6s all cycle through one service with first class (1932 Horsham to London Victoria) and so all have first class marked out.

The service from East Croydon to Watford Junction and Milton Keynes is no different in accomodation principles than services from London Victoria through the suburban area to Horsham.

 

[Impey0711]

Is the south croydon to watford/mk getting new loco's as I was chatting to a friend of mine who is a conductor on that line and he seems to think they are only increasing the frequency of this service?

 

[MCR247]

And how are they going to do that without more trains...?

 

[Impey0711]

Well I didn't know if this was true or not Beacuse I use this line regularly between hemel and sheperds bush and its always busy so it will be good if it's improved frequency

 

[Manchester77]

The frequency won't be changing the services will be being lengthened to 5 car (377/7) and 8 car (377/2)

 

[swt_passenger]

The frequency won't be changing immediately, but it is definitely intended for when the 377/2s and /5s start returning from the Thameslink routes.

 

[MK Tom]

A lot of this has been discussed in the thread on MK platform lengths over in the infrastructure section.

Any pictures of 377701 yet?

 

[387star]

Off topic but How likely is it the existing southern green will be retained beyond 2015?

 

[joeykins82]

That'll depend on who wins the TSGN franchise! If Govia do then they'll almost certainly retain and expand the Southern brand to cover the whole franchise. Likewise if First do then it'll be their livery everywhere (although I don't know if the name First Capital Connect will necessarily survive given that they'll be running the coastway services). It could go to someone else entirely of course in which case they'll both disappear in to history!

 

[43074]

I was under the impression that the 377/7s were to provide more capacity (formed of five coaches instead of 4 on a 377/2) and allow the service between Watford Junction and Croydon to be increased to half hourly to alleviate overcrowding on the West London Line.

When were these units ordered by the way? I don't think it was that long ago.

 

[swt_passenger]

I was under the impression that the 377/7s were to provide more capacity (formed of five coaches instead of 4 on a 377/2) and allow the service between Watford Junction and Croydon to be increased to half hourly to alleviate overcrowding on the West London Line.

Yes, but only for a transitional period. There is a definite policy to make it a fully 8 car service, so you'd have to assume they've already got a plan to re-position the 377/7 elsewhere on the SN routes. I'd go with further 10 car metro capacity myself, as it's the secondary use for the stock shown in the TSGN ITT.

But as said above we've already done the subject in earlier threads.

When were these units ordered by the way? I don't think it was that long ago.

The order for the 40 vehicles is a run-on to the 130 vehicle 377/6 contract, and was confirmed in November 2012.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Used the 10:39 from Clapham Juntion to Harrow this morning and it was standing room only. The train thinned out at Wembley which I found odd. An increased freqency or longer trains would obviously be welcome as the service I was on was well into the "off peak".

Having said that I returned to Euston on the 11:24 (LM 350/2,4car) which was even more crowded, had to push on!

 

[Impey0711]

The west london line is well used at all times especially on Saturdays If their is an event at wembley or Chelsea at home or rugby at twickenham even shoppers going to westfield so 5 or 8 car sets would be ideal as I think there is demand for it

 

[southern442]

That'll depend on who wins the TSGN franchise! If Govia do then they'll almost certainly retain and expand the Southern brand to cover the whole franchise. Likewise if First do then it'll be their livery everywhere (although I don't know if the name First Capital Connect will necessarily survive given that they'll be running the coastway services). It could go to someone else entirely of course in which case they'll both disappear in to history!

On that subject I really don't want first to win the franchise.

 

[samuelmorris]

Hah, I kind of agree if they use the standard blue livery - it gets a bit much sometimes - remembering it'll be applied like this:

That said, I also dislike the 'plain white' used in a fair few places nowadays due to the instability of franchises, and the draft TSGN livery looks fairly similar to that.

 

[Class377/5]

The 377/7 are not quite the same as the 377/6 as the /7 need to have first class on them as the Milton Keynes service is advertised as first class service where as the metro routes the /6 run on don't. However as the /6 were given it temporarily on the Brighton runs, I'd expect the same for the /7.

The only pictures of the 377/7 are here

http://railpicturelibrary.zenfolio.com/p793657826

The WLL is supposed to go up from todays 5x 377/2 diagrams (4 circuits) to 3x 377/7 and 2x 377/2 diagrams (4 circuits) according to Modern Railway.

The increase being talked about was adding in an extra 1tph Croydon to Watford service which requires two units to run.

The white livery on the 700's is also being applied to the 365 fleet but its nothing to do with franchise instability (bit of a dramatization) but simple fact the TSGN franchise is a management contract just like LOROL is.

The first 377/7 will be delivered around the start of February with all units expected to be working with Southern by the end March (with 2-3 deliveries a week at the end of the /6 run this is possible).

 

[samuelmorris]

Well, I wasn't trying to sensationalise the franchise system as a whole, the press is quite capable of doing that for me.
What I meant was, for example, the Greater Anglia franchise was only initially going to be short term, hence the basic livery, but now has been left such as the franchise dates/terms keep changing, especially with the new idea to split the franchise up once again (albeit not to how it was before).

The WLL changes seem to be coming in various stages. I assume the February/March delivery will simply be like-for-like replacement of the existing 377/2s with 377/7s accordingly and no more - is there a timescale for the addition of the second hourly train (only as far as Watford makes sense really), and the train length increase?

 

[swt_passenger]

The London and SE RUS says that the 2 tph x 8 car service on the WLL will only commence once the necessary dual voltage stock returns from temporary use on the Thameslink routes. This proposed 2 tph x 8 car service, (with the second service destination being up for debate - i.e. they might run it to Milton Keynes as well) would not need to involve 377/7s at all, but 377/2 and/or 377/5 running in pairs.

Therefore I suggest that any temporary use of 377/7 on the WLL is unlikely to mean they get delivered with a significantly different interior to 377/6 - even if they do come with a few more stickers and exterior markings. SN's announcement has them working on both WLL and 'Metro' services, and they are stated to be a 'run-on order' so I reckon they'll be basically the same interiors.

 

[Class377/5]

Well, I wasn't trying to sensationalise the franchise system as a whole, the press is quite capable of doing that for me.
What I meant was, for example, the Greater Anglia franchise was only initially going to be short term, hence the basic livery, but now has been left such as the franchise dates/terms keep changing, especially with the new idea to split the franchise up once again (albeit not to how it was before).

The WLL changes seem to be coming in various stages. I assume the February/March delivery will simply be like-for-like replacement of the existing 377/2s with 377/7s accordingly and no more - is there a timescale for the addition of the second hourly train (only as far as Watford makes sense really), and the train length increase?

Spilt the franchises up again?

I don't know about SN plans for the introduction of the 377/7 but the 377/2 will remain on the WCML service anyway.

Reported Southern have recently starting work on the 377/2 like the work done on the /1 & /3. This work may not be done on the units transferring to TL.

Timescale on the second train is in the future with no real date set however the 377s should be off TL duties by end of 2017 so would say its closer to then.

 

[samuelmorris]

I was referring to the East Anglian franchise split proposal.

 

[Class377/5]

I was referring to the East Anglian franchise split proposal.

I haven't heard that one. Do you have a link?

 

[samuelmorris]

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/east_ang...glia_franchise_comes_up_for_renewal_1_2275103

 

[Eagle]

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/east_ang...glia_franchise_comes_up_for_renewal_1_2275103

Not a particularly reliable source, and there are no other sources, so I'm going to shelve my belief in that for the time being.

 

[Class377/5]

Not a particularly reliable source, and there are no other sources, so I'm going to shelve my belief in that for the time being.

Oh yes as this proves...

The current “Metro” service from London to Shenfield will the transferred to the new Crosslink franchise when that opens in 2017 and inner suburban services on the Cambridge line are to be transferred to Transport for London’s “Overground” route

 

[joeykins82]

Is that the east-west equivalent of Thamesrail 2000?

 

[samuelmorris]

Oh yeah I'm not saying that's the font of all knowledge by any means, but someone thought it up, and it can't surely just be that publication?

 

[Class377/5]

Oh yeah I'm not saying that's the font of all knowledge by any means, but someone thought it up, and it can't surely just be that publication?

Looks like they added 2 +2 together and got 5. There's no spilt planned, just rumor for a slow news day.

 

[swt_passenger]

Oh yeah I'm not saying that's the font of all knowledge by any means, but someone thought it up, and it can't surely just be that publication?

It seemed to be about the only report at the time it first appeared back in the silly season (July). Local media often give their local MP much more credibility with these sort of ideas, and then because organisations like NR and DfT don't tend to turn them down flat (because they are too polite?) the MP then implies his great idea is being 'looked at'.

Meanwhile the actual real decision makers are probably already ignoring the idea...

 

[southern442]

Looks like they added 2 +2 together and got 5. There's no spilt planned, just rumor for a slow news day.

By split up, they mean the metro route is going to be "crosslink" () and the suburban and mainline trains remain part of the current franchise.