Class 387 to GN

[D365]

Are the cushion seats on the Mk3-based units actually liked? I find them horrendous.

 

[bramling]

Are the cushion seats on the Mk3-based units actually liked? I find them horrendous.

I can't say I've ever heard anyone groan about the seating on either the 317s or 321s, however it's not uncommon to hear people remarking about how uncomfortable the ironing boards are.

Personally I don't mind the seats in either the 317s or 321s - my only criticism would be the 321s are a little low, and the legroom could be better if you have someone sitting directly opposite (as opposed to the class 700 where the legroom is appalling in most of the airline seats, all the time!).

 

[jon0844]

I think my mum would struggle to sit on a lower seat, however much padding. For someon with back problems, those ironing board seats are probably much better - and I believe studies back this up.

I have to say that I read a lot about the seats on the 387s and 700s on here, as it's such a hot topic, but I really can't say I've felt uncomfortable on ANY train, or plane, at least to any great extent. On a really long journey, I'd get up and walk about. Perhaps if I wanted to try and sleep on a long trip, the seats might then pose a problem - but for normal sitting, no issue at all.

I've not used a 387 into London (albeit just 30 minutes on the train from WGC) and even remembered the seats are different. All I notice is that the interior feels more cramped than a 365 and less open than a 317/321. I think that's down to the luggage racks, ceilin design and colour scheme. Much of it probably an illusion.

 

[bramling]

but I really can't say I've felt uncomfortable on ANY train

I take it you're never been on one of the class 142s with the Merseyrail interior? These can appear on some quite long journeys for example on the Cumbrian Coast or Southport-Manchester Airport. The seats are even more cramped than the class 700.

 

[jon0844]

No, I haven't been on all stock and very few Pacers. I think I would remember them, but my last journey was probably ten years ago!

 

[stut]

Are the cushion seats on the Mk3-based units actually liked? I find them horrendous.

Same here. Far, far too low, bouncy, and with the back at a weird angle so that you need to use your feet to support you, and it's very uncomfortable to read. The position means that, on the 317s (and 321s, although less so), not only do my shoulders overlap on to the next seat by quite some margin, but my knee is a couple of inches from the facing seat cushion. As I almost never travel on the things off-peak, this leads to a very uncomfortable seating position (one buttock off the seat to accommodate the passenger beside, legs splayed and interlocking with the person opposite, foot not flat on the floor depsite the pressure from the seating position).

It's hard to imagine a worse arrangement. But then came along the 700s where I can't actually fit my legs in at all...

The 387s are bliss compared to all this. But then I also like a mattress that has only slightly more give than a block of wood...

 

[bramling]

No, I haven't been on all stock and very few Pacers. I think I would remember them, but my last journey was probably ten years ago!

A search on google images might be quite enlightening/horrifying!

At least they mean no one can say the class 700 has the worst seating of any train in Britain, although of course they will be able to take that title once these particular Pacers are withdrawn.

 

[stut]

I really can't say I've felt uncomfortable on ANY train, or plane, at least to any great extent.

How tall are you, though? At 6'1", hardly that far along the bell curve, I increasingly find seats on trains and planes that simply don't work for me - where I cannot sit unless my legs are at an angle, and where I cannot keep within the width of a single seat.

 

[Skimble19]

I must admit I really don't think the Southern interior colour scheme helps at all, especially when it's looking pretty dated now IMHO. The Gatwick Express units certainly seem lighter / brighter and more "airy", despite the only real difference being red/grey seats and blue poles instead of lots and lots of green on green..

Hopefully one day they will end up with the standard blue interior that the rest of GN/TL will have, may help brighten them up from the rather drab green, although seeing as we don't even seem to be able to change the door colour I'm not holding my breath!! And you never know, First Class may even revert to being in a sensible place!

 

[jon0844]

I never liked the 377/5s on TL because of the horrid shade of green. The reason I guess the 387s feel cramped is the seats are that bit higher than the 365 I'm currently on. Still protects my head, but only just (and only if I slouch down a bit) so I guess wouldn't be allowed today.

I'm 5ft 10 by the way. Seats that are more upright do at least help a bit.

 

[physics34]

I must admit I really don't think the Southern interior colour scheme helps at all, especially when it's looking pretty dated now IMHO. The Gatwick Express units certainly seem lighter / brighter and more "airy", despite the only real difference being red/grey seats and blue poles instead of lots and lots of green on green..

Hopefully one day they will end up with the standard blue interior that the rest of GN/TL will have, may help brighten them up from the rather drab green, although seeing as we don't even seem to be able to change the door colour I'm not holding my breath!! And you never know, First Class may even revert to being in a sensible place!

They just wont spend any money on things like this til 2021 at least... unless the franchise arrangement changes before then which is possible considering the current issues... or there so many complaints about the seats that because of bad PR they decide to change the cushioning.

 

[387star]

The 377/1-4 are meant to be going for their next overhauls from next year including doors and external and internal improvements

regarding first class on 387s it must be Bombardier who decide on where first class is due to the placement of the frosted door or is that designed as a fire door as some people suggest?

I imagine the C2C units will find their way back to gtr once they get their new trains

 

[physics34]

The 377/1-4 are meant to be going for their next overhauls from next year including doors and external and internal improvements

regarding first class on 387s it must be Bombardier who decide on where first class is due to the placement of the frosted door or is that designed as a fire door as some people suggest?

I imagine the C2C units will find their way back to gtr once they get their new trains

377/1-4 not due their C6 or re-livery until 2019 according to Porterbrook documents, even though the early 377s are starting to fade noticably.

377/5s are undergoing repaint "repairs" and patching now. No word on their C6s.

https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/rolling-stock/links/6yearplan.pdf

 

[crazystripe]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but what has happened to the 321s that are now displaced by 387s? Are they still with GN or have they a new home to go to, and if so, is there a refurbishment programme that they'll be going through?

Further to the posts above, I think leaf fall must have been the major contributor to cautious acceleration/braking over the past couple of weeks on the 387s. Today, a dry morning, on the 0706 ex PBO, the units shifted nicely away from each station, and the driver was braking nice and smoothly into the next without approaching at a crawl. Power sockets a definite plus point, too.

 

[D365]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but what has happened to the 321s that are now displaced by 387s? Are they still with GN or have they a new home to go to, and if so, is there a refurbishment programme that they'll be going through?

Six are going to Greater Anglia on a short term basis (along with all 12 317s) until their new stock comes into service.

Further to the posts above, I think leaf fall must have been the major contributor to cautious acceleration/braking over the past couple of weeks on the 387s. Today, a dry morning, on the 0706 ex PBO, the units shifted nicely away from each station, and the driver was braking nice and smoothly into the next without approaching at a crawl. Power sockets a definite plus point, too.

You must be the first person on the Great Northern who has genuinely praised the 387s!

 

[crazystripe]

You must be the first person on the Great Northern who has genuinely praised the 387s!

It helps that I start my journey at Sandy or Biggleswade so lack of seats is never an issue!!

 

[stut]

It helps that I start my journey at Sandy or Biggleswade so lack of seats is never an issue!!

Same here, and I genuinely like them.

 

[D365]

That's good to hear, not sure how many Peterborough trains will be 387s after the December timetable change, but I am planning to commute next summer so it will be nice to try one out.

 

[bramling]

You must be the first person on the Great Northern who has genuinely praised the 387s!

I don't think it's that anyone massively dislikes them, it's just that their introduction has introduced some issues which didn't exist before:

1) Reduction in seats, which is a major issue at certain stations or on certain services.

2) The interior layout reduces seating whilst not offering any improvement in standing capability.

3) Hard uncomfortable seating.

4) First class is in a daft location (especially as at present some of the trains face different ways), and is a massive downgrade compared to the current trans.

Meanwhile, at present, the only trade-off benefit being seen is air-conditioning and plug sockets. My impression is that most passengers aren't too fussed about this compared to the disbenefits listed above.

Longer formations would have helped to mitigate (1) and (2), but so far at least this doesn't seem to be happening.

It doesn't help of course that passengers are used to the 365s, which are generally very highly regarded.

 

[stut]

In terms of standing capacity, there is an improvement compared to the 317s and 321s. These don't really have anywhere to hold on to in the aisles, so most people crowd into the vestibules. Where people are in the aisles, they tend to stand around the seat backs, but that's a really cramped position. The 387s have grab handles and a wider aisle all the way along, as well as larger vestibules.

The seat comfort is subjective, but I really struggle to see how you could anything approaching comfort in a full 317. Personally, I find them better than the 365s too - on these, I'd always end up having to sit with my leg in the aisle, as the seat pitch was too tight. Not a problem on the 387s.

First class, yes, that's annoyingly unpredictable.

To me, the reduction in seats is the only issue. Although personally I'd stand rather than take a middle or window-of-3 seat on a 317 anyway...

 

[adamedwards]

Any news on additional diagrams for the 387s on GN? I'm still seeing plenty of 317s and 321s at Hatfield.

 

[whoosh]

Supposedly 321s last day yesterday. Anyone seen any in service today?

More 387s from December timetable change, and even more from mid to late February.

 

[causton]

Supposedly 321s last day yesterday. Anyone seen any in service today?

More 387s from December timetable change, and even more from mid to late February.

A local gen group has reported at least two.

 

[class387]

Supposedly 321s last day yesterday. Anyone seen any in service today?

More 387s from December timetable change, and even more from mid to late February.

Saw two 8-cars and one 4-car this morning.

 

[nmr1h]

Supposedly 321s last day yesterday. Anyone seen any in service today?

More 387s from December timetable change, and even more from mid to late February.

Definitely still in service sitting on one that forms the 15:22 KGX to PBO will be nice when they are replaced, definitely not enough space for two people that are 6ft or more to sit opposite each other!

 

[NSE]

I was on 321406 yesterday. Gutted when that arrived over my expected 365.

 

[SprinterMan]

There were 2 321s on an evening peak Cambridge slow that drops the back set at Royston tonight. It seems they are lingering...

Adam

 

[Failed Unit]

Don't think the diagrams have changed since last week. Still lots of bins (thankfully)

 

[Class377/5]

387107/125 should now be at Hornsey.

 

[Failed Unit]

A couple of the 387s i saw today had a lot of graffiti on them. I think they both spent the weekend at a Peterborough. Saw them both at about 845 at Finsbury Park. 12 car heading south and an 8 heading north (assuming ecs for 1000 Letchworth- Kx service)