Class 387

[MatthewRead]

Although allegedly according to some sources the 319 flex is being considered for the North Downs route.

Makes sense to me

 

[Class 170101]

I've looked it up for you. In 2014-15 total entrances and exits amounted to

Bramley: 273790 of which 1/3 were seasons. About 750 per day
Mortimer: 186084 of which 1/3 were seasons. Just over 500 per day.

and to complete the group

Reading West: 412642 of which nearly 40% were seasons. About 1,100 per day.

It should be noted that Reading West is also served by the half-hourly Newbury stopping service.

I leave it to the reader to decide whether the service at Mortimer and Bramley is excessive. It has been half hourly for many years.

Whether stops should be removed is only an issue if (a) the station at Green Park is built and (b) trains stop there and (c) trains of the same power-to-weight ratio continue to be used.

Unless I've done my calculations badly thats about 400 to 600 passengers per day (and thats probably generous)?

Possibly then you would need to look at the demand profile so perhaps half hourly in the peaks and hourly outside them or perhaps see where people are going and have non-stop trains against the peak flow to enable extra stops in the peak direction (subject to pathing of course. Reading West being the busiest of the three doesn't surprise me.

Merely another idea into the melting pot

 

[D365]

Although allegedly according to some sources the 319 flex is being considered for the North Downs route.

Makes sense to me

Doesn't make sense to me. The D319 would be far less rapid, plus it takes us right back to the same microfleet issue.

 

[47802]

Doesn't make sense to me. The D319 would be far less rapid, plus it takes us right back to the same microfleet issue.

Well yes but presume the motivation would be to release more Turbo's to the South West, I guess they might only be considered for Gatwick working where being limited stop the probable more sluggish performance on Diesel would be less of an issue. In any case the train has still to be built yet and it may well be considered and rejected.

 

[D365]

On a similar note, would the Class 230 be suitable?

 

[coppercapped]

Newbury stopping service is only hourly, the Bedwyn semi-fasts skip Reading West.

True. Brain fade...!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On a similar note, would the Class 230 be suitable?

I saw the smiley, but to which route are you referring? The North Downs or the Basingstoke?

Personally I think the 230s would be a good match to the Thames Valley branches - none are high speed, all are short and they all have peak loading issues. If they ran on the West Ealing - Greenford line it would almost be like going home.

In each case they would release some 90mph stock.

 

[deltic08]

There are no aspirations on the part of the DfT or Network Rail to electrify the North Downs line, let alone any plans or funding.

There was never any intention to cascade all the Class 165/166s away from Reading to elsewhere.

The situation with the proposed station at Green Park, and with the other suggested station at the other end of the Reading to Basingstoke line at Chineham, is a bit more nuanced. At the moment two dmus can maintain a 30 minute interval service as there is sufficient turnround time at each end of the journey. Adding another stop means that, for reliability, 3 dmus would be needed for the same interval. As the number of additional passengers from either or both of Green Park and Chineham would not increase passenger numbers by 50% - to pay for increase in the train fleet of 50% - the economics of the operation become untenable.

To get round this the journey time needs to be reduced. This could be done by increasing line speed - but the short distances between stops does not make this very effective - or by increasing the trains' acceleration. This means more horsepower - so a more powerful dmu or electrification are the only ways to maintain a 30 minute interval with two trains.

Both solutions are expensive - the second more than the first.

How about cascading in 3 Pacers instead of two turbos until electrification comes along? The toilets would have to be removed of course to make them compliant but it is a short end to end journey. A case of the South getting the North's cast-offs. Now there is a novelty.

 

[coppercapped]

All these suggestions about alternative ways to run the Reading - Basingstoke service show only that people have too much time on their hands! How often does it have to be said that the journey time issue only arises if and when additional stations are built on the route? The earliest one, Reading Green Park, is unlikely to be finished within the next four or five years - by then so much else will have changed that any suggestions made now will no longer be relevant.

 

[spark001uk]

On a similar note, would the Class 230 be suitable?

Well, upon reading the wiki on them, I'm not too sure if they'll want them at the moment, after LM pulling out of the trial after the unit caught fire.! Only one unit been built thus far as well. Not sure what the situation is now though.

 

[Class377/5]

Although allegedly according to some sources the 319 flex is being considered for the North Downs route.

The GWR 387/1 are to be used for that under some plans that have been talked about elsewhere.

 

[leomartin125]

Monday's GWR delivery in the system now, here. Later path this time.

It's been changed to North Pole IEP Depot, so turns out Reading may not be the ideal place for all the new 387's just yet after all!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O64561/2017/01/16/advanced

 

[Fincra5]

The GWR 387/1 are to be used for that under some plans that have been talked about elsewhere.

Are they going to fill in the 3rd rail gaps then on the NDL?

 

[spark001uk]

2 things: I see last night's Bletchley - Reading TCD delivery was changed last minute to North Pole, what gives?

Also, I've just come past Wembley yard and there's a shiny green 387/1 sat there? Didn't see the number.

 

[leomartin125]

2 things: I see last night's Bletchley - Reading TCD delivery was changed last minute to North Pole, what gives?

Also, I've just come past Wembley yard and there's a shiny green 387/1 sat there? Didn't see the number.

Could have been pathing issues, just a guess but I'm sure our Reading TCD buddy will let us know as soon as he knows.

Regarding the 387 at Wembley, that could have been 387142 or 387143, both were out on test between Wembley and Crewe today. The 387 numbers for GWR just keep rising, nothing stopping the production site at Derby I see! Very efficient!

 

[JN114]

2 things: I see last night's Bletchley - Reading TCD delivery was changed last minute to North Pole, what gives?

Also, I've just come past Wembley yard and there's a shiny green 387/1 sat there? Didn't see the number.

It proved very difficult to deliver the unit to Reading TCD at that time of night last time round - both in terms of resourcing a conductor driver and in terms of the delivery (with the need to run round / shunt barrier wagons getting in the way of normal Depot operations). An agreement was reached with North Pole to accommodate a 9th unit for delivery purposes - I would expect to see one moved to Reading to balance in the near future as I'm sure Hitachi are thrilled at having to give up more Depot space to us.

 

[spark001uk]

It proved very difficult to deliver the unit to Reading TCD at that time of night last time round - both in terms of resourcing a conductor driver and in terms of the delivery (with the need to run round / shunt barrier wagons getting in the way of normal Depot operations). An agreement was reached with North Pole to accommodate a 9th unit for delivery purposes - I would expect to see one moved to Reading to balance in the near future as I'm sure Hitachi are thrilled at having to give up more Depot space to us.

OK, cheers for the info. Could they not have dropped it off / moved it to West Ealing? Or are the Sidings still not ready yet?

 

[JN114]

OK, cheers for the info. Could they not have dropped it off / moved it to West Ealing? Or are the Sidings still not ready yet?

Still not ready, or we wouldn't be at North Pole at all.

 

[Fincra5]

It proved very difficult to deliver the unit to Reading TCD at that time of night last time round - both in terms of resourcing a conductor driver and in terms of the delivery (with the need to run round / shunt barrier wagons getting in the way of normal Depot operations). An agreement was reached with North Pole to accommodate a 9th unit for delivery purposes - I would expect to see one moved to Reading to balance in the near future as I'm sure Hitachi are thrilled at having to give up more Depot space to us.

To be fair... Hitachi don't really have any of their own units to fill the depot

 

[FGW_DID]

Could have been pathing issues, just a guess but I'm sure our Reading TCD buddy will let us know as soon as he knows……

It proved very difficult to deliver the unit to Reading TCD at that time of night last time round - both in terms of resourcing a conductor driver and in terms of the delivery (with the need to run round / shunt barrier wagons getting in the way of normal Depot operations)…….

That's basically it, Fridays nights delivery wouldn't have been too bad but there were another couple of issues that didn't help but on that I won't comment further.

Really quite glad Monday nights delivery got switched to N. Pole!

 

[leomartin125]

To be fair... Hitachi don't really have any of their own units to fill the depot

That's not the point. Regardless of how many Class 800's currently sit in North Pole, it's owned and operated by Hitachi, not Bombardier, so GWR storing their 387 units at North Pole will always be at the discretion of Hitachi, and if they want them gone by a certain date, they will be gone by that date. Nothing to do with the amount of units Hitachi have there.

 

[Class377/5]

OK, cheers for the info. Could they not have dropped it off / moved it to West Ealing? Or are the Sidings still not ready yet?

I'd be surprised if post delivery checks could be done at West Ealing. All the GTR 387s under went checks before being released for passenger service.

 

[spark001uk]

Could have been pathing issues, just a guess but I'm sure our Reading TCD buddy will let us know as soon as he knows.

Regarding the 387 at Wembley, that could have been 387142 or 387143, both were out on test between Wembley and Crewe today. The 387 numbers for GWR just keep rising, nothing stopping the production site at Derby I see! Very efficient!

I think GWR are soon going to have space issues for these! All I can think of is ROG taking a few more to Reading for the time being?

On a side note, next to the 387 at Wembley yesterday I saw 92015 with a load of stickers and text on the side saying "Yiwu to London Train". That loco is now in Barking on the front of said train, just saw it on the news! It must have gone down to Dollands not long after I saw it yesterday. Unless there's more than one loco with that stuff written on it.!

 

[FGW_DID]

I think GWR are soon going to have space issues for these! All I can think of is ROG taking a few more to Reading for the time being?………

Which would be great, but you seem to be overlooking the small issue of the fact we still have the LTV fleet (minus 166215 & 150002) to maintain!

We ain't the TARDIS, that's for sure!!!

 

[spark001uk]

Which would be great, but you seem to be overlooking the small issue of the fact we still have the LTV fleet (minus 166215 & 150002) to maintain!

We ain't the TARDIS, that's for sure!!!

What's happened to the starship 002 then? Not blown up again has it?

 

[superalbs]

What's happened to the starship 002 then? Not blown up again has it?

Relocated to Bristol St Philip's Marsh.

 

[spark001uk]

Relocated to Bristol St Philip's Marsh.

Ah ok. I'm assuming the drivers won't need much training on that, if any, if they're already signed off on the /1 & /2? Or will they?

 

[swt_passenger]

What's happened to the starship 002 then? Not blown up again has it?

Has moved to the west permanently, the move was reported last week in the "Turbo to the west" thread

 

[SWT_USER]

The situation at Hanwell really needs resolving. HC services all cancelled this morning due to a signal failure seemingly affecting only them.

A full (3 coach only :roll GWR 165 stopping isn't good enough as a replacement when it leaves passengers behind - especially when you've got 8 coach trains with plenty of room passing through stopping everywhere else.

 

[JN114]

The situation at Hanwell really needs resolving. HC services all cancelled this morning due to a signal failure seemingly affecting only them.

A full (3 coach only :roll GWR 165 stopping isn't good enough as a replacement when it leaves passengers behind - especially when you've got 8 coach trains with plenty of room passing through stopping everywhere else.

The signal failure affecting only them was an ATP fault on the Airport branch. The 387 services called once it became daylight, 2S09/10 was to be the first circuit to do so, but Connect re-instated from 2T22 off Paddington at 0803.

Hanwell is a listed station, if it was that easy to just change the lighting it would have been done when they did the other stations in the summer. It isn't that easy, and that's why November 2017 has been given as an estimated completion date.

 

[SWT_USER]

Thanks JN114. I do appreciate your responses even though as a service user it is very frustrating!

Am i right in thinking that since the 387's are running all day HC are unable to turn at Hayes anymore? If so that just exacerbates the problem.