Class 387

[D365]

Anybody else feeling as if the Electrostar is like the Zonda of the railways? Every build since the 379 is (unofficially) said to be the last - but Derby keeps coming out with more!

 

[Townsend Hook]

Yes, but why the new 387s for Corby, rather than Class 375/6 or 377/5? The latter being a fleet Cauldwell is very familiar with.

I'm sure it wouldn't take long for the Cauldwell staff to acclimatise to a slightly different variety of Electrostar.

 

[Bigfoot]

Island Line, to supplement the 442s in peak season.

This is the post of the year.

 

[D365]

I'm sure it wouldn't take long for the Cauldwell staff to acclimatise to a slightly different variety of Electrostar.

My main issue with the '387/4' being allocated to 'CorPan' is if a third order for 387s is indeed carried out. Unless GWR or Southern takes on another 20 units, would not the third order causate another isolated Electrostar fleet among a (probably) greater EMU fleet? Or am I making too big of a deal of the matter?

 

[387star]

Replace southerns 313s?

 

[Julian G]

Anybody else feeling as if the Electrostar is like the Zonda of the railways? Every build since the 379 is (unofficially) said to be the last - but Derby keeps coming out with more!

I can see what you mean by Zonda of the railways. The Electrostar family doesn't seem to want to close down.



On the topic of 387s, test paths have started showing up for the 387/2s testing.

 

[swt_passenger]

Replace southerns 313s?

Why would they want to do that?

 

[WatcherZero]

If I can remember back a few pages, is there not an option for a similar number of vehicles to be procured? These would seem to be a more likely candidate for Corby (assuming they do exist and I haven't just invented them).

Yes 20 with an option for another 20, though without the first order the production line would have closed, also is a suggestion that these may be delivered before the 8 for great western with delivery rescheduled because they arent needed for a while yet at GW. Another 6 months before delivery would more easily fit the requirements timeline for EMT or Great Western.

Why would they want to do that?

Franchise requirement the 313's have to be replaced near the end, five years into the great northern franchise ahead of 2020 date. The remaining 20 could be for them, the talk is the 313 replacement process will begin in December, not sure if they are suitable 313 replacement though performace wise, someone mentioned restricted height? And wouldnt they require more than 20?

 

[Class377/5]

Yes 20 with an option for another 20, though without the first order the production line would have closed, also is a suggestion that these may be delivered before the 8 for great western with delivery rescheduled because they arent needed for a while yet at GW.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Franchise requirement the 313's have to be replaced near the end of the five year franchise ahead of 2020 date. The remaining 20 could be for them, the talk is the 313 replacement process will begin in December.

Your confused over the 313 fleets. There are seperate GTR 313 fleets, one is dual voltage and working on the GN due for replacement by December 2018. The other is DC only units used South Coast will not be replaced during the GTR franchise.

What's being announced in December on WNXX is the winning for the GN should be announced.

There is no franchise requirement to replace the South Coast 313s. That will be the next franchise.

 

[jon0844]

We so often hear about height restrictions on the Northern City line but I think it has been proven to be a myth.

 

[47802]

Why IS GN 313 replacement even been talked about doesn't that require 6 car units and have a specific tender, and while I guess 387's could work Inner suburban routes they are clearly more suited Outer Suburban/Mid Distance routes.

This looks like an fairly opportunistic purchase by Porterbrook although they presumably identified potential customers before purchase, and would assume they got them for a fairly good price and presumably will be a fairly standard 387 build with very few changes from what's being currently built, so for those that don't like the current seating in them probably better hope they don't end up on TPX Anglo Scottish services

 

[jopsuk]

To be clear, my fantasy stock merrygoround for these would be:

the 20 additional 387s go to GWR in place of the 21 365s (uniform fleet)

All 40 365s go to Southeastern, fitted to be dual voltage and refurbished with air conditioning, power points, wifi etc

19 375s get refitted to the same spec as the 377/5 and sent to the GN.

SE then don't get 319s, having had a net gain of 21 units anyway.

 

[Class377/5]

Why IS GN 313 replacement even been talked about doesn't that require 6 car units and have a specific tender, and while I guess 387's could work Inner suburban routes they are clearly more suited Outer Suburban/Mid Distance routes.

This looks like an fairly opportunistic purchase by Porterbrook although they presumably identified potential customers before purchase, and would assume they got them for a fairly good price and presumably will be a fairly standard 387 build with very few changes from what's being currently built, so for those that don't like the current seating in them probably better hope they don't end up on TPX Anglo Scottish services

God why the GN 313 replacement is being talked about as that's 150 carriages in one order and the tender for it went out a while ago.

 

[D365]

To be clear, my fantasy stock merrygoround for these would be:

the 20 additional 387s go to GWR in place of the 21 365s (uniform fleet)

All 40 365s go to Southeastern, fitted to be dual voltage and refurbished with air conditioning, power points, wifi etc

19 375s get refitted to the same spec as the 377/5 and sent to the GN.

SE then don't get 319s, having had a net gain of 21 units anyway.

If you're proposing a full refurbishment for the Class 365 fleet, I'd much rather they remain on GN However I am lead to believe that the Class 377 will be operationally superior on Kings Lynn services, being equipped with cab gangways, SDO and the like.

If a duplicate order for a further 20 Class 387s is fulfilled, however, I wouldn't mind all 40 Porterbrook units on the GN-KX

 

[Peter Sarf]

God why the GN 313 replacement is being talked about as that's 150 carriages in one order and the tender for it went out a while ago.

GN into Morrgate is to be 25 six car units iirc. Been wondering what's happening with that. Could it be a variant of the 387s ?. Depends if electrostar units stretch to six cars ?. Then they would (only) require butchering to fit down the tunnel to Moorgate. Thats all .

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Please, no 365's back on SouthEastern....:roll:

I'd prefer a 319 any day if a 375/377 didn't turn up

 

[D365]

Please, no 365's back on SouthEastern...

Ouch. I'm not sure if I should take that personally. We swear by them here on the Great Northern.

 

[Class 466]

365s would be useful on SE - but only to replace 465/9s so they can return to Metro Working, and not in trade for 375/6s that are required for mainline workings!

 

[jon0844]

Please, no 365's back on SouthEastern....:roll:

I'd prefer a 319 any day if a 375/377 didn't turn up

Aren't 365s pretty reliable? Then look at the four 319s that LM got - which never seem to work.

I think a reliable train is more important than anything else for most people. Of course it's not wrong to want both comfort AND reliability. Even on the railway!

 

[47802]

GN into Morrgate is to be 25 six car units iirc. Been wondering what's happening with that. Could it be a variant of the 387s ?. Depends if electrostar units stretch to six cars ?. Then they would (only) require butchering to fit down the tunnel to Moorgate. Thats all .

A 378 variant of the Electrostar would be more appropriate but its much more likely that Bombardier have offered an Aventra variant for their bid assuming it can fit down the tunnel

I still think Northern may fit into this directly or indirectly, we know that they need Regional Express units and a 323 replacement. In either case 319's would likely require substancial and expensive mods for either or both roles.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

A 378 variant of the Electrostar would be more appropriate but its much more likely that Bombardier have offered an Aventra variant for their bid assuming it can fit down the tunnel

The bodyshell isn't dramatically different, from early indications, but as it's all of modular construction, it's presumably going to be possible to change the roof structure and lower the overall height of the vehicle.

 

[whoosh]

God why the GN 313 replacement is being talked about as that's 150 carriages in one order and the tender for it went out a while ago.

Who has bid for these, do we know?

 

[JaJaWa]

I shouldn't have brought Moorgate metro up

Any other lines that TfL could be taking over next year?

 

[jon0844]

I am pretty sure the Moorgate trains will be based on whatever Bombardier is offering today and will have an interior akin to what will come to LO users to/from Cheshunt, i.e. a mix of seating akin to the S-Stock.

That should offer a substantial increase in passenger capacity, especially if we get 3tph all day, including weekends, meaning 6tph from Alexandra Palace into London (and more in the peaks).

 

[ert47]

At risk of going on a tangent, what are the odds of the additional 387s ending up with C2C? They're looking at an expansion of their fleet, but not sure how useful having a microfleet would be on a *relatively* small network. Could compatibility be worked with the 357s?

 

[swt_passenger]

At risk of going on a tangent, what are the odds of the additional 387s ending up with C2C? They're looking at an expansion of their fleet, but not sure how useful having a microfleet would be on a *relatively* small network. Could compatibility be worked with the 357s?

The c2c order is supposed to be for only 17 units, but if this was already known to be for for c2c, or any other existing purpose (such as TfL Rail who already have 276 vehicles on order) then why would it be explained by Porterbrook as being speculative and for future electrification projects?

 

[D365]

At risk of going on a tangent, what are the odds of the additional 387s ending up with C2C? They're looking at an expansion of their fleet, but not sure how useful having a microfleet would be on a *relatively* small network. Could compatibility be worked with the 357s?

The c2c order is supposed to be for only 17 units, but if this was already known to be for for c2c, or any other existing purpose (such as TfL Rail who already have 276 vehicles on order) then why would it be explained by Porterbrook as being speculative and for future electrification projects?

Perhaps c2c might be the recipient if a repeat order goes ahead? Porterbrook are, of course, owners of the 46-strong Class 357/0 fleet.

 

[87015]

The c2c order is supposed to be for only 17 units, but if this was already known to be for for c2c, or any other existing purpose (such as TfL Rail who already have 276 vehicles on order) then why would it be explained by Porterbrook as being speculative and for future electrification projects?

Porterbrook will want a bidding war once they are finished in London, so will be touting around for the next use not the first. Of course they've described it in terms which work best for their PR!

 

[Stow]

Don't think anybody has mentioned that this order has resulted in some additional EMU 'float' on the market whilst the future of many midlife EMU's is in the balance, with Porterbrook going back to their approach with Tubostar units 10 years ago and providing commercial options for operators. Surely this is a good thing, and is what the Govt. want?

 

[D365]

Don't think anybody has mentioned that this order has resulted in some additional EMU 'float' on the market whilst the future of many midlife EMU's is in the balance, with Porterbrook going back to their approach with Tubostar units 10 years ago and providing commercial options for operators. Surely this is a good thing, and is what the Govt. want?

I am quite aware that it seems a number of soon-to-be-liberated BR-built EMUs are, for the time being, to find themselves without a home... It'll keep Angel Trains (Class 317) and Eversholt (Class 313, 315, 321) on their toes, if they want to squeeze more life out of their fleets; that much is for sure.