Class 387

[Skimble19]

Why not go the whole way and do what they're doing on the posters.. Just put all four logos on and really confuse people

 

[Class377/5]

I didn't think that was going to be a public facing brand?

Ah that was more me not giving an answer to you than an actual plan.

 

[4-COR 3142]

Is there any likelyhood that the test runs will run over the weekend at all?

 

[trainmania100]

Is there any likelyhood that the test runs will run over the weekend at all?

At the moment as far as I'm aware
Monday and Friday to Crewe on WCML
Tues Wed Thurs too Brighton on DC
Never seen them on weekends

 

[Class377/5]

387202/203 a spin out to Today. 203 first trip out.

 

[FQ]

Folks the GN will see the following fleets in 2018

21x 365
19x 377
25-ish Moorgate replacement units (ITT now out)
lots of 700s

And back onto topic of the 387s, here's the new diagrams...

387 24 diagrams from the May timetable changes are as follows...

(Note that they aren't currently all being filled as expected)

301/302
5W02 05+00 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1W02 05.30 Brighton to Bedford
1W15 08.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W26 11.08 Brighton to Bedford
ATTACH
1W37 13.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W96 16.54 Brighton to Bedford
5Y96 19+32 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings

303/304
5W04 05+15 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
2W23 08.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W30 11.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W43 13.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
1W92 16.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W57 18.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W68 21.30 Brighton to Bedford
5G68 00+18 Bedford to Bedford CS

305/306
5W06 05+30 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1W06 06.04 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W39 14.24 Bedford to Brighton
1B46 17.26 Brighton to London Bridge
1B51 18.43 London Bridge to Brighton
2W64 19.56 Brighton to Bedford
2W79 22.42 Bedford to Three Bridges

307
5Y05 04+51 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W05 05.18 Bedford to Brighton
1W87 08.00 Brighton to Bedford
SPILT
5W87 10+42 Bedford to Bedford CS
ATTACH
1W37 13.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W96 16.54 Brighton to Bedford
5Y96 19+32 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings

308/309
5Y05 04+51 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W05 05.18 Bedford to Brighton
1W87 08.00 Brighton to Bedford
SPILT
1W25 10.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W36 13.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 16.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W60 19.30 Brighton to Bedford
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+28 Brighton to Lovers Walk

310/311/312
5Y13 07+22 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W13 07.48 Bedford to Brighton
1W24 10.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W35 13.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W94 16.24 Brighton to Bedford
5Y94 19+02 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings

313/314
5G91 02+31 Bedford CS to Bedford
2W91 02.42 Bedford to Brighton
1B00 05.48 Brighton to London Bridge
1B05 07.11 London Bridge to Brighton
1W16 08.36 Brighton to Bedford
1W27 11.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W38 14.08 Brighton to Bedford
1H95 16.50 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G63 18.30 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1W65 20.22 Bedford to Brighton
2W80 23.36 Brighton to Bedford
5W80 02+38 Bedford to Bedford CS

315/316
5G93 02+46 Bedford CS to Bedford via North End Siding
2W93 03.42 Bedford to Brighton
1W08 06.19 Brighton to Bedford
1W19 09.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W30 12.08 Brighton to Bedford
1W41 14.54 Bedford to Brighton
1B48 17.56 Brighton to London Bridge
1B53 19.12 London Bridge to Brighton
5B53 20+34 Brighton to Lovers Walk

317/318
5G03 03+28 Bedford CS to Bedford
2W03 03.42 Bedford to Brighton
1W81 06.57 Brighton to Bedford
2W27 09.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W34 12.14 Three Bridges to Brighton
2W47 14.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G52 19+28 Bedford North End Siding
5W52 20+12 Bedford North End Siding to Bedford CS

319/320
5G01 04+04 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W01 04.16 Bedford to Brighton
1W83 07.22 Brighton to Bedford
5G23 10+00 Bedford to Bedford via North End Siding
1W23 10.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W34 13.08 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 15.50 Bedford to Brighton
1W56 18.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W69 21.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W69 00+14 Brighton to Lovers Walk

321/322
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G04 04+34 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W03 04.46 Bedford to Brighton
1W14 07.48 Brighton to Bedford
2W31 10.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W38 13.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
1H66 15.40 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G79 17.30 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1W61 19.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W72 22.30 Brighton to Bedford
5G72 01+28 Bedford to Bedford CS

323/324
5G83 06+20 Bedford CS to Bedford
1H83 0.34 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G63 08.02 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1W21 09.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W32 12.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W43 15.24 Bedford to Brighton
1B50 18.28 Brighton to London Bridge
1B55 19.42 London Bridge to Brighton
1W66 21.02 Brighton to Bedford
5G66 23+48 Bedford to Bedford CS

Are the diagrams above still the current Thameslink ones?

 

[Class377/5]

There's 26 diagrams at present.

 

[FQ]

Thanks. Do you know what they are?

 

[southern442]

Apologies if this has been covered previously, but where are the GN 317's going?

 

[Class377/5]

Thanks. Do you know what they are?

Yes but they change in a few weeks so may try and repost them then. Above diagrams are good IIRC just an additional pair of units booked to be our as well.

 

[swt_passenger]

​

Apologies if this has been covered previously, but where are the GN 317's going?

It has been asked a few times, but never answered IIRC.

It is always possible that they'll just become part of some vast stockpile of off-lease, but rather elderly, EMUs. There might not be enough possible cascades to go round once the entire 700 and 345 fleets are in service...

 

[FQ]

Yes but they change in a few weeks so may try and repost them then. Above diagrams are good IIRC just an additional pair of units booked to be our as well.

Thanks. I'm heading out on the 27th of Nov.

 

[physics34]

​

It has been asked a few times, but never answered IIRC.

It is always possible that they'll just become part of some vast stockpile of off-lease, but rather elderly, EMUs. There might not be enough possible cascades to go round once the entire 700 and 345 fleets are in service...

can we see them and the 313s and 315s being scrapped from 2018?. It would be a shame, but they will be pretty surplus, especially as electrification has been put on hold in some places.

 

[RobShipway]

can we see them and the 313s and 315s being scrapped from 2018?. It would be a shame, but they will be pretty surplus, especially as electrification has been put on hold in some places.

Not sure how much in the way of Branch routes would be electrified by the time the class 317's are surplus, but I can see them either working on new electrified branch lines or some of them working alongside their class 318 cousins in some form in Scotland.

 

[ScotGG]

can we see them and the 313s and 315s being scrapped from 2018?. It would be a shame, but they will be pretty surplus, especially as electrification has been put on hold in some places.

Those that are third rail can go to some quiet SE lines (branches?) to free up networkers for longer metro trains. SE has unconfirmed plans of getting 25x 377/1s in 2018/19. Given how the franchise is treated recently I'm sceptical, but hopefully it does, but is it enough? The Metro routes really need to be fully 12-car at peaks in the near future, Crossrail or no Crossrail. The Vic routes 8 or even 10 if that's possible.

 

[swt_passenger]

Those that are third rail can go to some quiet SE lines (branches?) to free up networkers for longer metro trains. SE has unconfirmed plans of getting 25x 377/1s in 2018/19. Given how the franchise is treated recently I'm sceptical, but hopefully it does, but is it enough? The Metro routes really need to be fully 12-car at peaks in the near future, Crossrail or no Crossrail. The Vic routes 8 or even 10 if that's possible.

The 25 X 377 to SE is about as confirmed as it usually gets, it was stated in the DfT's TSGN franchise ITT and franchise agreement. I think it even has a date shown but I'd need to look it up...

Of course having now found an online version of the franchise agreement the entire rolling stock section has since been redacted...

 

[physics34]

The 255 X 377 to SE is about as confirmed as it usually gets, it was stated in the DfT's TSGN franchise agreement. I think it even has a date shown but I'd need to look it up...

Of course having now found an online version the entire rolling stock section has since been redacted...

I've never ever seen it documented about these units going to SE, but of course we know there will be surplus 377s when the 700s are all in service.

 

[D365]

The 255 X 377 to SE is about as confirmed as it usually gets...

Not sure about it, there aren't all that many Class 377s

 

[swt_passenger]

Not sure about it, there aren't all that many Class 377s

I've fixed the original now...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've never ever seen it documented about these units going to SE, but of course we know there will be surplus 377s when the 700s are all in service.

It was definitely shown in the TSGN Franchise ITT, quite explicitly, although it didn't state a sub type, it is from December 2017. There have been many past discussions, and a number of posters have argued that it would naturally be 377/1s as the numbers fit, however that aspect is probably speculation.

Here's an edited extract:

5.4.3 Rolling stock

(A) REQUIREMENT

The Department requires a Franchisee who will:
[snipped other stuff]
...sub-lease 100 Class 377 vehicles (in 4-car formation, not being dual-voltage vehicles), at cost, to the Southeastern franchise. The terms and timing of the sub-lease will need to be agreed between the Franchisee and the operator of the Southeastern franchise, and approved by the Secretary of State. Bidders should assume that the sub-lease will be a dry lease, with the sub-leased units needing to be in service with the Southeastern franchise from the Timetable Change Date in December 2017, and that this will be mirrored by an equivalent requirement in the future Franchise Agreements for the Southeastern franchise;

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/245041/invitation-to-tender.pdf

 

[Stats]

It is a priced option in the Southeastern agreement to sublease from the TSGN operator [redacted] × 4 car class 377/1 units from December 2017. The priced option can be called by the Secretary of State no later than 1 May 2016.

 

[ScotGG]

Thanks all for the refresher - I had forgotten the exact details. So we'll only know if confirmed by May 2016. And the saga of class 375s moving from SE to Corby routes is still ongoing. 20 were likely to go, then the pause made that unlikely, but now its on again as the first stage of MML electrification by 2019/20, I believe?

Unless the recent class 387 order means they will now stay, giving SE a net gain of 25 units, which could be enough for full 12-car peak metro running, excluding those that call at Woolwich Dockyard of course?

 

[JamesRowden]

Thanks all for the refresher - I had forgotten the exact details. So we'll only know if confirmed by May 2016. And the saga of class 375s moving from SE to Corby routes is still ongoing. 20 were likely to go, then the pause made that unlikely, but now its on again as the first stage of MML electrification by 2019/20, I believe?

Unless the recent class 387 order means they will now stay, giving SE a net gain of 25 units, which could be enough for full 12-car peak metro running, excluding those that call at Woolwich Dockyard of course?

The 75mph top speed of the 465s means that replacing them with 375/377s on the Maidstone East line, which is being upgraded to a minimum maximum speed of 80mph, would seem desirable. 375/377s might also be useful for services between Tunbridge Wells and London since they would allow 12-car operation by having SDO.

 

[Class 466]

Thanks all for the refresher - I had forgotten the exact details. So we'll only know if confirmed by May 2016. And the saga of class 375s moving from SE to Corby routes is still ongoing. 20 were likely to go, then the pause made that unlikely, but now its on again as the first stage of MML electrification by 2019/20, I believe?

Unless the recent class 387 order means they will now stay, giving SE a net gain of 25 units, which could be enough for full 12-car peak metro running, excluding those that call at Woolwich Dockyard of course?

375s going to Corby services was only ever a rumour created by Modern Railways Magazine. Southeastern need all 112 of their 375s, with most of them in use every day- removing them from the franchise would come at a cost.

 

[RobShipway]

Is it possible that it will be the newly ordered class 387's that go to SouthEastern. The reason I ask this question, is that the details above state 4-car formation, not being dual-voltage vehicles, which yes could be 20 units from the 64 units within class 377/1 or it could be that the 387/4's will be built as DC only units, but with pantograph bay should conversion to dual voltage or just to use AC power in the future be required?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Is it possible that it will be the newly ordered class 387's that go to SouthEastern. The reason I ask this question, is that the details above state 4-car formation, not being dual-voltage vehicles, which yes could be 20 units from the 64 units within class 377/1 or it could be that the 387/4's will be built as DC only units, but with pantograph bay should conversion to dual voltage or just to use AC power in the future be required?

Why would they use an incompatible unit?

It makes more sense for 377's to be used. They are effectively the same train as the 375's

 

[Class377/5]

Why would they use an incompatible unit?

It makes more sense for 377's to be used. They are effectively the same train as the 375's

Agreed. The only only major differences between the 377/1 and 375s is the cameras on the side.

The 387s and 37x are sigificantly different physically that the two cannot carry passengers workout rewiring one of the fleets.

 

[trainmania100]

Looks like there was a problem with todays 387/2 testing, it ran straight back to bletchley

 

[LBSCR Times]

Looks like there was a problem with todays 387/2 testing, it ran straight back to bletchley

Nothing wrong with the units, it was signalling problems further south.

 

[deltic08]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P91094/2015/11/12/advanced

Running as this today. Although the headcode seems to be 511N.

This is a surprise to me as I thought these units were to be DC only

 

[RobShipway]

This is a surprise to me as I thought these units were to be DC only

I think that you will find that is from the 387/2 testing and those trains are dual voltage.