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Coronavirus: Is this the end of physical cash? Will we go completely electronic?

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Mutant Lemming

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Maybe being an old Luddite I just don't get it - but why the rush to have every single aspect of your life committed to a corporation/government (and by default these days the Chinese Communist party's) mainframe? I know so much of it has become unavoidable but the taint of control offered to those in power by eliminating cash is so vast as not to be ignored. Using cash is one of the few basic freedoms we have left once that has gone we really are "owned" by the 'card providers'.
 
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najaB

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Using cash is one of the few basic freedoms we have left once that has gone we really are "owned" by the 'card providers'.
While I understand the sentiment, there is *nothing* that I can buy with cash that I have any problem at all with the 'card providers' or 'the man' knowing that I have bought. Naturally, your milage may vary.
 

Bletchleyite

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My Dad phoned our local Newsagents this morning wanting to pay for the daily paper delivered each day. They could not take card payments over the phone, though they do take cards at the counter in the shop. But they were happy to receive a cheque. So I took a cheque round when I went out for my Boris walk this afternoon...

Crikey, the 1970s called....:)
 

Mutant Lemming

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While I understand the sentiment, there is *nothing* that I can buy with cash that I have any problem at all with the 'card providers' or 'the man' knowing that I have bought. Naturally, your milage may vary.

Best make sure you keep on the good side of the 'card providers' then lest they ever decide your politics/beliefs don't fit their agenda.
 

Bletchleyite

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Best make sure you keep on the good side of the 'card providers' then lest they ever decide your politics/beliefs don't fit their agenda.

Unless you keep a grand under the pillow, that's true of your bank too if you want to be able to draw any of your cash out!

If you do keep a grand under the pillow, either you're in tin-foil hat territory or up to no good.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Unless you keep a grand under the pillow, that's true of your bank too if you want to be able to draw any of your cash out!

If you do keep a grand under the pillow, either you're in tin-foil hat territory or up to no good.
The very obvious difference between withdrawing cash and buying things is that the card providers have no idea how you are spending it - while you may be very happy for that info to belong to any organisation that pays for it some people do prefer to keep some elements of privacy to their lives without interference from targeted advertising / state / CCP nosiness...whatever. It's a question of choice and many appear to want that choice taken away from all of us.
 

Domh245

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The very obvious difference between withdrawing cash and buying things is that the card providers have no idea how you are spending it - while you may be very happy for that info to belong to any organisation that pays for it some people do prefer to keep some elements of privacy to their lives without interference from targeted advertising / state / CCP nosiness...whatever. It's a question of choice and many appear to want that choice taken away from all of us.

Quite what they can do with the fact I spent £19.98 with "Amznmktplace" or £16.35 at "Lidl GB Nottingham" I don't know, but I somehow don't think it'd be anything useful.
 

Bald Rick

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Are they completely cashless or mostly cashless? I ask because I've seen a few where there is a manual checkout (for selling cigarettes, alcohol and lottery) but it's often not manned unless a customer goes over to use it.

Only self service tills of the smaller “card only” variety, where you can get more tills in per given area of floorspace, which helps the customer throughput. Also has the benefit of no scales, so no “unexpected items in bagging area”. I always use them if possible.
 

Hadders

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There are some branches of supermarkets in London that are already card only - typically the ‘Metro’ size versions in the busy areas, where throughput is quicker with card only self service tills than any other form of till.

Here's a cashless one on Holborn.

1589237464035.png
 

LancasterRed

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Right, this is an area I've studied in and without a doubt, COVID-19 has sped up the transition into a more technological society. A lot of the infrastructure and technology is already in place and being used but is not widespread as of yet due to resistance from technophobes and traditionalists.

A cashless society, stemming from a developmental one, represents a utopic future (per Braun) where transactions are more efficient and money is more secure. In fact, the debate revolving around the security of money is the likeliest reason as to why we will transition to a cashless society. COVID-19 is, as aforementioned, the trigger to speed up this transition, rather than the cause of it. Secure, encrypted money is less likely to be lost, hence in part the rise of bitcoin and mining.

I understand this isn't entirely on topic as I don't have access to the entirety of my writings on technological futures to hand, but I hope this was a different way of looking at it. You may not have access to many academic articles but ResearchGate is available and you can click on the PDF links when searching on Google Scholar to see different views ranging throughout academia. However any specific questions I can have a go at answering.
 

Jayden99

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How is this allowed to happen? Is it even legal? Why is my money not acceptable? I would just walk out of the store with my goods if they didn't want my cash. What else could I do? I don't have any cards :(
To be fair they make it pretty obvious with the massive sign by the front door. In Central London there would doubtless be another store that tou could go to less than 2 minutes away
 

Domh245

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How is this allowed to happen? Is it even legal? Why is my money not acceptable? I would just walk out of the store with my goods if they didn't want my cash. What else could I do? I don't have any cards :(

It's done because it's more convenient for the store. They can have smaller checkouts and don't need the cash handling infrastructure
Yes it's legal.
You could try walking out the store with the goods, but as you haven't paid for them, they aren't yours and it would be stealing.
What can you do - get a debit card, they're not exactly difficult to obtain.
 

LAX54

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Maybe being an old Luddite I just don't get it - but why the rush to have every single aspect of your life committed to a corporation/government (and by default these days the Chinese Communist party's) mainframe? I know so much of it has become unavoidable but the taint of control offered to those in power by eliminating cash is so vast as not to be ignored. Using cash is one of the few basic freedoms we have left once that has gone we really are "owned" by the 'card providers'.

Ever seen the look of panic in a Supermarkety, when the 'system' crashes ! LOL :) then they say, sorry, cash only right now
 

najaB

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How is this allowed to happen? Is it even legal?
Yes. On what basis would you expect it to be illegal?
Why is my money not acceptable?
Your money is 100% acceptable. Just not in the form of pieces of paper or metal.
I would just walk out of the store with my goods if they didn't want my cash.
Have fun down at the police station...
 

Bald Rick

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What else could I do?

1) go to M&S over the road, or Sainsbury’s a few doors down.
2) get a card. I’ve had one since I was 14 (rather a long time ago). My daughter has had one since she was 12. It’s not difficult.
 

LAX54

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Quite what they can do with the fact I spent £19.98 with "Amznmktplace" or £16.35 at "Lidl GB Nottingham" I don't know, but I somehow don't think it'd be anything useful.

I think you will find that they know a lot more than just Amznmktplace, that is what is on your statement, God knows what else is creamed off en route, It's like the RING doorbell system, it is recorded by Amazon 24/7 and kept (using the wifi the doorbell uses) mind you how long it's kept for I do not know.
 

Non Multi

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How is this allowed to happen? Is it even legal? Why is my money not acceptable? I would just walk out of the store with my goods if they didn't want my cash. What else could I do? I don't have any cards :(
Because they can get away with it there. It's big business taking advantage of the local market (Central London, where else?) that think physical cash is old hat/beneath them.
 

Bletchleyite

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Because they can get away with it there. It's big business taking advantage of the local market (Central London, where else?) that think physical cash is old hat/beneath them.

It's a business making a decision appropriate to their customers. Given where it is located, I bet it was taking almost no cash whatsoever leading up to the decision.

If it was located in a rough estate in a Northern city I'd imagine quite different.
 

najaB

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It's big business taking advantage of the local market (Central London, where else?) that think physical cash is old hat/beneath them.
It's a business responding to their market. They obviously did the sums and decided that the income that they would lose was less than the savings that they would make.
 

yorkie

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The last time I used cash was to play football on 16th of March. That was over 8 weeks ago now.
 

Bald Rick

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I found a £20 note in a pair of shorts last week, and don’t know how I’m going to spend it.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Everything you consume, every item you purchase, every book you read, every subscription, political affiliation, every journey you make, recorded … it is all well and good when the 'power' is 'supposedly' working for you but one thing this virus situation has shown is just how easily that could change. Do you know how many CCP owned businesses you deal with ? - with the economies of the West being decimated don't be surprised to see that figure increase dramatically.
 

Dai Corner

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Everything you consume, every item you purchase, every book you read, every subscription, political affiliation, every journey you make, recorded … it is all well and good when the 'power' is 'supposedly' working for you but one thing this virus situation has shown is just how easily that could change. Do you know how many CCP owned businesses you deal with ? - with the economies of the West being decimated don't be surprised to see that figure increase dramatically.

To be honest, I'm not that bothered if British, American and German owned supermarkets know what I eat, the Council owned library and charitable bookshops know what books I've read, anyone knows that I subscribe to Private Eye or am a member of the British Computer Society, National Trust and 125 Group, or Scottish, Welsh, German, French and Spanish owned transport companies know where I've been.

I'm surprised you post on Internet forums though.
 

duffield

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It certainly is legal at present for Tesco to go cashless. But a lot of people seem to be ignoring the fact that if this became the norm in every supermarket it would be brutally hard on some groups. E.g. a genuinely homeless beggar who has managed to collect enough coins can currently buy (say) a half price Tesco sandwich for (say) £1.

No cash means no coins; or even if the coins still exist for other purposes, they are useless for buying food.

Do we just shrug and say 'sucks to be them'?
And if that's not acceptable what *do* we do?

It's all very well to say it shouldn't be like that and a solution will be found, but it *is* like that and I haven't seen any proper solutions yet; and if there are some good solutions being proposed I see *absolutely* no sign of them being adopted at present.

Remember, any solution involving cards/devices etc. is likely to fail for at least some homeless people (device/card rapidly lost/damaged/stolen). Anticipating 'yes but their money could be lost/stolen' - that is not the same, they will probably spend it before this happens and they can currently beg for more if it does happen. Getting their device/card replaced will be another challenge and the mentally ill and other groups may find it beyond them. Ideally they should not be on the streets, but they *are* and we have to deal with things as they are, not how we wish they were.

I believe that food stores, chemists and maybe other essentials should be *required* to take cash until a solution is found. But it looks like the current path is going to be the shrug and 'sucks to be them' one.
 

Bletchleyite

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It certainly is legal at present for Tesco to go cashless. But a lot of people seem to be ignoring the fact that if this became the norm in every supermarket it would be brutally hard on some groups. E.g. a genuinely homeless beggar who has managed to collect enough coins can currently buy (say) a half price Tesco sandwich for (say) £1.

Begging causes a lot of problems and I would prefer the issue of helping the homeless was done in a more targetted way by charities etc that caused being on the streets to cease to be a profitable endeavour. So I think this isn't "sucks to be you" but potentially quite positive.
 

Bald Rick

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It certainly is legal at present for Tesco to go cashless. But a lot of people seem to be ignoring the fact that if this became the norm in every supermarket it would be brutally hard on some groups. E.g. a genuinely homeless beggar who has managed to collect enough coins can currently buy (say) a half price Tesco sandwich for (say) £1.

Given how many people have now gone ‘cashless’, I’d be surprised if those asking for money on the street aren’t already seeing a significant downturn in income.

I’m fairly sure someone once posted here about a system used in Sweden where homeless people are given coats that are ‘tagged’, and if you want to give them money you do so through a system that donates (cashless) to the tag. The tag owner then can use that credit for buying food / shelter etc, and by extension not things that wouldn’t be helping their position. Not perfect I’m sure, but it seems there is a solution of sorts.
 
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