Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[Domh245]

Who is talking about "abandoning" anyone?
We will never be 100% safe, that is not how life works.

What's especially baffling is that the of the several people the poster knows, only one is poorly. Being infected with covid is completely unimportant if you're going to have a headache, runny nose and sore throat for a few days.

 

[Darandio]

Trouble is nearly everyone means 15million people who aren't protected so they mustn't be abandoned for the sake of the 45 million of us who are protected. Also lets not forget doesn't mean we are 100% safe as we ive posted above several people I know are double vaccinated yet have caught it so we need to a balance here so we don't end up going backwards.

Vaccination for the vulnerable was our way out. Vaccination for all adults was then our way out. I reluctantly had the damn thing and now wish I hadn't bothered because that wasn't good enough and if some people have their way it never will be.

It will never be 100% safe, it never even was before 2019 and that's life. Stop trying to dictate mine.

 

[Watershed]

The law is very clear, masks are not required.

The government has signalled its intention to scrap the general mask mandate on public transport.

But they have openly encouraged operators to introduce their own mandates through conditions of carriage.

Whilst it sounds like National Rail services will not have such a mandate (thank goodness!), I am sure there will be some operators that will decide in favour of a mandate. And that percentage will be rather higher than if the government hadn't made such a suggestion.

If the government considers it sufficiently "safe" to lift the general mask mandate, it should surely not be necessary to encourage operators to introduce them in their stead.

It's obvious they are trying to please everyone in their approach. In doing so, they are not really pleasing anyone - masktivists will be worried sick there is no longer a general mandate, and those in the opposite camp will be incensed that the government has given operators carte blanche to bring in their own mandates.

There was literally no impact on cases, admissions or deaths whatsoever when England brought them in. Have a look at a case graph and try to guess what date they were made a legal necessity. You can’t. It’s poor policy, the way most masks are worn makes not a toss of difference to health outcomes.

45 million people now have a vaccine. That’s good news and provides a good level of safety for nearly everyone.

Precisely my view. If this were really about preventing transmission to any sort of notable degree, why is there not a minimum required standard of FFP2 or FFP3? Why are pathetic little splash shields acceptable?

As far as I'm concerned, mask mandates in the way they've been implemented in the UK are pure security theatre - just like shops, restaurants etc. that insist you must sanitise your hands before entering - more than a year after it became clear that fomite transmission of Covid was negligible.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Avanti will announce masks to be worn on their services in Wales and Scotland from July 19 (ie from Chester or Carlisle).
From the Guardian: Masks to remain compulsory on London tube, buses and trains | London Underground | The Guardian

The potential for confusion was underlined as the Scottish government announced that mask-wearing would remain compulsory in indoor settings after 19 July. Operator Avanti, which runs trains between London and Scotland and Wales, will make announcements at the last stations in England informing passengers that masks will be mandatory for the rest of the journey.

 

[Watershed]

Unfortunately it sounds like TfL are pushing through a continued mask mandate. At the moment the suggestion is their Conditions of Carriage will be changed, but I'd have thought they would be better off continuing to (ab)use the facility to give a "safety instruction" under Byelaw 12, as that gives the right to prosecute and remove people from the railway.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Avanti will announce masks to be worn on their services in Wales and Scotland from July 19 (ie from Chester or Carlisle).
From the Guardian: Masks to remain compulsory on London tube, buses and trains | London Underground | The Guardian

Absolutely pathetic, I'm embarrassed to be Scottish.

Thank god I don't live there and to think I used to consider moving back when I got older as I thought it was more of a people country. Wow I was wrong.

 

[trebor79]

I feel very sorry for the various staff members of retail and transport who are going to be caught in the middle of this.

Either get rid of masks all-together or keep them mandatory until they are not “recommended”.

I don't see why there will be any problems. The law allows you to wear a mask if you wish or not wear one if you don't. What is the problem with that?

Exactly. The only staff who will encounter problems are those who try to enforce a law which mo longer exists.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Unfortunately it sounds like TfL are pushing through a continued mask mandate. At the moment the suggestion is their Conditions of Carriage will be changed, but I'd have thought they would be better off continuing to (ab)use the facility to give a "safety instruction" under Byelaw 12, as that gives the right to prosecute and remove people from the railway.

How can any of these companies be allowed to do this; its crazy.

What statistics are they going to privately monitor and what are there thresholds for changing the rules? What are their employees qualifications to set these parameters and to make decisions about them? ZERO

Absolutely mental

Exactly. The only staff who will encounter problems are those who try to enforce a law which mo longer exists.

Especially if there are no stops between England and the final stop. Are they going to make a special stop at Motherwell to boot you off.

 

[bramling]

We all want 2019 normal. Unfortunately the speed at which the delta variant is spreading means that even with the very high levels of vaccine efficacy we have achieved, a complete removal of restrictions and a return to normal social interaction will produce a big exit wave of hospital admissions and deaths. Clearly some railforum members believe that's a price worth paying to return to normal. But we need to recognise that this forum is not representative of the general view of the country.

I’m not sure this is the general view of the country. In many places life is essentially normal, though there seem to be distinct regional variations in attitude.

If people are *saying* in surveys they want restrictions, it’s strange that when it comes to *actions* a very considerable number of people aren’t acting this out in practice.

I’d explain some of this by virtue signalling, and certainly in some cases it will be one particular “restriction” which people don’t wish to see removed, that being the work from home. Naturally people aren’t going to respond when asked with “I want restrictions to continue because I can’t be bothered to return to my workplace”.

I realise there *are* people who are genuinely still concerned, but I think the numbers are being over-represented.

Note that the above is an observation of what I see - I’m going to avoid commenting on the rights or wrongs of it.

 

[Ianno87]

I’d explain some of this by virtue signalling, and certainly in some cases it will be one particular “restriction” which people don’t wish to see removed, that being the work from home. Naturally people aren’t going to respond when asked with “I want restrictions to continue because I can’t be bothered to return to my workplace”.

How many times do you need to post this? Again and again and again and again.

Working from home is here to stay, because it is genuinely beneficial to so many peoples' work/life balance. The 9-5 daily commute for most office workers is dead and buried - consigned to history.

That doesn't mean that these people (at least the vast majority) want restrictions on everybody to carry on forever, so matter how many time you try and claim otherwise.

 

[Bertie the bus]

We all want 2019 normal. Unfortunately the speed at which the delta variant is spreading means that even with the very high levels of vaccine efficacy we have achieved, a complete removal of restrictions and a return to normal social interaction will produce a big exit wave of hospital admissions and deaths. Clearly some railforum members believe that's a price worth paying to return to normal. But we need to recognise that this forum is not representative of the general view of the country.

A complete removal of all restrictions will result in a wave of infections, hospitalisations and some deaths whenever it happens. That is the message that the public need to hear because it is going to happen at some point and happening in the summer when the hospitals are under less stress and are therefore more capable of dealing with it is the best time.

 

[VauxhallandI]

A complete removal of all restrictions will result in a wave of infections, hospitalisations and some deaths whenever it happens. That is the message that the public need to hear because it is going to happen at some point and happening in the summer when the hospitals are under less stress and are therefore more capable of dealing with it is the best time.

Yep it’s not rocket science but some people are hard of understanding

 

[HSTEd]

Where for?

Basically everywhere

 

[bramling]

Or just happy to not make a fuss and get on with things.

I’m not sure “not make a fuss and get on with things” is anything at all to brag about. There’s lessons from history on that score.

In general I have far more respect for people who are prepared to make a bit of a stand over what they believe to be correct, rather than those who just want to keep the peace. Appeasement has a habit of causing bigger issues in the long run, not least because of mission creep.

 

[MattA7]

Absolutely pathetic, I'm embarrassed to be Scottish.

Thank god I don't live there and to think I used to consider moving back when I got older as I thought it was more of a people country. Wow I was wrong.

unfortunately I do still live there I’ve considered moving down south before especially when all of this 2nd referendum nonsense started again but now I’m wishing more than ever that I moved.

 

[Mintona]

It’s never going to end.

 

[bramling]

The government has signalled its intention to scrap the general mask mandate on public transport.

But they have openly encouraged operators to introduce their own mandates through conditions of carriage.

Whilst it sounds like National Rail services will not have such a mandate (thank goodness!), I am sure there will be some operators that will decide in favour of a mandate. And that percentage will be rather higher than if the government hadn't made such a suggestion.

If the government considers it sufficiently "safe" to lift the general mask mandate, it should surely not be necessary to encourage operators to introduce them in their stead.

It's obvious they are trying to please everyone in their approach. In doing so, they are not really pleasing anyone - masktivists will be worried sick there is no longer a general mandate, and those in the opposite camp will be incensed that the government has given operators carte blanche to bring in their own mandates.


Precisely my view. If this were really about preventing transmission to any sort of notable degree, why is there not a minimum required standard of FFP2 or FFP3? Why are pathetic little splash shields acceptable?

As far as I'm concerned, mask mandates in the way they've been implemented in the UK are pure security theatre - just like shops, restaurants etc. that insist you must sanitise your hands before entering - more than a year after it became clear that fomite transmission of Covid was negligible.

It will be interesting to see what TfL choose to do. I’m surprised they haven’t made any effort to keep Tube train windows open, like Tyne & Wear Metro are doing, given how ventilation is apparently increasingly regarded as useful. Of course, there aren’t any political points for Khan by implementing that measure.

 

[VauxhallandI]

It will be interesting to see what TfL choose to do. I’m surprised they haven’t made any effort to keep Tube train windows open, like Tyne & Wear Metro are doing, given how ventilation is apparently increasingly regarded as useful. Of course, there aren’t any political points for Khan by implementing that measure.

Keeping the windows open underground to bring in all the harmful particles from the tunnels.

Ironically the masks might actually be of some use against the tunnel pollutants

 

[Darandio]

It’s never going to end.

Considering what you said the other day that's a dream scenario for you, isn't it?

 

[brad465]

I stumbled across the below comment in a BBC article about firms needing to decide on their own rules around masks that's about train operators, from someone claiming to work for one:

Firms left to decide own rules on face masks

Travel firms and others are setting out their own safety rules for when legal bindings lift.

www.bbc.co.uk

If what they say is true at least one operator appears to not be trying to keep the mandate going.

 

[nedchester]

From the Guardian: Masks to remain compulsory on London tube, buses and trains | London Underground | The Guardian

Sounds like a lot of bluster if it isn't going to be enforceable.........

 

[bramling]

How many times do you need to post this? Again and again and again and again.

Working from home is here to stay, because it is genuinely beneficial to so many peoples' work/life balance. The 9-5 daily commute for most office workers is dead and buried - consigned to history.

That doesn't mean that these people (at least the vast majority) want restrictions on everybody to carry on forever, so matter how many time you try and claim otherwise.

How many times do you need to post this? Again and again and again and again.

Working from home is here to stay, because it is genuinely beneficial to so many peoples' work/life balance. The 9-5 daily commute for most office workers is dead and buried - consigned to history.

That doesn't mean that these people (at least the vast majority) want restrictions on everybody to carry on forever, so matter how many time you try and claim otherwise.

So how do you explain the marked difference in opinion which seems to be present in the Home Counties area, where there’s clearly quite a bit more work from home than elsewhere?

Reality is there’s plenty of places where people are not fulfilling their full work remit whilst at home. These people know full well that this isn’t going to last forever.

 

[brad465]

So restrictions have caused record alcohol deaths, doubled depression sufferer numbers, exacerbated domestic abuse, increased neglect of other ailments getting diagnosed and more. Today we can add stalking instances rising during lockdown, with more than 80,000 offences recorded last year, but police action struggling to keep up:

Stalking rises during Covid pandemic - police

Over 80,000 incidents are recorded in 2020 in England and Wales - but arrests struggle to keep up.

www.bbc.co.uk

There has been a "significant increase" in stalking offences in England and Wales during the pandemic, police say.
The warning from the UK officer in charge of stalking issues comes as more than 80,000 incidents were recorded by forces last year.
But freedom of information requests by BBC News show arrests struggled to keep up - growing at half the rate of the rise in offences between 2019 and 2020.
A government spokesperson says protecting women is "a priority".
National lockdowns have made it much easier for stalkers to target victims in their homes, especially during the first in March 2020 when restrictions on exercise and shopping were at their most stringent, says Rachel Horman-Brown, a lawyer and chair of the stalking advocacy charity, Paladin.
Chris, 32, from London, says for the last six years of her life she has been stalked by a man she met briefly in a team meeting at a previous job.
Despite the fleeting acquaintance, she says he has inundated her with messages ever since and even contacted colleagues about her more than 2,000 times despite them both leaving the company.

Some messages call her a sex worker or allege intimate relationships with people she has never even met, while others passionately declare his love for her.

These are the sorts of stories/issues that need to be raised hard and regularly should restrictions ever be reinstated.

 

[trebor79]

Sounds like a lot of bluster if it isn't going to be enforceable.........

It's just Khan trying to do a Sturgeon.

 

[Failed Unit]

Sounds like a lot of bluster if it isn't going to be enforceable.........

It is also going to cause confusion that you can travel between Finsbury Park and Moorgate without one, but not Highbury and Islington and Richmond. Trains are trains to many so they won’t understand that it isn’t ok on TfL ones but not is on others. some routes with 2 operating companies will be interesting such as out of Liverpool Street.

 

[big_rig]

Sounds like a lot of bluster if it isn't going to be enforceable.........

I am also not sure whether the TfL gateline staff will be doing much enforcing given in my experience over the last few months or so of regular commuting the proportion of them identifying as exempt or wearing their masks under their chin is significantly larger than that in the travelling public..! I would estimate ~90% public compliance and maybe 60% TfL staff on your regular weekday overground & tube commute..

 

[MattA7]

I will imagine a lot of pubs and nightclubs near the Scottish border will have excellent trade as large numbers of Scots (especially the younger generation) are already planing trips to England to escape Sturgeons reign of tyrant measures.

 

[takno]

I will imagine a lot of pubs and nightclubs near the Scottish border will have excellent trade as large numbers of Scots (especially the younger generation) are already planing trips to England to escape Sturgeons reign of tyrant measures.

Much as I'm far too old for such nonsense I'd love to go to a club again. Not sure I'd love it enough to want to experience the delights of clubbing in Berwick though

 

[NorthOxonian]

Much as I'm far too old for such nonsense I'd love to go to a club again. Not sure I'd love it enough to want to experience the delights of clubbing in Berwick though

If they don't mind spending an hour longer on the train, I'm sure us Geordies would give them a warm welcome!

(Until they start buying up all the cheap advances on the first trains of the day north...)

 

[Failed Unit]

Maybe not. But watch the flood of people hit Newcastle, Manchester and Liverpool considering it is fairs forknight starting on the 19th. I am sure Nicola will be patrolling Glasgow central.