Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[70014IronDuke]

Cl 37 makes up 30 minutes Barrow - Carlisle!

Is this really possible - and if it is, why are the trains not more tightly timed?

It appears that 2C49, the 11.38 Barrow - Carlisle, today left Barrow 29 late - arrived Workington RT, and Carlisle 1E

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y90453/2015/12/17/advanced

Some of this would appear to be down to very smart station stops - maybe the guard asked all passengers nicely to close the doors? But equally, other minutes were saved by some very quick (relatively) running.

 

[Chester025]

Cl 37 makes up 30 minutes Barrow - Carlisle!

Is this really possible - and if it is, why are the trains not more tightly timed?

It appears that 2C49, the 11.38 Barrow - Carlisle, today left Barrow 29 late - arrived Workington RT, and Carlisle 1E

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y90453/2015/12/17/advanced

Some of this would appear to be down to very smart station stops - maybe the guard asked all passengers nicely to close the doors? But equally, other minutes were saved by some very quick (relatively) running.

It ran non-stop Barrow - Sellafield.

 

[grumblingalong]

Can anyone give me a hand with the diagrams? I'll be up that way on the 21st of March and want the LHCS over a pacer/other for the trip. I have these diagrams:

Diagram 1

2C32 05:15 Carlisle - Preston (a. 09:35)
2C47 10:04 Preston - Barrow (a. 11:33)
2C41 14:37 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 17:28)
2C42 17:37 Carlisle - Barrow (a. 20:29)
5C42 ECS 20:38 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sdgs. (a. 20:41)

(moves to Diagram 2 the following day).


Diagram 2

2C33 05:46 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 08:33)
2C40 08:42 Carlisle - Barrow (a. 11:30)
2C49 11:38 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 14:26)
2C34 14:35 Carlisle - Barrow (a. 17:22)
2C47 17:31 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 20:31)

Are both diagrams covered by LHCS each day or just the one?

 

[PHILIPE]

Can anyone give me a hand with the diagrams? I'll be up that way on the 21st of March and want the LHCS over a pacer/other for the trip. I have these diagrams:

Diagram 1

2C32 05:15 Carlisle - Preston (a. 09:35)
2C47 10:04 Preston - Barrow (a. 11:33)
2C41 14:37 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 17:28)
2C42 17:37 Carlisle - Barrow (a. 20:29)
5C42 ECS 20:38 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sdgs. (a. 20:41)

(moves to Diagram 2 the following day).


Diagram 2

2C33 05:46 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 08:33)
2C40 08:42 Carlisle - Barrow (a. 11:30)
2C49 11:38 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 14:26)
2C34 14:35 Carlisle - Barrow (a. 17:22)
2C47 17:31 Barrow - Carlisle (a. 20:31)

Are both diagrams covered by LHCS each day or just the one?

If they cycle from one day into the next they must both be LHCS

 

[grumblingalong]

If they cycle from one day into the next they must both be LHCS

This was also my assumption, planning a 4 day trip as we speak and this will be pretty crucial.

 

[Karl]

This was also my assumption, planning a 4 day trip as we speak and this will be pretty crucial.

Just be aware that the Saturday diagram is a little different.

There's a full list of the diagrams in this RailUK forum thread here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478562&postcount=11

Enjoy.

 

[Aws87024]

If they cycle from one day into the next they must both be LHCS

This was also my assumption, planning a 4 day trip as we speak and this will be pretty crucial.

There's 2 loco hauled sets, that work the diagrams shown above. The "moves to Diagram 2 the following day" refers to the fact that digram 1 starts in Carlisle and finishes in Barrow. Digram 2 is the reverse starting in Barrow and finishing in Carlisle meaning what ever set works D1 then works D2 the next day.

 

[grumblingalong]

There's 2 loco hauled sets, that work the diagrams shown above. The "moves to Diagram 2 the following day" refers to the fact that digram 1 starts in Carlisle and finishes in Barrow. Digram 2 is the reverse starting in Barrow and finishing in Carlisle meaning what ever set works D1 then works D2 the next day.

That's what I had hoped, thanks for the confirmation! 0842 off Carlisle it is

 

[randyrippley]

just remember that no trip along the Cumbrian coast is complete without visits to the Ratty Arms and the Prince of Wales at Foxfield!

 

[Roose]

...and, at journey's end, the Duke and the Furness Railway outside the station on Abbey Road in Barrow

 

[47802]

just remember that no trip along the Cumbrian coast is complete without visits to the Ratty Arms and the Prince of Wales at Foxfield!

And the usual breakdowns, cancellations, late running, substitution by a unit etc

 

[grumblingalong]

Maybe I'll drop the Windermere trip off that day for a visit to the ale houses....thanks all!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Is the Ratty Arms still owned by the R&ER?

Haven't been out that way for a while.

 

[Roose]

It is.

 

[fowler9]

Looking at those diagrams I can do Liverpool to Carlisle and back via the Cumbrian coast in a day, is this correct? It is for a Northern Rail travel voucher I have burning a hole in my pocket.

 

[class17]

The Northern Rail travel voucher ticket gives a very good day out from Preston, including two loco hauled trains, on a circular to Carlisle from Preston

Preston - Barrow - Carlisle - Settle
Fish and Chips in a Fish and Chip restaurant, then walk across to Giggleswick for
Giggleswick - Lancaster - Preston

Highly recommended, although not possible at the moment because of the landslip on the Settle Carlisle line.

 

[D6975]

Looking at those diagrams I can do Liverpool to Carlisle and back via the Cumbrian coast in a day, is this correct? It is for a Northern Rail travel voucher I have burning a hole in my pocket.

Provided the Preston makes the 11: 38 off Barrow, then no trouble.

(you'd get back at 20:53)

 

[fowler9]

The Northern Rail travel voucher ticket gives a very good day out from Preston, including two loco hauled trains, on a circular to Carlisle from Preston

Preston - Barrow - Carlisle - Settle
Fish and Chips in a Fish and Chip restaurant, then walk across to Giggleswick for
Giggleswick - Lancaster - Preston

Highly recommended, although not possible at the moment because of the landslip on the Settle Carlisle line.

That sounds like an excellent plan!
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Provided the Preston makes the 11: 38 off Barrow, then no trouble.

(you'd get back at 20:53)

Yeah good point. I've only done a Tractor up to Barrow once and it did make the connection but I am aware it can be less than reliable. I was just going to Barrow anyway so it wouldn't have been a problem. Fortunately I have a voucher with two free windows so I can have two cracks at it. They are valid until next March to.

 

[yorksrob]

Was able to sample the Cumbrian Coast again today.

Connections impeccable and all three loco services spot on time, including a tight connection at Barrow. Nice to enjoy a quality service on this line such that Mk 2's are able to provide.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Was able to sample the Cumbrian Coast again today.

Connections impeccable and all three loco services spot on time, including a tight connection at Barrow. Nice to enjoy a quality service on this line such that Mk 2's are able to provide.

That was my experience last August, 10.04 off Preston to Barrow, 2nd 37 from there to Ravenglass (for Ratty Arms ) and a later service from there to Carlisle, everything perfectly to time plus mk2 interiors spotlessly clean (inc. toilets) and superbly comfortable, put a mk1 RMB in those sets and that would be perfection!

 

[sprinterguy]

And the usual breakdowns, cancellations, late running, substitution by a unit etc

While occasional loco failures continue to persist, as far as I'm aware they're not performing that badly at the moment?

At least for the enthusiasts travelling on these trains, the risk of failures are all part of the fun of the fair, and with licensed premises on or just off the platforms of at least three of the stations en route the impact of late running and cancellations can be substantially lessened. The last time I travelled on the Cumbrian Coast 37s, after a day of perfect point to point timing over the route let down only by a late running 156 I might add (), as we strolled across the crossing from the Prince of Wales at Foxfield to catch our last connection back to Barrow the signalman shouted down from the box that "it's twenty minutes late, lads!", so we hastily turned on our heels and returned to the pub for a further pint.
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...put a mk1 RMB in those sets and that would be perfection!

Ooh, yes please! Stock some decent ales and I hardly need bother getting off the train (or at least wouldn't need to perform a Tesco run at either end of the route; not to denigrate the appeal of the Ratty Arms, Prince of Wales or Hardknott Bar at Millom)!

I'm only disappointed that I didn't clock, before I alighted, the BFK vehicle, with compartments, that I encountered only once during my travels before the driving trailers were introduced. A few ales, sea views and a compartment of ones' own would have been pure luxury!

 

[fowler9]

Will the loco hauled services be operating on Good Friday? Just trying to cover al leventualities. I have had an e mail from Northern Rail saying my vouchers will still be valid till next March, I would still rather use them before April though. Ha ha.

 

[yorksrob]

That was my experience last August, 10.04 off Preston to Barrow, 2nd 37 from there to Ravenglass (for Ratty Arms ) and a later service from there to Carlisle, everything perfectly to time plus mk2 interiors spotlessly clean (inc. toilets) and superbly comfortable, put a mk1 RMB in those sets and that would be perfection!

Yes indeed. They're definitely looking after the interiors.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yes indeed. They're definitely looking after the interiors.

Shame, then, that Northern still see fit to coat the outside of the windows with a fine film of their patented "Northern grit". Although it's still difficult to detract from some of the views.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I'm only disappointed that I didn't clock, before I alighted, the BFK vehicle, with compartments, that I encountered only once during my travels before the driving trailers were introduced. A few ales, sea views and a compartment of ones' own would have been pure luxury!

So you did get to sample the BFK at least once then (going green with envy here) I wasn't so lucky back in August even though it was still operating then as the DBSO's were still not quite in use, btw, is the BFK owned by DRS and if so is there any possible of it standing in for an unavailable DBSO one wonders?

Yes indeed. They're definitely looking after the interiors.

Iam sure I read recently that the mk2's will get another refresh when Arriva take over the Northern franchise, I can't find much to fault with them now to be honest, the only thing back in August I noticed was that the saloon doors were pinned back on all the sets that I rode on so presumably the aircon was not functioning or simply not used?

 

[47802]

While occasional loco failures continue to persist, as far as I'm aware they're not performing that badly at the moment?

At least for the enthusiasts travelling on these trains, the risk of failures are all part of the fun of the fair, and with licensed premises on or just off the platforms of at least three of the stations en route the impact of late running and cancellations can be substantially lessened. The last time I travelled on the Cumbrian Coast 37s, after a day of perfect point to point timing over the route let down only by a late running 156 I might add (), as we strolled across the crossing from the Prince of Wales at Foxfield to catch our last connection back to Barrow the signalman shouted down from the box that "it's twenty minutes late, lads!", so we hastily turned on our heels and returned to the pub for a further pint.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The views of enthusiasts are irrelevant, what is important is those who use the line as a means of Transport and I gather the natives are not impressed indeed I have heard elsewhere that some members from the FLAG user group have compiled some stats to show that the Loco hauled services have been substancially less reliable than the unit services, granted they don't seem to have been too bad for the last couple of weeks, but Feb was poor with a number of Loco failures, train faults, DBSO faults, unit substitution, and one set T&T for a few days due to the lack of serviceable DBSO's.

I was a train commuter for a number of years, but I would rather travel by car by choice due to previous experience of poor train reliability, so that I actually get there on time, or even at all, rather than hoping that Thomas the clapped out 37 doesn't break down, and there's a reason why I drive a 2 year old car to work rather than a 20 year old one.

 

[sprinterguy]

The views of enthusiasts are irrelevant

In the running of an efficient railway they surely are (although it depends on how much you count the views of those who do help run the railway on a day to day basis), but someone had to provide some sort of levity to counter your widely broadcast "all loco-hauled trains are crap" viewpoint.
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btw, is the BFK owned by DRS and if so is there any possible of it standing in for an unavailable DBSO one wonders?

Yes it is, so a bit of "top 'n' tail" action with proper compartments is still a possibility.

I am sure I read recently that the mk2's will get another refresh when Arriva take over the Northern franchise

Yes, I believe that is part of the franchise specification: It's good to see that some additional TLC will be lavished on the sets, even though they'll only be with the franchise for a limited timespan.

the only thing back in August I noticed was that the saloon doors were pinned back on all the sets that I rode on so presumably the aircon was not functioning or simply not used?

I haven't been paying attention, but I can't recall the internal doors to the saloons being in operation on any of the days that I've travelled on these sets (and one wonky photo I took last November seems to support this recollection): Keeping them locked open may have been a decision taken to reduce the risk of faults, or injuries due to trappings.
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...but Feb was poor with a number of Loco failures, train faults, DBSO faults, unit substitution, and one set T&T for a few days due to the lack of serviceable DBSO's.

Ah, faithful to the halcyon days of British Rail: Now that's a way to run a railway!

 

[30907]

Was able to sample the Cumbrian Coast again today.

Connections impeccable and all three loco services spot on time, including a tight connection at Barrow. Nice to enjoy a quality service on this line such that Mk 2's are able to provide.

I was on the northbound trains too, but only as far as Workington. Pleasant trip, and waiting time almost everywhere north of Barrow.

 

[fowler9]

The views of enthusiasts are irrelevant, what is important is those who use the line as a means of Transport and I gather the natives are not impressed indeed I have heard elsewhere that some members from the FLAG user group have compiled some stats to show that the Loco hauled services have been substancially less reliable than the unit services, granted they don't seem to have been too bad for the last couple of weeks, but Feb was poor with a number of Loco failures, train faults, DBSO faults, unit substitution, and one set T&T for a few days due to the lack of serviceable DBSO's.

I was a train commuter for a number of years, but I would rather travel by car by choice due to previous experience of poor train reliability, so that I actually get there on time, or even at all, rather than hoping that Thomas the clapped out 37 doesn't break down, and there's a reason why I drive a 2 year old car to work rather than a 20 year old one.

To be honest if I lived out on the Cumbrian Coast I wouldn't be relying on the rather infrequent rail service for a commute if it was units or 37's. Having a unit turn up at West Allerton every thirty mins can be patchy enough.

 

[hassaanhc]

I travelled on these services on Wednesday 2 March (after coming from London on the 0530 off Euston ):
0915 Lancaster to Preston (0515 from Carlisle) 37401
1004 Preston to Barrow 37401
1138 Barrow to Carlisle 37425 (depart 21 late, arrive 7 late)

The inbound working of the 1138 got delayed by signalling problems somewhere between Askam and what RTT shows as Park South, arriving 20 minutes late at 1152. As a result the 1138 departed 21 minutes late at 1159, which put my +21 at Carlisle at risk (1449 to Euston). However, it gained time throughout, arriving at Carlisle only 7 late at 1435.

The 1138 also had the coach nearest to the loco locked out of use. Neither of the powered internal sliding doors at the ends were working on my coach, and had to be opened/closed manually (but I found one working on the earlier set). The heating was working on both coaches that I used.

How did I find the line? The views until Sellafield were excellent, but to be honest the remaining bit to Carlisle was a big let down . Didn't help it was overcast, windy and sometimes wet once we got somewhere past Ravenglass (I think), having been sunny since 1030. Although it was snowing in Lancaster in the morning when I got there 0829 and still some snow at Shap Summit after 1500.