DB running on HS1

[es373]

You know what I meant

 

[Nigel Gresley]

Pininfarina are also responsible for designing the new Eurostar livery.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I had a good look at a new Siemens Velaro D in Munich Hbf yesterday. It was fairly dirty so must have been doing quite a few test runs. All the seats are still covered in polythene and there's a lot of insulating tape/wires on the outside of the doors.

I still don't like the look of it, the roof line is way too high and the doors look poor compared to an ICE3, they have small square windows with the destination board beneath, rather than the ovalish windows which ICE3s have. They also have a lower top speed, 320km/h as opposed to 330km/h

Also had a good look at a former Metropolitan set in Inter City livery, these trains used to run between Cologne & Hamburg (when they were silver) and the coaches look more like an ICE than an IC, seats look nicer too and they have a higher top speen (220km/h).

 

[es373]

I had a good look at a new Siemens Velaro D in Munich Hbf yesterday. It was fairly dirty so must have been doing quite a few test runs. All the seats are still covered in polythene and there's a lot of insulating tape/wires on the outside of the doors.

I still don't like the look of it, the roof line is way too high and the doors look poor compared to an ICE3, they have small square windows with the destination board beneath, rather than the ovalish windows which ICE3s have. They also have a lower top speed, 320km/h as opposed to 330km/h

Also had a good look at a former Metropolitan set in Inter City livery, these trains used to run between Cologne & Hamburg (when they were silver) and the coaches look more like an ICE than an IC, seats look nicer too and they have a higher top speen (220km/h).

Roof line is high because off the aabsence of a power car. There is no M1,M2 effectively.
Equipment is in the roofs and undersides as I think there are more than 6 powered bogies.
Don't forget ES has to have redundancy to get through ET...

 

[gordonthemoron]

ICE3 & ICE-T don't have a high roofline and don't have power cars, however neither do they have to be able to cope with so many different voltages

 

[es373]

Which is why the valero D does have a high roofline. Excuse the bad spelling and grammar, phone keypad is playing up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And yes it has been on many test/endurance and commissioning runs.

 

[MCR247]

Also had a good look at a former Metropolitan set in Inter City livery, these trains used to run between Cologne & Hamburg (when they were silver) and the coaches look more like an ICE than an IC, seats look nicer too and they have a higher top speen (220km/h).

Have you got a picture, I think I saw on in Berlin, but I'm not sure

 

[gordonthemoron]

unfortunately not, I guess there are probably 6 sets

 

[MCR247]

Do the 'DVTs' look the same as the normal IC sets?


EDIT: Have found a picture on Flickr, it was one of those I saw

 

[Kingfisher200262]

DB has announced that it will now no begin operating ICE trains through the Channel Tunnel until 2013 (just in case you're in Germany or Holland and planning on travelling to The Olympics in 2012 by rail, you'd better get your flight booked!), according to RTM HERE.

There's lots of info in the article.... apart from why the delay!??!?!?

Any rumours floating around?

 

[ainsworth74]

The plan has always been to run services from 2013. DB's CEO said on the Today programme that they would like to run services in time for The Olympics but were being defeated by 'safety bureaucracy', however the actual target date of 2013 never changed.

See Railway Eye here.

 

[jon0844]

I also remember it as 2013, with a hope/desire to run services for the Olympics. It's a shame that this can't happen, but it was presumably only ever going to be for the Olympics and would have stopped again afterwards.. so probably best not to have a nice new service and then lose it for a year!

 

[cle]

Yep it was always 2013 really. To be honest, it's a piece of good news just to hear that 2013 is still being aimed for and it's not been pushed back.

The sooner the better - as with Eurostar's new sets and destinations too. I think it will be hugely popular, especially with families, older people, groups and so on. Business travellers will be key though - they'll need good wifi and decent frequency. If you can work on the train, it'll mitigate journey times in terms of overall efficiency.

Surely sitting on a train for an overall journey which is 1.5 hours longer (Frankfurt for example) where you can work, is better than getting there quicker but losing 2 hours messing around with trains/taxi to and from airports, the airport itself and the flight - especially taxi-ing and circling busier airports.

Cologne and Rotterdam will be a success and sewn up (and The Hague possibly, great for EU and Shell traffic - bet they'd miss Waterloo!) but Amsterdam and Frankfurt are the real prizes, if they can make the longer journeys vs. millions of cheap flights work out.

 

[jon0844]

That is another good point; when you're delayed coming in to land*, you're probably all belted up and everything has been put away. This is totally dead time where you can do little more than read (and not even use your Kindle!).

If the train is held up then, yes, it's frustrating but you carry on working on your laptop for a bit longer, or phone ahead to say you're running late. That is unless the train is stuck in a tunnel with no coverage for the latter.

* At certain times, I am sure the congestion may well be included in the timetabling, but you're still going to have to put everything away and stop being productive.

 

[cle]

City Airport obviously doesn't have LHR's taxi and circling problems - and that is the one which flies to a lot of the potential destinations in the region:
Rotterdam - 8 flights
Eindhoven - 2 flights
Antwerp - 5 flights

Cologne has 8 flights a day to London airports but spread between LHR/LGW/STN - and none to City - so the train will definitely become more attractive for business. I could see CityJet launching LCY - Cologne maybe when the trains begin.

Taxi-ing at Heathrow alone can be the biggest pain and 'dead time'.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I also remember it as 2013, with a hope/desire to run services for the Olympics. It's a shame that this can't happen, but it was presumably only ever going to be for the Olympics and would have stopped again afterwards.. so probably best not to have a nice new service and then lose it for a year!

The suggested Olympics service was planned to be a DB lease of the NoL Eurostar sets and not an ICE / Velaro service, but that has been scuppered by SNCF renewing their lease on those.

 

[gordonthemoron]

at the mo, DB on the Frankfurt-Brussels ICE route, wifi is only available between Frankfurt & Cologne.

The Velaro D test train has been in Munich quite often lately (usually parked next to my office), it has SIX pantographs

 

[DiscoStu]

I would love it if DB use ICE 3 style (or Velaro D as is being quoted) trains from London to Germany.

I travelled from Munich to London yesterday, and the difference in quality between the ICE 3 and the Eurostar stock was unbeleivable.

The ICE was roomy, comfortable, quiet, smooth, and an all round very pleasent place to be. The Eurostar was cramped, noisy, and the lights were far too bright.

I'd travelled from Munich to Brussels, changing in Frankfurt, and was still fresh after over six hours of travel (despite having been drinking heavily at Oktoberfest for four days). By the time I got to London, I felt a complete wreck.

If this doesn't happen, I'll be very dissapointed.

 

[blackfive460]

We have a date! (Maybe.)

'Germany’s Deutsche Bahn has confirmed it will begin running services to London through the Channel Tunnel from December 2013 - later than originally hoped.
...'

Read the full article

 

[cle]

Thanks for that.

One bit:

DB says that a journey from London to Frankfurt by train will take just over five hours, and London to Amsterdam will be just under four hours. The trains will travel at 320kph (200mph), expanding the rail market between Britain and the continent by 10% by carrying 1 million passengers a year.

For Amsterdam, this seems a bit long. A non stop London - Brussels is 1h51. A non-stop Brussels - Amsterdam is supposed to be 1h45. This should be 3h35.

I would expect an ICE3 to accelerate better than Eurostar stock too, so should knock a minute or two off the time.

Also - where will it run at 320km/h?

I guess coupling/decoupling and dwell at Brussels has to be factored. Other stops I would expect Antwerp and Rotterdam, and only Cologne on the Frankurt route. Liege and Aachen aren't big enough.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Eurostar trains have always terminated at the dedicated (and "sealed") bay platforms at Brussels Midi, so how will the DB ICE work? Will it arrive at a through platform and de-couple there to allow the units to head in different directions? Is there any issue with a train bound to/from the UK not using the dedicated platforms (re: border controls, etc.)

 

[gordonthemoron]

dunno about Frankfurt & Brussels, but DB are intending using platform 1 at Cologne Hbf with some sort of temporary security arrangement for the 3 services to London (southbound wouldn't be required)

 

[es373]

Instead of guessing what the services will be, why doesn't someone contact DB and ask? At least then you'll have factual information.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
e320 will run at 320kmh pretty much everywhere as the thing will be coming over here soonish for commissioning and test runs.
Obviously ESR's/TSR's permitting.

 

[blackfive460]

Eurostar trains have always terminated at the dedicated (and "sealed") bay platforms at Brussels Midi, so how will the DB ICE work? Will it arrive at a through platform and de-couple there to allow the units to head in different directions? Is there any issue with a train bound to/from the UK not using the dedicated platforms (re: border controls, etc.)

The map I have of the Brussels area isn't all that detailed but isn't there a possible route for trains reversing then heading east via Brussels Ouest?
That would allow them to use the existing controlled platforms and would be a much cheaper solution than including the closest through platform in the 'closed' area.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The map I have of the Brussels area isn't all that detailed but isn't there a possible route for trains reversing then heading east via Brussels Ouest?
That would allow them to use the existing controlled platforms and would be a much cheaper solution than including the closest through platform in the 'closed' area.

You're right, there is - back out of Midi, turn off to the west at Cureghem Jct, north a bit on a bit with no stations, east at Pannenhuis Jct then north at Zennebrug Jct to rejoin the line just south of Schaarbeek.

( Thank goodness for an old style large formal M.G.Ball Atlas )

 

[shinkansen1966]

Wonder if DB could get a dispensation from the UKBA and arrange for passport controls to be carried out on board a train bound for London. These checks could be undertaken before the London bound ICE reached Brussels, with the UKBA 'rejecting' passengers, as necessary, before they reached UK territory.

Indeed, there used to be onboard checks on the Eurostar.

Scaled back Spanish station style security checks could be installed at Amsterdam, Cologne, Frankfurt...

 

[jon0844]

As long as they took people off before entering the UK, it might work - but I am pretty sure they'd run the risk of someone remaining on, then claiming asylum as soon as they entered the UK (and so loads would try it, meaning half the train would probably be illegals!!).

I wonder if that is why passport checks stopped? I certainly remember this when I first travelled back at the launch of Eurostar - for a day trip to Brussels.

 

[es373]

It stopped when passport fraud got more advanced. I've seen some bloody good copied passports.

 

[cle]

Could reversals work for Amsterdam as well? Seems counterintuitive!

I'm still curious where it will run at 320 km/h?

I think the new Eurostar stock has had that figure bandied around too, and those are also destined for Amsterdam I believe.

 

[MCR247]

And Cologne