Double-booked seat

[penaltyfines]

I was travelling on an Advance ticket today with XC, absolutely packed train... just about got on, to find someone sitting in my booked, reserved seat.

I thought a polite word would get him to move, but he also produced a reservation ticket - we had th *exact* same seat reserved, overlapping the entire portion of my journey.

I had to stand for an hour and a half to my destination, no TM to be seen to complain to - not amused!

Does anyone know what can be done about this, what form of compensation I am entitled to?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

NCoC says:

40. Reserving seats

Seats in some trains can be reserved before you travel and you may have to pay a fee. Unless you have a seat reservation, the Train Companies do not guarantee to provide a seat for your journey. You must have a valid ticket for your journey before reserving a seat. This ticket allows you to reserve no more than one seat per person for each part of your journey.

41. Refund of reservation fees

If a seat reservation, sleeper reservation or cycle reservation is not honoured, the Train Company responsible will refund any reservation fee paid. If the Train Company is unable to provide alternative equivalent accommodation for you or your cycle, you will be compensated for the inconvenience. The value of the compensation will be no more than the price of the full single fare for the journey. If you are unable or have decided not to travel you will be entitled to claim a refund under Condition 26 for the relevant part of your journey.

 

[penaltyfines]

So I can claim a refund of the ticket as compensation?

 

[daikilo]

So I can claim a refund of the ticket as compensation?

Based on interpretation of the wording, possibly, assuming you can prove that the seat was indeed double-booked and that there were no other seats available.

Indeed, if you can, you could probably try claiming for hardship on top (see rules applicable for airline passengers in case of overbooking) as you may have entered into the contract for travel on the basis that you had a reserved seat.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You can't refund the ticket, but you can claim for compensation of upto the value of the full single fare apparently

 

[Mojo]

You can't refund the ticket, but you can claim for compensation of upto the value of the full single fare apparently

Could "up to" include £0?

 

[Death]

Could "up to" include £0?

I suppose it could (If a refund for a fraction of a penny was made) but it'd be a very bad idea for the TOC to try pulling a stunt like that!

Indeed though, it does raise a good question: We've all heard about people moaning to TOCs when no seats have been available on a service only to be told that "A seat is not guarenteed unless ye reserve one", which is one reason why I'm glad I have the ability to stand up for eight hours at a time...But in this case PenaltyFines did have a legitimate reservation, and - Under the terms of the NCoC itself - Did have every Gods-given right to a seat on that journey!

Surely, therefore, he has the right to claim against the TOC for the cost of the ticket because he didn't receive the service that he'd paid for (A train journey with a guarenteed seat)...Doesn't he?

 

[John @ home]

Could "up to" include £0?

The relevant words from the CrossCountry Passenger's Charter are:

Seat reservations

If for some reason we cannot honour your reservation please ask a member of the on-board team for help. Our staff will try their best to fi nd you a seat. If you are still without a seat after 15 minutes a member of the on-board team will be happy to endorse your ticket if you ask. You may send your endorsed ticket in to our Customer Relations Team who will give you National Rail Vouchers to the value of at least 5% of the price for that journey in recognition of our inability to honour your seat reservation.

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Customer_service/Passengers_Charter.aspx

The figure of 5% does not seem generous in comparison with other TOCs. For example:

If the seat you have reserved is not available, where possible our staff will advise you where an alternative seat can be found. If an alternative seat cannot be found onboard our train, we will compensate you for the inconvenience under our Seat Guarantee Scheme as follows:

• If your ticket is one way, we will compensate you 100% of the value of your ticket
• If your ticket is a return, we will compensate you 50% of the value of your ticket

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/about-us/passengers-charter1/Seat-guarantee-scheme/

 

[daikilo]

I suppose it could (If a refund for a fraction of a penny was made) but it'd be a very bad idea for the TOC to try pulling a stunt like that!

Indeed though, it does raise a good question: We've all heard about people moaning to TOCs when no seats have been available on a service only to be told that "A seat is not guarenteed unless ye reserve one", which is one reason why I'm glad I have the ability to stand up for eight hours at a time...But in this case PenaltyFines did have a legitimate reservation, and - Under the terms of the NCoC itself - Did have every Gods-given right to a seat on that journey!

Surely, therefore, he has the right to claim against the TOC for the cost of the ticket because he didn't receive the service that he'd paid for (A train journey with a guarenteed seat)...Doesn't he?

Yes, 100%, if he can prove it.

 

[penaltyfines]

The relevant words from the CrossCountry Passenger's Charter are: The figure of 5% does not seem generous in comparison with other TOCs. For example:

5%!?

If that's all they offer I will be inclined to take my own compensation next time I travel! Appauling...

 

[rail-britain]

The 5% is for Season Ticket Holders

Claim the compensation, explain the circumstances
You should receive 50% of the return journey or the FULL Single Journey fare, for the points travelled on their service

 

[John @ home]

The 5% is for Season Ticket Holders

Why should Season Ticket Holders receive only

5% of the price for that journey

 

[rail-britain]

Why should Season Ticket Holders receive only

The 5% is common policy for all TOCs, and is equivalent to 20 working days / 4 working weeks use per month
If it is any other type of ticket, then it is up to full single fare or 50% of return fare

 

[daikilo]

5%!?

If that's all they offer I will be inclined to take my own compensation next time I travel! Appauling...

Penaly fares, pls read all our replies. 5% is for journeys by monthly seasons holders. Your example could be at least 100% for your single journey.

 

[John @ home]

I don't think you understand me. I accept that compensation for a monthly season is based on 20 working days, that's 40 single journeys.

East Coast price York - Doncaster. The monthly Standard season is £172.10, that's £4.30 per single journey. So the compensation for failure to honour a seat reservation on one occasion under the East Coast scheme is 50% of the value of your (return) ticket or 100% of the value of your (single) ticket. In both cases that's £4.30. I'm content that is reasonable.

CrossCountry price Derby - Birmingham. The monthly Standard season is £235.10, that's £5.88 per single journey. So the compensation for failure to honour a seat reservation on one occasion under the CrossCountry scheme is 5% of the price for that journey. That's 29p. I don't think that is reasonable.

 

[Ferret]

I was travelling on an Advance ticket today with XC, absolutely packed train... just about got on, to find someone sitting in my booked, reserved seat.

I thought a polite word would get him to move, but he also produced a reservation ticket - we had th *exact* same seat reserved, overlapping the entire portion of my journey.

I had to stand for an hour and a half to my destination, no TM to be seen to complain to - not amused!

Does anyone know what can be done about this, what form of compensation I am entitled to?

Hmmm, I've come across this many times recently, usually when one party has bought tickets through RailEasy! Pity you couldn't find the TM yourself as you may well have got yourself an upgrade!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Yes, there does seem to be a problem with raileasy. I too have experienced this - passengers call my assistance and indeed I find two people with the same seat reserved on the same train, and one was booked with raileasy.

Having said that, most cases are down to mistakes reading the reservation ticket. For example somebody has the right seat number but wrong coach. This is very common with Coach A - where airline seat 26 in Coach A will say "A 26A" and the same seat in coach C will say "C 26A". People often look at the latter bit and not the actual coach letter as well - mistaking the A for airline to mean A for coach A. I did also go down a train once to find two people nearly having a punch up over a seat. At first glance both people had a reservation ticket for the same seat in the same coach. Only when I checked again (and I admit I didn't notice first time round) did I note that one passenger was reserved on a different time train. The annoying thing one he was the one causing the problem as he argued that he had reserved that seat, and as he had an open flexible ticket he had the right to take that seat on any train he fancied!

 

[Ferret]

Yes KWVR, I've seen that too, and that's usually my first thought, and when that's proved wrong, I immediately ask about RailDifficult. I love Yorkie's rant about thetrainline.con, but his hatred for them is nothing compared to mine for that lot!

 

[DJ737]

G'day there

Why didn't the OP just go and find a 1st class seat, or was 1st packed as well?
Do on train staff have the discretion to allow a passenger to sit in 1st in these circumstances?

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[Flamingo]

Seen it claimed lots of times, never actually seen it once the reservations were examined. Usually one party is on the wrong train / wrong day / misread carriage.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Happened to me once on a VT train from London to Manchester, (I did compare the reservation tickets, and they were definitely for the same seat, same train, same day). Luckily the train wasn't too busy, so just moved to an adjacent seat. Echoing previous posters, most of the time, the problem is in the 'A' coach when reservation holders actually have an airline seat in a different coach, or occasionally, passengers who are on a different timed train, but think that their reservation is valid for the same seat on all trains departing that day.

 

[jopsuk]

Had it once on Virgin last year- other seats at able weren't reserved though, so we sorted it out ourselves without fuss. Did have a word later with the TM- he said it was a known problem when one party had booked on the web (Virgin Trains site!) and the other at a ticket office. He was collecting reports to forward to those reponsible to show scale of problem. He said that if standard had been full he'd have upgraded me (as I was a lone traveller, and other person was mother with child- easier to upgrade one person than two).

 

[moonrakerz]

Seen it claimed lots of times, never actually seen it once the reservations were examined. Usually one party is on the wrong train / wrong day / misread carriage.

See it everytime I go to The Emirates - always wrong seat, wrong row or occasionally wrong part of the ground !! Never seen wrong game - yet !