DeeGee
Member
Well then, explain to me how selling tickets helps to safely deliver the timetable?
Pays for itself, does it ?
Well then, explain to me how selling tickets helps to safely deliver the timetable?
Of course unless they boarded a station with no ticketing facilities, on which case the full range of tickets and discounts will be offered
There are a number of solutions to this, one of which was floated above. Make people expect to have to pay by upping the staff on board. Make it a deterrent.
To be fair no amount of rule setting, financial penalties or other sanctions are going to prevent those determined few with this sort of crappy attitude.
The whole point is, it's not a determined few, in some places it's the majority. Which still doesn't take away from the basic point, if the TOC has a commercial Guard on the train, what is wrong with expecting the passenger who needs a ticket to make some effort to find that guard? It's no different than queueing at a booking office or TVM.
Because booking office staff and TVMs by definition are stuck in one place whereas a guard has legs that they are expected to use.
So lots of non-rail staff on here maintain. Has this ever been tested in court, or is it somebody's "interpretation" of the NRCoC? I've never seen it explicitly stated anywhere (except by posters on here) and would love to know the reference, either to the case, or the written condition, or the bylaw.
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If Guards are refusing to sell you tickets, complain to the TOC. If it has happened every train you have ever travelled on, complain to Passenger Focus and your MP.
It's funny how even the most vocal complainer on this Forum never seems to complain to any of the above about circumstances that mean they might get a free ride, but will whinge loud and long in every possible channel when somebody dares to suggest that today's possible loophole in the Routeing Guide might not be valid.
Yawn. Of course, I forgot. It is one of the mantra's on here that every passenger wants to buy a ticket, it's lazy guards hiding in the back cab that prevent them doing so - of course, this is just part of the big plot so they can then be written up by an RPI despite making every effort to pay... :roll:
So what about the large number of people who travel, not only from stations with TVM's, but even manned booking offices, but have some other bollix excuse like "I was running for the train", resulting in the usual apologists on here with "But if it's the only train for 16 hours..." - should they find the guard, or sit there fast asleep with their headphones on?
We're back to expected again. The only expected I can remember seeing is that the passenger is expected to buy a ticket at the earliest opportunity.
I know that is a difficult concept for some to grasp. Which bit of it needs explaining further?
Nothing I guess. I've just been told by staff in no uncertain terms that knocking on the door of the rear cab is unacceptable. How do I know if a guard would rather I sit and wait, or get up and approach them.The whole point is, it's not a determined few, in some places it's the majority. Which still doesn't take away from the basic point, if the TOC has a commercial Guard on the train, what is wrong with expecting the passenger who needs a ticket to make some effort to find that guard? It's no different than queueing at a booking office or TVM.
As far as I'm concerned, all these excuses are simply to massage the conscience of the "Pay when challenged" fare dodgers, and if any forum members posting here or reading this are offended because you fit that category and you don't like having this pointed out to you, I make no apology for that. If the cap fits...
Passenger selects his ticket in the normal way and is asked how wishes to pay. If he selects cash a 'ticket' with date, time, origin, destination, fare and wording such as "I undertake to pay the fare shown in cash at the earliest opportunity"
On presenting the 'ticket' to the guard or RPI on the train or at the gate or excess fare at the destination he pays his fare. Failure to produce a 'ticket' would clearly be intent to avoid payment and would be dealt with by penalty fare or prosecution as appropriate.
I've come across a couple who quite strongly objected when, after having sat down for 15 minutes and no one passing through, I went to the back of the train and knocked on the cab door to ask for a ticket.
I have complained. Even sent a cheque in for the unpaid fare when I've alighted at an unstaffed station (it got cashed so I assume they got it).
If there is a guard on the train, on most journeys that would count as adequate facilities for most tickets and payment types, I would have thought.
Basically, too many people make excuses for the "Pay when challenged" brigade, as the last few posts show. Talk about "Paytrains" is another red herring - how long ago did they go out? Over ten, I know that.
Nothing I guess. I've just been told by staff in no uncertain terms that knocking on the door of the rear cab is unacceptable. How do I know if a guard would rather I sit and wait, or get up and approach them.
Paying for the railway and operating it are two different things though. NR is the railway operator and they get to use GSM-R. Selling tickets is a commercial activity of the TOCs so they have to use standard commercial 3G/4G.Pays for itself, does it ?
My first thought here was "What were the couple up to in the back cab??"
What is the difference between seeking out the TVM at the station (which you might not have used before) and seeking out the guard on the train?
The TVM's only job is to sell you a ticket, the guard's primary job is to ensure the safety of the train and the passengers.
I get both sides of the argument- passengers will deliberately try and avoid the guard wherever possible..
Finding someone in an arbitrary position in a possibly very busy train is a ludicrous idea.
But this issue isn't primarily about passengers trying to avoid the guard, although I recognise that some will. It is about that honest passengers should not have to walk around the train looking for someone to pay their fare to.
....[A] lady... woke the ticket examiner up from his nap to buy a ticket.....He was not best pleased
Maybe there should be a duty for all stations to be staffed and barriered, therefore it could be proven that individuals ignored an opportunity to pay. It would be very expensive but it would improve customer and staff safety. I cannot imagine it is very safe for a guard to be carrying cash around.
Well then, perhaps what they could do is have someone on the train who can sell tickets - to cut down the costs, maybe make it a secondary job for one of the on train staff members.... oh, wait.Passenger numbers might be on the up, but do you think its viable to staff either of these stations for 2-3 trains a day?
I've come across a couple who quite strongly objected when, after having sat down for 15 minutes and no one passing through, I went to the back of the train and knocked on the cab door to ask for a ticket.
I can well believe it. It makes me laugh at Hemel Hempstead, which has barriers but they're only working about half the time. I can always tell when the barriers are closed because the queue at the ticket office is about four times longer than when the barriers are open.