EC Scottish trains plans

[MidnightFlyer]

All Aberdeen-KGX trains could go, the EC want all (or most stuff) to terminate at EDB only

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2010/08/31-urgent-talks-planned-to-save.html

 

[CallySleeperKid]

All Aberdeen-KGX trains could go, the EC want all (or most stuff) to terminate at EDB only

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2010/08/31-urgent-talks-planned-to-save.html

The Highland Chieftain better be running in December as I plan to make my first trip on it!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Something gets mentioned about the IEP... The Cally Sleepers may be the only things left north of EDB and Glasgow hock:

 

[Lampshade]

I think it's just an excuse to try and go all-electric on the ECML, I wouldn't be surprised if EC Hull/Skipton services will follow.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think it's just an excuse to try and go all-electric on the ECML, I wouldn't be surprised if EC Hull/Skipton services will follow.

If you read the article (which i quickread!) says it is for that reason, they think Hulls are to stay (bit strange with HT being in town), dunno Skipton, Bradford FSQ and Harrogate - one will stay to go that chord at hambleton that Harrogate Sats do now

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah I would tend to agree this is just an attempt to make East Coast all electric so we don't need to faff with Bi-Mode IEP.

 

[tbtc]

A direct link from Kirkcaldy to London no longer necessary now Gordon Brown is no longer PM?

Unless this is part of a plan to get the Scottish Government to electrify the Aberdeen line *or* lose the London service...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Just seems like Perth-Stirling-Edinburgh and Aberdeen-Dundee-Edinburgh trains will just get even busier, or most will just think sod it, and get the plane down from Inverness or Aberdeen

 

[Invincibles]

This seems quite sensible if Cross Country extend up there, which they could do if they got the HSTs from East Coast?

Given the WCML only really goes to Glasgow now is the ECML only going to Edinburgh not logical?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

This seems quite sensible if Cross Country extend up there, which they could do if they got the HSTs from East Coast?

Given the WCML only really goes to Glasgow now is the ECML only going to Edinburgh not logical?

It's more the Aberdeen, Dundee, Kingdom of Fife, Inverness, Remote Central Highlands, Perth, Stirling and Falkirk losing direct daytime passenger trains

 

[rail-britain]

I can't see this service withdrawal happening
Different if there was "no demand", but that is not the case

However, it would open up these two routes to either ScotRail or an open access operator

If ScotRail did take over the services, then that may actually be beneficial, as well as linking in nicely to their sleeper services (which in turn may seem them swapped back to the ECML)

 

[tbtc]

Given the WCML only really goes to Glasgow now is the ECML only going to Edinburgh not logical?

Difference is the WCML has tended to only serve Glasgow (a long time since there was the Inverness - London service through Mossend)

My reaction to this partly depends on what would happen to the HSTs. They are certainly needed on the trips I've made. Whilst a lot of places have travel to London in one direction only (e.g. to London in the morning, from London in the afternoon) there are a lot of flows on the ECML to consider.

The St Andrews students from the Home Counties of England. The dozens of Aberdeen oil workers (who can take over a whole carriage, or at least feel like it!)...

Whilst it may suit Scotrail to have a "blank" sheet of paper to plan their services on (rather than fitting around HST paths), they are going to need something bigger than a 170 to fill the boots of a HST!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However, it would open up these two routes to either ScotRail or an open access operator

I can see Platinum Trains suddenly look a little less silly

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I can see Platinum Trains suddenly look a little less silly

They'd have to call at least at Dundee and Kirkcaldy or another Fife station - you cant do Aberdeen and edinburgh only

 

[scotsman]

There was once talk by the SNP (boo!) of trying to get hold of HSTs for Scotland - London trains. To be honest I think it was power-play, but it may be the final option...

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Whilst it may suit Scotrail to have a "blank" sheet of paper to plan their services on (rather than fitting around HST paths), they are going to need something bigger than a 170 to fill the boots of a HST!

Id love to see a First ScotRail HST!

 

[tbtc]

Id love to see a First ScotRail HST!

They might be needed!

Alternatively... Edinburgh - Aberdeen - Edinburgh is about five hours round trip. Would need (just over) five trains.... there will be five 180s spare shortly...

(sadly not enough 180s to provide an hourly Edinburgh - Aberdeen service, but... you get the idea... )

 

[p.d87]

I can see the east coast mainline being trimmed down to the bare minimum i.e Kings Cross to Leeds and Edinburgh. If Alliance Rail get their way then places like Skipton that lost their direct links would get them restored. Plus if this were to happen the HST paths would become available for open access to take over unless they are taken to increase frequencies on the core route. GNER (Alliance Rail) could also take over the Northern Scottish services using their new-build stock. Positive things could come out of this...

 

[Lampshade]

Id love to see a First ScotRail HST!

I'm on it

 

[CallySleeperKid]

I'm on it

Lovely, Can you get me one in OO gauge?

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't see this service withdrawal happening
Different if there was "no demand", but that is not the case

Exactly. And it isn't really an 'EC plan', it's a 'what if' in the Foster IEP report.

Not only that, it's been discussed in at least two or three earlier threads hasn't it?

 

[chic]

Id love to see a First ScotRail HST!

First own a few, so who knows?

 

[swt_passenger]

... Plus if this were to happen the HST paths would become available for open access to take over unless they are taken to increase frequencies on the core route.

Doesn't follow at all. The paths would only become available north of Edinburgh - all the existing HST services are extensions of Edinburgh clockface hourly services that would still exist.

There'd be no extra space for OA operators south of Edinburgh, or south of Newcastle in the hours the second train ends there...

 

[Lampshade]

Lovely, Can you get me one in OO gauge?

I royally buggered up the logo but here goes.

 

[scotsman]

I royally buggered up the logo but here goes.

very nice, great work! [can't imagine the blue dots being uncluded on them]

 

[me123]

This'll never happen.

There is lots of demand for these through services. Off the top of my head, there's the demand from the large town of Kirkcaldy, the students and tourists using Leuchars for St Andrews, academics and professionals going on business to Dundee (a city with a rather poor airport), and the oil market in Aberdeen. Surely there's enough there to warrant through services to Newcastle, York and London?

And, believe me, the Express East services are rather well used. The HSTs help to provide some valuable relief. Whilst they could certainly be used more effectively (eg, by running in the existing Scotrail paths rather than supplementing Scotrail's service), they are well used trains and really should be maintained.

I've always wondered if it would be more cost effective to have these services North of Edinburgh operated by Scotrail using the same stock. So, at Edinburgh, East Coast crews leave the train and Scotrail crews board. I imagine it would save on the cost of having two separate crews for the same service.

 

[YorkshireBear]

would be a sad day if this were to happen. Well instead of messing around with bi mode go all electric and keep a limited number of HST's for runs north of edinburgh. I think if they go (should they get stock) XC would take them over.

 

[Bittern]

I've never travelled on them, but I've seen northbound HSTs depart Edinburgh many-a-time, and I don't think I've ever seen one that's not mostly full. With that in mind, I don't think this'll come to anything.

 

[LE Greys]

This'll never happen.

There is lots of demand for these through services. Off the top of my head, there's the demand from the large town of Kirkcaldy, the students and tourists using Leuchars for St Andrews, academics and professionals going on business to Dundee (a city with a rather poor airport), and the oil market in Aberdeen. Surely there's enough there to warrant through services to Newcastle, York and London?

And, believe me, the Express East services are rather well used. The HSTs help to provide some valuable relief. Whilst they could certainly be used more effectively (eg, by running in the existing Scotrail paths rather than supplementing Scotrail's service), they are well used trains and really should be maintained.

I've always wondered if it would be more cost effective to have these services North of Edinburgh operated by Scotrail using the same stock. So, at Edinburgh, East Coast crews leave the train and Scotrail crews board. I imagine it would save on the cost of having two separate crews for the same service.

I hope you're right, since I would lose my direct service from Uni to home.

There is a huge demand on that route, even though an awful lot of the passengers get on/off at Waverley, at least 25% go right through. The summer tourist market is just as important as the oil, and removing direct trains to London would simply squeeze a lot more passengers onto BA and EasyJet (especially those with lots of luggage).

However, I wouldn't put it past DfT Rail to do something this stupid.

 

[b0b]

So could the DfT be looking at sending XC services from Edinburgh to Aberdeen rather than Glasgow, now that looks to have fallen through?

Obviously the play is to limit the number of diesel trains required by the ECML.

 

[rail-britain]

So could the DfT be looking at sending XC services from Edinburgh to Aberdeen rather than Glasgow, now that looks to have fallen through?

If they can't negotiate a simple extension to Glasgow, there is no chance of Aberdeen