ECML Significant Disruption

[ralphchadkirk]

Surely a software system that keeps a vital artery of the country open has a backup system? Even if it means that everything runs to a max speed of 30-40mph? Obviously not if today is anything to go by!

The operation of the signals does not change whether it's 125mph or 30mph. Points still have to be proved, signals have to be proved, track circuits have to be proved.

 

[Max]

A bad start to today, signalling problems at Leeds are causing significant problems. 0805 Kings Cross and 0810 Birmingham haven't even left yet - oh dear! Also, nothing on National Rail about the problems either.

 

[TheBigD]

...at least one point between 1930 - 2000 (could have been more times but I was working a shift I'd be away from the depot) the queue for the replacement buses services was snaking from Eurocar next to platform 1 to the far end of the long stay car park snaking around by the train crew messrooms as well, none of us in the messroom have seen it that bad...

Sourcing buses was a major problem. Most of the usual companies were unable to supply buses due to them being comitted to taking people to/from the TUC march in London.

 

[GB]

Current delay minutes: 7919
Trains Affected: 267
Part Cancelled: 86
Full Cancelled: 27
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely a software system that keeps a vital artery of the country open has a backup system?

They do and are defined as A and B. When A fails everything automatically shifts over to B but in this case B also failed.

 

[HST Power]

Current delay minutes: 7919
Trains Affected: 267
Part Cancelled: 86
Full Cancelled: 27
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They do and are defined as A and B. When A fails everything automatically shifts over to B but in this case B also failed.

That's a lot of delay minutes! It certainly won't be a good day at the office for National Rail!

 

[38Cto15E]

Granted it was usually over a lot shorter section, but in the 70s when there were problems with the signalling (usually wire theft) trains carried on running under a time interval system.
This was something like allow for the usual slowest journey time between the two points, add ten minutes, but travel at caution and be prepared to stop anytime.
Guards on freight trains had to light the lamps on the brake if there was a tunnel in the section.

 

[jon0844]

<off topic>

Why the hell are they playing a Scotland/Brazil game in London? Has no-one told the organisers about sustainable travel? OK Brazil are coming over by plane, but to ship thousands of supporters to London is complete nonsense...blo++y amateurs...whose in charge of this? Clowns, the lot of them. What's the collective noun for clowns, apart for the obvious alliterative?

Haha, well if you think that's a long journey - I went to see Sweden v Brazil at the Emirates a few years back!
</off topic>

I think people believe we just delay things for fun. Like the signal man is that chappy out of Airplane!, just pulling the plug out for lulz. Then we have to make 'excuses' to cover up the 'truth'. Because its not in the industry's best interests to have trains on time or anything like that.

That would be funny, even if I was affected.

But, seriously, I wonder if people remember when Air Traffic Control switched on its new system and it all went pear shaped? These things do happen. A backup system is one thing, but the real backup system is the failsafe that stops everything and ensures safety and I guess that did work fine.

These signal failures happen far more often than you're even aware of, only the most serious disruption catches peoples attention.

That certainly matches the huge number of text alerts I receive from FCC saying my services might be delayed due to signalling problems (usually without any location, or even what lines are effected) and then a text after the end of the peak saying it is no longer causing a problem.

Although I've not had these for a couple of weeks, I used to get one or two a week.

Funny thing is that I don't recall ever actually being delayed by more than a minute or two, so never worked out whether these problems were real or actually another computer error - triggering delay messages through the system.

 

[HST Power]

<off topic>


Haha, well if you think that's a long journey - I went to see Sweden v Brazil at the Emirates a few years back!
</off topic>



That would be funny, even if I was affected.

But, seriously, I wonder if people remember when Air Traffic Control switched on its new system and it all went pear shaped? These things do happen. A backup system is one thing, but the real backup system is the failsafe that stops everything and ensures safety and I guess that did work fine.



That certainly matches the huge number of text alerts I receive from FCC saying my services might be delayed due to signalling problems (usually without any location, or even what lines are effected) and then a text after the end of the peak saying it is no longer causing a problem.

Although I've not had these for a couple of weeks, I used to get one or two a week.

Funny thing is that I don't recall ever actually being delayed by more than a minute or two, so never worked out whether these problems were real or actually another computer error - triggering delay messages through the system.

I agree with you on that one. The amount of texts I had from FCC was ridiculous, and most of the time there wasn't even a problem anyway.
I'm standing on the platform in Potters Bar. The screen says the train is delayed, the announcement says the train is delayed, the station people say it's delayed....oh wait! My mobile says it's delayed as well!
I have since unsubscribed from this service.

 

[Inverness_App]

Just thought i would put my story on here aswell.

I was on a Virgin train from birmingham heading for Edinburgh where i would change and head to inverness. we left birmingham at approx 11:00. just as we were approaching leeds the conductor announced over the tannoy that this train will be cancelled in leeds. spoke to staff in leeds station on how i could get home and they got me on a train to york where i would get the East Coast service direct to Inverness. Got to york at approx 14:00 and i seen the departure boards. Inverness via edinburgh was on the board and all it said was delayed. so again found some station staff and asked for some info. all they said was to wait by the departure boards for up to date advice. eventually at about 18:00 after speaking to staff again they said busses were taking people from york to newcastle. this must have just happened as when directed to the car park the que was of a reasonable size and soon after it was massive. eventually got a bus at about 19:00 as every bus before that was going to other places. got to newcastle at about 21:30 were we were directed to platform 2 to catch a train to edinburgh. on the train the conductor came round everyone asking who had further to go than edinburgh. he had a wee chuckle when i said Inverness. close to edinburgh the conductor announced that all people travelling further than edinburgh were to make there way to the east coast office at platform 11. i got there and was pleased to be told that a taxi was booked for me. i was very pleased to arrive in inverness at about 04:30

summary
Birmingham to Edinburgh - cancelled at Leeds
Leeds to York
York station for approx 5 hours
York to Newcastle by bus
Newcastle to Edinburgh
Edinburgh to Inverness by taxi

total day 17.5 hours

 

[HST Power]

Just thought i would put my story on here aswell.

I was on a Virgin train from birmingham heading for Edinburgh where i would change and head to inverness. we left birmingham at approx 11:00. just as we were approaching leeds the conductor announced over the tannoy that this train will be cancelled in leeds. spoke to staff in leeds station on how i could get home and they got me on a train to york where i would get the East Coast service direct to Inverness. Got to york at approx 14:00 and i seen the departure boards. Inverness via edinburgh was on the board and all it said was delayed. so again found some station staff and asked for some info. all they said was to wait by the departure boards for up to date advice. eventually at about 18:00 after speaking to staff again they said busses were taking people from york to newcastle. this must have just happened as when directed to the car park the que was of a reasonable size and soon after it was massive. eventually got a bus at about 19:00 as every bus before that was going to other places. got to newcastle at about 21:30 were we were directed to platform 2 to catch a train to edinburgh. on the train the conductor came round everyone asking who had further to go than edinburgh. he had a wee chuckle when i said Inverness. close to edinburgh the conductor announced that all people travelling further than edinburgh were to make there way to the east coast office at platform 11. i got there and was pleased to be told that a taxi was booked for me. i was very pleased to arrive in inverness at about 04:30

summary
Birmingham to Edinburgh - cancelled at Leeds
Leeds to York
York station for approx 5 hours
York to Newcastle by bus
Newcastle to Edinburgh
Edinburgh to Inverness by taxi

total day 17.5 hours

Goodness me! That really sounds like one hellish journey! I've got an image stuck in my head of a chuckling Geordie conductor! So, will you be travelling with East Coast again?

 

[crewmeal]

Virgin only go up the west coast to Scotland, Cross Country go via Leeds

 

[OxtedL]

Virgin only go up the west coast to Scotland, Cross Country go via Leeds

I was thinking this, but resisted the temptation. I think we could probably work out what was meant.

Ouch. Long journey. Puts rail replacement bus services to Woldingham into perspective.

 

[strange6]

Virgin only go up the west coast to Scotland, Cross Country go via Leeds

I was going to mention that. Virgin Birmingham to Endinburgh go VIA the WCML through Wigan, Lancaster, Carlisle. Nowhere near Leeds

 

[amcluesent]

>total day 17.5 hours<

Has to be a 'delay-repay' in there somewhere...

 

[Aictos]

Final figures were:

Full Cancellations Direct - 26 trains
Full Cancellations Reaction - 2 trains
Total Cancellations - 28 trains

Part Cancellations Direct - 83 trains
Part Cancellations Reaction - 5 trains
Total Part Cancellations - 88 trains

Trains Delayed Direct - 98 trains
Trains Delayed Reaction - 238 trains
Total Trains Delayed - 292 trains

Delay Minutes Direct - 6076 minutes
Delay Minutes Reaction - 2161 minutes
Total Delay Minutes - 8237 minutes

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

From what I can gather, it wasnt software failure, but hardware failure on the York-Northllerton workstation, which required a rebuild to get working again.

 

[strange6]

From what I can gather, it wasnt software failure, but hardware failure on the York-Northllerton workstation, which required a rebuild to get working again.

I bet it's cost us taxpayers a good few quid in compensation!

 

[YorkshireBear]

now all the no enough information its a disgrace stories are slowly coming out. Poor EC staff. Not their fault yet they will take brunt of it.

 

[Anon Mouse]

I travelled from Poole to Newcastle last night. 17.40 Poole to Waterloo dead on time, tube to Euston no bother, walked to Kings Cross, simples!
Got to the Cross and it was bedlam, no 21.00 to Newcastle on the screen, only the 22.00 to Leeds and hardly any staff with info.

Guy at information desk told us it was cancelled and that we could go to Leeds, but no forward transport was provided.

Guy at ticket office, grunted and pointed at compensation forms and suggested trying again the next day. I called our Control to advise I was stuck at Kings Cross and after Control made a phone call I was called back and told to travel to Leeds and take it from there. The doors were open on the Leeds service at 21.00 so I told my Wife to grab a seat and I went to get some food.

Random passenger told me that he had been told the Leeds train would continuie to Newcastle confirmed by garbled announcement. Control rang me to confirm this info.

Train packed and no ticket check (don't blame him!) but frequent and helpful announcements. Train left at 22.00, arrived at Newcastle 03.25ish

Happy that EC (eventually) sorted something out, but annoyed and disgusted at the lack of knowledgeable staff and any forward thinking. Yes, not 100% the staffs fault but some information should have been forthcoming. It seemed people were being fobbed off into paying for a hotel room to put people off joining an already busy service. I expected much more.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I travelled from Poole to Newcastle last night. 17.40 Poole to Waterloo dead on time, tube to Euston no bother, walked to Kings Cross, simples!
Got to the Cross and it was bedlam, no 21.00 to Newcastle on the screen, only the 22.00 to Leeds and hardly any staff with info.

Guy at information desk told us it was cancelled and that we could go to Leeds, but no forward transport was provided.

Guy at ticket office, grunted and pointed at compensation forms and suggested trying again the next day. I called our Control to advise I was stuck at Kings Cross and after Control made a phone call I was called back and told to travel to Leeds and take it from there. The doors were open on the Leeds service at 21.00 so I told my Wife to grab a seat and I went to get some food.

Random passenger told me that he had been told the Leeds train would continuie to Newcastle confirmed by garbled announcement. Control rang me to confirm this info.

Train packed and no ticket check (don't blame him!) but frequent and helpful announcements. Train left at 22.00, arrived at Newcastle 03.25ish

Happy that EC (eventually) sorted something out, but annoyed and disgusted at the lack of knowledgeable staff and any forward thinking. Yes, not 100% the staffs fault but some information should have been forthcoming. It seemed people were being fobbed off into paying for a hotel room to put people off joining an already busy service. I expected much more.

Staff didnt have any information, it took hours for information to spread as to what had happened. It wasnt the best reaction in the world but as discussed here it was beyond a normal signal failure it was very very rare. I thought EC did okay to implement the timetable in the evening. Not well but okay.

 

[HST Power]

Well that's certainly suprised me. I've travelled with East Coast on a number of occasions and they've always been excellent. When delayed, the staff are helpful and very organised. I'm always impressed with the good service they offer.

 

[Aictos]

Well that's certainly suprised me. I've travelled with East Coast on a number of occasions and they've always been excellent. When delayed, the staff are helpful and very organised. I'm always impressed with the good service they offer.

Indeed however when East Coast do have to cancel a calling stop on one of it's services, it is normally considered polite to advise the station in question rather then leave it's passengers stranded as the train goes though non stop at 125mph!

However the few times I've been stranded onboard a East Coast, I've been lucky that there's a decent crew onboard who are more then helpful and well organised.

 

[island]

Hopefully they'll process my delay claim from the Leeds train a fortnight ago before the mound of claims they get for this one!

 

[Yorkswatcher]

I was on the 20:03 XC from Birmingham this is due to head further north than Leeds. Was pretty busy with North East fans heading back from Cardiff. Who were told at Leeds to get a TPE to York and then see whats available when you get to York.

 

[HST Power]

I was on the 20:03 XC from Birmingham this is due to head further north than Leeds. Was pretty busy with North East fans heading back from Cardiff. Who were told at Leeds to get a TPE to York and then see whats available when you get to York.

Well that is pretty bad service. What happened at York?

 

[MCR247]

I bet it's cost us taxpayers a good few quid in compensation!

Why do you say that?

 

[HST Power]

Why do you say that?

Well, it probably wasn't cheap to fix all the hardware!

 

[MCR247]

Why would that be compensation?

 

[HST Power]

Why would that be compensation?

I think he either means:

A) It would be expensive to repay the passengers because of the hardware failure

B) It would be expensive to repair the hardware

Probably A. Don't quote me on it!

 

[stug]

I was on the 20:03 XC from Birmingham this is due to head further north than Leeds. Was pretty busy with North East fans heading back from Cardiff. Who were told at Leeds to get a TPE to York and then see whats available when you get to York.

In fairness to XC, doesn't the 2003 from Birmingham terminate at Leeds normally?