Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[73128]

If class 387s start being used between Didcot and Swindon from Tuesday, I'll be very impressed, given the railway industry's reputation for moving quickly (or not!).

there was a 12 car crew training trip out at lunchtime today.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Not universally. I know Radio Shack/Tandy used to issue what they called "rain checks" if an item was out of stock. Though this might be mainly a US practice.

A rain check is an American phrase and was first used when baseball games were rained out and fans were issued with vouchers that allowed them to return and watch another game.

 

[Philip]

Not the same problem exactly but similar to Northern's problems with the 195s, which has seen their partial withdrawal too.

 

[73128]

Current LNER information use of next week or full refunds, and road transport north of Edinburgh (since presumably ScotRail wouldn't hire them a connecting train or two) .
-----------------------------------------

More trains than usual needing repairs at the same time means LNER services are subject to severe delays and cancellations today.

Customers are advised to not travel on LNER services today. Customers wishing to travel from Monday 10 May, should check closer to the time of travel.

You are encouraged to use an alternative mode of transport to complete your journey today.

Customer Advice:

Due to social distancing requirements, seats are extremely limited on services and reservations are mandatory. Please visit the LNER website for more information.

LNER tickets for today or yesterday are valid up to and including Sunday 16 May.

If you decide not to travel, a full refund is available. Please contact your original point of ticket purchase within 28 days to claim your refund.

Ticket Acceptance:

You may use routes listed on the following disruption map.

LNER tickets will be valid with the following train operating companies:

• Avanti West Coast between London Euston and Manchester for customers with an open ticket
• TransPennine Express between Manchester, Leeds and York and Edinburgh.
• East Midlands Railway between London St Pancras International and Sheffield
• Northern services via any other reasonable route
• Thameslink services between London, Stevenage and Peterborough

Rail replacement coaches are in place between Edinburgh and Inverness / Aberdeen.

 

[Smidster]

On some social media messages where they have referred to them as Hitachi/Class 8XX trains people have replied asking if that means their Azuma trains are unaffected. It's clear that changing their messaging is confusing some people.

If as a company you religously refer to your fleet as Azuma when everything is going great then you really should also be doing this at times like this.

It is tricky.

From a brand management perspective they have put an awful lot of time and resource into the "Azuma" brand and saying that it is the salt of the earth. That someone goes south if only two years after introduction you are finding serious manufacturing problems across the entire fleet.

On the other hand first rule should always be to be honest with people - it doesn't even need to be so bad if they spin the safety and precautionary elements.

 

[43066]

Non-provision of the service paid for is unlikely to constitute discharge of the TOCs responsibilities

“Reasonable endeavours” to provide said service, was the requirement, as posted above?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I does reopen the coaches versus unit argument again. At least coach stock can be short formed. Oh well not much we can do about that now.

Double units can as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2021 ==

I can't say i've met anyone who particularly enjoys the aroma inside a voyager.!

Edit: That said, if it's that or a very long wait.....

Number of coaches might actually have been useful, though, so people could avoid the 4-car Voyagers and use the 5s and HSTs instead.

 

[73128]

Any feeling if this is having a wider impact on GWRs other services? I'm guessing if they are running shuttles with the Turbos then they must be being taken from elsewhere? So presumably risks of short formations on other services and I guess those other services also being busier (e.g. Cardiff to Newport / Bristol Temple Meads).

no because Didcot to Oxford and Reading to Basingstoke are still only hourly on weekdays (but due to go back to half hourly next Monday) and Gatwick services are still mostly suspended. Still several sets on Reading today even after three put out on north cotswold.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti West Coast between London Euston and Manchester for customers with an open ticket

We all know what that means, but would it have hurt them to say "Super Off Peak, Off Peak or Anytime" so the public weren't confused?

Really they should be paying Avanti to accept any ticket if needed, though.

 

[800001]

A semblance of a GWR plan is coming together for Monday:

1. South Wales services to run Reading to Newport 1tph (IETs)
2. Crosscountry to run Swindon <> Bristol TM approximately 1tph (irregular pattern). Voyagers and HSTs
3. 387 calling Paddington <> Didcot (only calling Reading) 1tph
4. North Cotswold running Oxford to Worcester 2tp3h (Turbos)
5. South Cotswold running Gloucester to Swindon 1tph
6. Nothing direct to West Country yet - except the sleeper.

Timetables slowly being updated.

Hearing very strong internal rumours that only 3 IETs available for use by GWR tomorrow.
All GWR and LNER having further checks this evening, and can not leave depots until latest safety check has been completed.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

We all know what that means, but would it have hurt them to say "Super Off Peak, Off Peak or Anytime" so the public weren't confused?

Really they should be paying Avanti to accept any ticket if needed, though.

It’s disgusting. The amount of times Avanti have had to send me onto LNER, Chiltern and CrossCountry because their trains are all cancelled and now they won’t even take Scotland passengers on their direct trains to Scotland plus leaving Advance ticket holders helpless at the station? I’m shocked at Avanti.

 

[irish_rail]

A semblance of a GWR plan is coming together for Monday:

1. South Wales services to run Reading to Newport 1tph (IETs)
2. Crosscountry to run Swindon <> Bristol TM approximately 1tph (irregular pattern). Voyagers and HSTs
3. 387 calling Paddington <> Didcot (only calling Reading) 1tph
4. North Cotswold running Oxford to Worcester 2tp3h (Turbos)
5. South Cotswold running Gloucester to Swindon 1tph
6. Nothing direct to West Country yet - except the sleeper.

Timetables slowly being updated.

So nothing for the South West. Surprise surprise . Always the poor man of GWR despite being the most "intercity".

 

[Ant1966]

Hi Guys. Can you help. Had a trip planned to Bristol from Reading Wednesday with 1st Class Advance. GWR now showing acceptance on Cross Country, Chiltern, SWR, Avanti and West Mids by 'Any reasonable route'. Was thinking of XC RDG-BNS-Bristol. Would that be 'Reasonable'. How can a customer find out what's considered 'reasonable'?

 

[Horizon22]

What about Bedwyn? Is this a turbo from Reading??

Turbo Bedwyn <> Newbury

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2021 ==

Hi Guys. Can you help. Had a trip planned to Bristol from Reading Wednesday with 1st Class Advance. GWR now showing acceptance on Cross Country, Chiltern, SWR, Avanti and West Mids by 'Any reasonable route'. Was thinking of XC RDG-BNS-Bristol. Would that be 'Reasonable'. How can a customer find out what's considered 'reasonable'?

Probably XC Bristol - Swindon, then GWR Swindon - Reading (The ex-Newport service)

 

[JonathanH]

So nothing for the South West. Surprise surprise . Always the poor man of GWR despite being the most "intercity".

As much for the South West as anywhere else, just need to go from London via Bristol where XC and GWR connections are available onwards. What do you expect with only three IETs available and the need to run the local service?

 

[73128]

I see GWR have been running some Swindon - Bristol shuttles today. What stock have they been using?

one was an 800 in fact running Didcot to Bristol TM. Not sure what the other was but it may well have been the fifth 800 out.

A 5 car ran Paddington to Exeter to Paddington to Plymouth to Paddington(on its way back now); another 5 car and a 9 car ran to and from Swansea.

Three Turbos on North Cotswold (Reading to Worcester) and I understand 158s on south Cotswold.

 

[Horizon22]

So nothing for the South West. Surprise surprise . Always the poor man of GWR despite being the most "intercity".

If you only have 3 sets it is of course extreme prioritisation, and at least there are alternative connections. You can't really get to Bristol or S. Wales from London otherwise.

 

[Class 317]

So nothing for the South West. Surprise surprise . Always the poor man of GWR despite being the most "intercity".

Given that XC operate to Bristol and SWR from Exeter tomorrow it makes sense to deploy the very limited resources elsewhere.

If they offered services to West country resources would be spread even more thinly!

 

[JonathanH]

Hi Guys. Can you help. Had a trip planned to Bristol from Reading Wednesday with 1st Class Advance. GWR now showing acceptance on Cross Country, Chiltern, SWR, Avanti and West Mids by 'Any reasonable route'. Was thinking of XC RDG-BNS-Bristol. Would that be 'Reasonable'. How can a customer find out what's considered 'reasonable'?

Going via Birmingham would be a bit drastic if there is a 387 service to Swindon by Wednesday and the Cross Country connection to Bristol.

If not, Reading - Basingstoke - Salisbury - Bristol might be better.

 

[spark001uk]

Thanks - Son's Girlfriend is trying to get from Buntingford to Falmouth , Friday Night or Saturday morning to see him. I think the situation is what they call " fluid" at the moment.

Hmm, tricky. If she had to do it, probably best to go on the Friday (14th) to avoid any engineering work. For the least amount of changes I'd say go Waterloo - Exeter (have to change at Salisbury by the looks of it), then get a stopper from Exeter to Truro and down to Falmouth.
Coming all the way from Buntingford (starting at Stevenage or thereabouts I assume?) I'd probably say her journey wants to start about midday though !

 

[RolandR]

This is the temporary LNER timetable for 10 - 14 May.

LNER 10 - 14 May 2021

 

[73128]

Sounds like tomorrow's GWR availability will be just 3 sets.

from what source? if it is three trains doing Reading to Newport hourly (~75 min run plus turn round) it could be the 9 car plus two pairs of 5. (I heard that 5 sets were available again Monday).

 

[yorksrob]

Given that XC operate to Bristol and SWR from Exeter tomorrow it makes sense to deploy the very limited resources elsewhere.

Given that all the stops are being pulled out, I wonder if NR will be called upon to postpone their engineering works on the SW main line.

 

[1D53]

from what source?

NWR Log.

 

[ScouserGirl]

from what source? if it is three trains doing Reading to Newport hourly (~75 min run plus turn round) it could be the 9 car plus two pairs of 5. (I heard that 5 sets were available again Monday).

It definitely is 3 sets at the moment heard from my partner who works at GWR.

 

[Tim_UK]

TPE have pulled them all out of traffic.

I've seen a TPE 801 on the move through Huddersfield today. About 1600h, give or take 30 mins. I was just driving past. It might not have been in service, but it was on the move.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Hoping that this next week sees some further trains released back into service. On the 19th my son is travelling up from Doncaster to Aberdeen to see me for the first time in 7 months. Absolutely not LNER's fault, they're working on bring Mk4s out of mothballs this week, hopefully that frees up enough Azumas for Scottish services north of Edinburgh for w/c 17th.

 

[AlexNL]

Is there an element of over the top health and safety here?

On the contrary, this is a demonstration of a safety culture working as intended. A serious fault has been identified and the industry takes measures to mitigate any potential consequences.

I find it hard to believe that these sort of faults haven't come up before, yet I don't think we've had a whole fleet family of units withdrawn from service for inspection.

In 1998 the entire fleet of IC225s was withdrawn from service for inspection after one derailed at Sandy.

Why not implement temporary speed restrictions and then check the unit at the end of the day's service, or on its next maintenance day?

The safest train is a train which is not moving. In this case, the issue has been deemed serious enough by qualified professionals that immediate inspection of the entire fleet was necessary, and immediate withdrawal from service of units which have not passed inspection.

Almost the entire GWR fleet has been disqualified, nobody responsible for train operations will make such a decision if it's not absolutely necessary. The financial and reputational impact this issue will have on the railways is massive.

If cracks were found on one unit during an inspection (probably a fitter noticing something being wrong) and then were found on a lot of different units as well, there's little data available about how long this has been an issue. It's possible that the issue developed gradually over time, but it's very well possible that the issue has appeared over the course of a few weeks. That makes it hard to predict how it will further develop, at what timeframe, and for how long a unit can continue to be used safely until the problem gets "too big".

There's also the matter of "what speed is still effective?" and "how does it fit into the timetable?". Running a 125mph train at 60mph will significantly lengthen journeys, and if it's not certain if a speed restriction will even mitigate the problem... why bother?

Would this have happened if the railways were as busy now as they were before the pandemic?

Yes.

 

[JonathanH]

Given that all the stops are being pulled out, I wonder if NR will be called upon to postpone their engineering works on the SW main line.

Hasn't it been suggested upthread that as a junction renewal it isn't the sort of thing that can just be postponed?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...for-safety-checks.217119/page-15#post-5123125

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hoping that this next week sees some further trains released back into service. On the 19th my son is travelling up from Doncaster to Aberdeen to see me for the first time in 7 months. Absolutely not LNER's fault, they're working on bring Mk4s out of mothballs this week, hopefully that frees up enough Azumas for Scottish services north of Edinburgh for w/c 17th.

If not, ScotRail should allow him to travel with them from Edinburgh