EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[RichmondCommu]

See, you just don't care. Just because other people have it bad doesn't mean I won't. My life will be over and I might as well be dead.

Also, what about retiring without working? That's a different story.

Are you trying to compare your life to that of a Syrian who has lost their home and their family, so effectively they have nothing? Now that is definitely a different story!

 

[me123]

It'll be interesting to see the final list including which MPs didn't vote in the end (and also so we can see who voted against their constituents)...

The Mail has identified nine "Remoaners-in-Chief" ( :roll: ) who voted against their constituents. These are:

Graham Allen (Labour, Nottingham North)
Chris Bryant (Labour, Rhondda)
Ann Clwyd (Labour, Cynon Valley)
Mary Creagh (Labour, Wakefield)
Paul Farrelly (Labour, Newcastle-Under-Lyme)
Catherine McKinnell (Labour, Newcastle upon Tyne North)
Dr Alan Whitehead (Labour, Southampton, Test)
Tom Brake (Lib Dem, Carshalton and Wallington)
Eilidh Whiteford (SNP, Banff and Buchan)

Of course, the constituencies in general didn't declare their results. So this is no small part speculation. The results were announced in regions, although some constituencies declared their local results separately (Wikipedia has the results in one page). The only MP above who could be said to have "defied his constituents" was Graham Allen for Nottingham North - the rest is speculation based on dubious estimates rather than an actual declaration.

It's also interesting to note that a large number of MPs probably voted to leave the EU when their constituents voted to stay. Funnily enough, the Mail hasn't taken the time to identify them...

 

[radamfi]

Are you trying to compare your life to that of a Syrian who has lost their home and their family, so effectively they have nothing? Now that is definitely a different story!

Don't go off topic onto something else. You might as well say that we don't need to worry about any problem as long as it is not the absolute worst thing in the world.

Address the issue of retiring in the EU.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Don't go off topic onto something else. You might as well say that we don't need to worry about any problem as long as it is not the absolute worst thing in the world.

No I just think that you should stop being hysterical.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Address the issue of retiring in the EU.

Well perhaps you won't be able to.

 

[radamfi]

Well perhaps you won't be able to.

How is that acceptable?

 

[RichmondCommu]

How is that acceptable?

I didn't say it was. However as I said before there are far greater problems in the world than yours. Having to retire in this country is not exactly a hardship.

 

[radamfi]

I didn't say it was. However as I said before there are far greater problems in the world than yours. Having to retire in this country is not exactly a hardship.

I have planned my entire working life to retire in the EU. There has been a lifelong understanding that it would be possible. I have acted in good faith.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I have planned my entire working life to retire in the EU. There has been a lifelong understanding that it would be possible. I have acted in good faith.

What happens if you meet a nice lady / man who doesn't want to retire to a foreign land. Would you not change your plans for them?

 

[radamfi]

What happens if you meet a nice lady / man who doesn't want to retire to a foreign land. Would you not change your plans for them?

I already have a partner. The plan was to wait until she retires. I am already compromising by staying here for the time being. If I was on my own I would have gone years ago.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I already have a partner. The plan was to wait until she retires. I am already compromising by staying here for the time being. If I was on my own I would have gone years ago.

If you really wanted to live overseas I think you would have moved a long time a go. Perhaps the desire to move wasn't strong enough.

 

[radamfi]

If you really wanted to live overseas I think you would have moved a long time a go. Perhaps the desire to move wasn't strong enough.

I said the other day that I would have gone after university but I was too risk averse and of course I knew that I could go at any time in the future because of EU membership.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I said the other day that I would have gone after university but I was too risk averse and of course I knew that I could go at any time in the future because of EU membership.

So when did you stop being risk averse?

 

[radamfi]

So when did you stop being risk averse?

After becoming financially independent after saving and investing for many years, therefore meaning there would be little risk in leaving. After university I had no money so I had to think of the most sensible way of getting a job and pursuing a career.

 

[Trog]

No one knows for sure, but surely that's looking like the most likely result? So if it is the final outcome, is it acceptable?

As it is the democratically expressed will of the majority almost by definition yes.

 

[radamfi]

As it is the democratically expressed will of the majority almost by definition yes.

No, people voted to leave the EU, not the single market and there was an understanding that we would stay in the single market in the event of a Leave vote.

 

[AlterEgo]

No, people voted to leave the EU, not the single market and there was an understanding that we would stay in the single market in the event of a Leave vote.

Being in single market doesn't in itself confer absolute freedom of movement.

It does suck - I voted remain - but I don't think you're helping yourself by getting so upset about it. Perspective is important; many people experience much bigger setbacks than this and either overcome them or realign their life objectives.

In any case, freedom of movement may end up being something we retain depending on the deal we strike with Europe.

Better to look on the bright side.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The Mail has identified nine "Remoaners-in-Chief" ( :roll: ) who voted against their constituents. These are:

Graham Allen (Labour, Nottingham North)
Chris Bryant (Labour, Rhondda)
Ann Clwyd (Labour, Cynon Valley)
Mary Creagh (Labour, Wakefield)
Paul Farrelly (Labour, Newcastle-Under-Lyme)
Catherine McKinnell (Labour, Newcastle upon Tyne North)
Dr Alan Whitehead (Labour, Southampton, Test)
Tom Brake (Lib Dem, Carshalton and Wallington)
Eilidh Whiteford (SNP, Banff and Buchan)

Excellent! I shall remember those names as principled people who are prepared to stand up for their beliefs and for what is right for the country, even in the face of the kind of mass-hysteria and crude nationalism that papers such as the Daily Mail like to go in for!

 

[Domh245]

The Mail has identified nine "Remoaners-in-Chief" ( :roll: ) who voted against their constituents. These are:

Graham Allen (Labour, Nottingham North)
Chris Bryant (Labour, Rhondda)
Ann Clwyd (Labour, Cynon Valley)
Mary Creagh (Labour, Wakefield)
Paul Farrelly (Labour, Newcastle-Under-Lyme)
Catherine McKinnell (Labour, Newcastle upon Tyne North)
Dr Alan Whitehead (Labour, Southampton, Test)
Tom Brake (Lib Dem, Carshalton and Wallington)
Eilidh Whiteford (SNP, Banff and Buchan)

Of course, the constituencies in general didn't declare their results. So this is no small part speculation. The results were announced in regions, although some constituencies declared their local results separately (Wikipedia has the results in one page). The only MP above who could be said to have "defied his constituents" was Graham Allen for Nottingham North - the rest is speculation based on dubious estimates rather than an actual declaration.

I wasn't aware of the existence of that Wikipedia page, so that was interesting to see. I stand corrected on the member for Nottingham South!

It's also interesting to note that a large number of MPs probably voted to leave the EU when their constituents voted to stay. Funnily enough, the Mail hasn't taken the time to identify them...

That was the main reason that I was interested in seeing the list. My "home home" MP (Mitcham and Morden) was not on the list of MPs who voted against the bill, which given that Merton was a 63% remain area, would mean that she probably* voted against her constituents, as did Stephen Hammond over in neighbouring Wimbledon. I suppose we could swap either of them for Tom Brake!

*Results for Merton aren't broken down into local wards unfortunately.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Owen Smith, who stood against Jeremy Corbyn a few months ago, voted against the Bill. However, he voted against not only the referendum vote but also against his own constituents who voted for Brexit.

Remember Owen Smith, along with another Labour MP who rebelled - Chris Bryant, represent constituencies who voted to leave but which will likely be hurt pretty badly by it (due to the lose of significant funding currently provided by the EU).

I guess it comes down to what we think an MP's job is. To represent the views of the constituency or to represent the best interests of that constituency.

 

[EM2]

No, people voted to leave the EU, not the single market and there was an understanding that we would stay in the single market in the event of a Leave vote.

Not from this Remainer. It was pretty clear to me that if we voted Leave, it was very likely that we would lose access to everything we gain in the EU and that included all four freedoms.
However, I didn't expect that to include things like Europol and Euratom.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I guess it comes down to what we think an MP's job is. To represent the views of the constituency or to represent the best interests of that constituency.

It is the constituency electorate, not "any best interests", who actually cast their votes that elect the MP.

 

[me123]

Excellent! I shall remember those names as principled people who are prepared to stand up for their beliefs and for what is right for the country, even in the face of the kind of mass-hysteria and crude nationalism that papers such as the Daily Mail like to go in for!

In the spirit of the Daily Mail, I have decided to have a look at those MPs that we know have voted to leave the EU whilst their constituents voted to remain. After all, since the Mail cares so passionately about democracy, I'm sure it's just a simple oversight that they haven't included these names for balance.

The names include:

Bob Stewart (Conservative - Beckenham)
Mr Nigel Dodds (Democratic Unionist Party - Belfast North)
Ms Gisela Stuart (Labour - Birmingham, Edgbaston)
Shabana Mahmood (Labour - Birmingham, Ladywood)
Steve McCabe (Labour - Birmingham, Selly Oak)
Charlotte Leslie (Conservative - Bristol North West)
Karin Smyth (Labour - Bristol South)
Thangam Debbonaire (Labour - Bristol West)
Robert Neill (Conservative - Bromley and Chislehurst)
Mary Robinson (Conservative - Cheadle)

That's the first ten. There's plenty more. (And, FWIW, all of these constituencies have declared their votes - these are not based on estimates).

I do this not in an attempt to "name and shame" the MPs, just to point out that the Mail's position that the nine MPs have "defied their constituents" is disgraceful, because:
1) Without actual constituency results, it cannot be said that the MPs "defied their constituents" (although it's probable that at least some of them did, there's no actual data to back this claim up - just estimates).
2) More than their number did the opposite, and have not been similarly named as a balanced publication would do.

 

[DarloRich]

you are trying to use the standards of rationality, critical thought and logic to understand the Daily Mail and its readers. That wont work.

 

[Railops]

See, you just don't care. Just because other people have it bad doesn't mean I won't. My life will be over and I might as well be dead.

When I watched my child slowly and painfully die over a period of 18 months at the age of 4 I never thought my life was over and wished I was dead,
That is because unlike you I'm not a complete drama queen who constantly seeks attention with your perceived idea that when we leave the EU you might as well kill yourself which you've already threatened.
I don't care if other posters back you up and indulge your attention seeking, that's up to them.
To declare you might as well be dead over what is in effect an extremely trivial event is ridiculous and an insult to people who have actual important things to worry about.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It is the constituency electorate, not "any best interests", who actually cast their votes that elect the MP.

That doesn't answer the question though does it.

Do we want MP's to just be blind sheep who do whatever the constituency electorate want?

Or do we want them to be intelligent (roll out the jokes now!) representatives who take our views on board but also are able to weigh up the pros and cons of an argument and choose the option that is best of the area, even if that is the opposite to what the constituency electorate have said they want?

 

[radamfi]

To declare you might as well be dead over what is in effect an extremely trivial event is ridiculous and an insult to people who have actual important things to worry about.

Just because you think something is trivial, doesn't mean it doesn't mean everything to someone else.

 

[backontrack]

Eilidh Whiteford (SNP, Banff and Buchan)

Banff and Buchan voted remain.

 

[DarloRich]

Just because you think something is trivial, doesn't mean it doesn't mean everything to someone else.

indeed - but perspective is also important.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[backontrack]

In the spirit of the Daily Mail, I have decided to have a look at those MPs that we know have voted to leave the EU whilst their constituents voted to remain. After all, since the Mail cares so passionately about democracy, I'm sure it's just a simple oversight that they haven't included these names for balance.

The names include:

Bob Stewart (Conservative - Beckenham)
Mr Nigel Dodds (Democratic Unionist Party - Belfast North)
Ms Gisela Stuart (Labour - Birmingham, Edgbaston)
Shabana Mahmood (Labour - Birmingham, Ladywood)
Steve McCabe (Labour - Birmingham, Selly Oak)
Charlotte Leslie (Conservative - Bristol North West)
Karin Smyth (Labour - Bristol South)
Thangam Debbonaire (Labour - Bristol West)
Robert Neill (Conservative - Bromley and Chislehurst)
Mary Robinson (Conservative - Cheadle)

That's the first ten. There's plenty more. (And, FWIW, all of these constituencies have declared their votes - these are not based on estimates).

I do this not in an attempt to "name and shame" the MPs, just to point out that the Mail's position that the nine MPs have "defied their constituents" is disgraceful, because:
1) Without actual constituency results, it cannot be said that the MPs "defied their constituents" (although it's probable that at least some of them did, there's no actual data to back this claim up - just estimates).
2) More than their number did the opposite, and have not been similarly named as a balanced publication would do.

Hi, did you find a full list somewhere? If so, please could you provide a link? Thanks