EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[nidave]

The state aid rules are supposedly designed to create a level playing field in the EU. The EU has no remit to require member states to set common tax rules (VAT aside).

State aid may include, but isn’t limited to, tax arrangements and is nothing whatsoever to do with ensuring a “fair share”* is paid as the previous poster wrongly stated.

If Ireland wants to incentivise investment by Apple by granting it favourable tax arrangements it should be free to do so, in my view, without any interference from the EU.

*In any case, a “fair share” is surely the minimum amount of tax that is legally required to be paid in accordance with relevant law and accounting principles. How can it possibly be determined in any other way?

So why is Ireland been reprimanded for offering two levels of tax based on a legally binding agreement. That they themdelves admit was wrong.

The eu is doing right by enforceing the treaty. It's exactly the same as you and your neighbor being part of paye and he pays 5% while you pay 20% that's wrong and against the rules and HMRC would be right to demand back tax. They are doing this with people who work in places like the BBC who do set shifts different scenario but simalar point. Please note I specifically mentioned paye in my reply.

Yo lu may think in your view it's fine but the law says differently.

 

[pemma]

But mastercard international and visa international already allow you to use your cards all over the world. I would expect this to continue (as I said with higher fees). Other card issuers might have a problem as might certain types of transactions. For example pre anthorisations on a debit card in the eu after we leave. But I am pretty confident I will still be able to get cash out in the eu with a visa or mastercard.

I can currently use my Visa Credit card in Europe without any fees and often with an exchange rate as good as or better than exchange rates for travel money. I still prefer to take enough travel money to cover all the transactions I expect to make as there's a chance the card won't work or won't be accepted somewhere. On the other hand my Visa debit card has high fees for use in Europe, whether it's a cash withdrawal or paying for something using it.

 

[pemma]

So why is Ireland been reprimanded for offering two levels of tax based on a legally binding agreement. That they themdelves admit was wrong.

The eu is doing right by enforceing the treaty. It's exactly the same as you and your neighbor being part of paye and he pays 5% while you pay 20% that's wrong and against the rules and HMRC would be right to demand back tax. They are doing this with people who work in places like the BBC who do set shifts different scenario but simalar point. Please note I specifically mentioned paye in my reply.

Yo lu may think in your view it's fine but the law says differently.

To make it worse what Ireland was doing was charging the correct rate to Irish businesses and charging a much lower rate to foreign businesses so that they choose Ireland over other countries (including the U.K.) I wonder what the Brexiteers would make of UK nationals paying 20% income tax and EU nationals being charged 5% income tax - that's the equivalent of what the Irish state was doing with businesses.

 

[Bromley boy]

You mean by allowing governments who signed a legally binding agreement to be held accountable for not giving the same tax rates to local businesses. Thereby giving subsidies for a handful of jobs (there are not many who actually work for Apple Ireland) to a trillion dollar company.

If they had of given the same rates to locals then the eu would not have to get involved. Even Ireland admits they under taxed the company and want to recover it but dispute its state aid.

"While the government fundamentally disagrees with the Commission's analysis in the Apple State Aid decision and is seeking an annulment of that decision in the European Courts, as committed members of the European Union, we have always confirmed that we would recover the alleged State aid," he said

It's state aid and Ireland have been caught out. State aid is illigal under eu rules and the fact you are on the side of Apple is sickening.this will go a long way to help the people of Ireland and will open the floodgates for simalar rulings.

Hopefully Vodafone, Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks etc all end up contributing more compared to the historic low rates compared to local smes.

So your happy with big global business basically playing the system and in ways small companies can't and the various governments loose out on billions of tax revenues ?? Amazon etc must love you. Corporate greed at its finest and you are making excuses for them. The shareholders send their thanks.

That should be a matter for the Irish government which is accountable to its electorate.

You mean those big global businesses that employ huge number of staff and contribute enormous sums of money to the economies in which they operate? Yes, very happy with them thanks!

I’d rather not strangle that particular golden goose by taxing them until the pips squeak and see then relocating abroad because a load of clueless lefties don’t like big business.

You do realise many shareholders are pension schemes?

Ireland are not asking to leave the EU are they. Plus it's the dup who are calling the shots for the conservative government in this matter as it props up the majority.

Irrelevant.

Ireland is an EU member state which shares a land border with a state that will soon be exiting.

I can’t stand the DUP and I’d much rather NI was ceded back to the ROI.

 

[nidave]

I can currently use my Visa Credit card in Europe without any fees and often with an exchange rate as good as or better than exchange rates for travel money. I still prefer to take enough travel money to cover all the transactions I expect to make as there's a chance the card won't work or won't be accepted somewhere. On the other hand my Visa debit card has high fees for use in Europe, whether it's a cash withdrawal or paying for something using it.

Yea it doesn't mean it will stop working once we leave. I just think the fees will be higher. As much as I am a so called remoner this is a hyperbolic tweet based on miss understanding of banking systems. (my knowledge of them is very limited I will admit)

 

[Bromley boy]

So why is Ireland been reprimanded for offering two levels of tax based on a legally binding agreement. That they themdelves admit was wrong.

The eu is doing right by enforceing the treaty. It's exactly the same as you and your neighbor being part of paye and he pays 5% while you pay 20% that's wrong and against the rules and HMRC would be right to demand back tax. They are doing this with people who work in places like the BBC who do set shifts different scenario but simalar point. Please note I specifically mentioned paye in my reply.

Yo lu may think in your view it's fine but the law says differently.

Self employed people in the U.K. pay less tax than I do as a PAYE tax payer. That’s fine by me. Different sizes of business benefit from different tax rates, and small businesses benefit from various reliefs.

If Ireland wants to incentivise Apple to invest there, that should be none of the EU’s concern.

I completely reject the notion of “legally binding” in the context of EU law. No government should enter into an agreement that prevents it determining its own domestic fiscal policy, in my view. But of course the EU wants meddle with absolutely everything.

The sooner we leave the whole sorry charade the better as far as I’m concerned.

 

[nidave]

That should be a matter for the Irish government which is accountable to its electorate.

No the Irish government signed an agreement and has been taken to task on the agreement.

You mean those big global businesses that employ huge number of staff and contribute enormous sums of money to the economies in which they operate? Yes, very happy with them thanks!

Those companies who have lots of forigen migrant workers on zero hours contracts. Who while the workers bring money into the economy the companies dont pay the same as local home grown business. This might be why you hate the eu so much. They seem to belive in fairness. You don't.

I’d rather not strangle that particular golden goose by taxing them until the pips squeak and see then relocating abroad because a load of clueless lefties don’t like big business.

By shareholders you do realise many shareholders are pension schemes?

Ireland is an EU member state which shares a land border with a state that will soon be exiting.

I can’t stand the DUP and I’d much rather NI was ceded back to the ROI.

You might not like the dup but they hold a lot of the cards. Besides you have no right to decide the fate of either n. Ireland or ROI. Your idiotic vote has helped caused the trouble in the island of Ireland and your so ambivalent about it.

I think n. Ireland would be better off than ever before as part of Ireland and the eu. Just as Scotland will be once they leave the UK. It's not the breakup of the EU this is starting. It's the dismantling of the UK.

That's not even considering Gibraltar but you don't seem to give a stuff about anyone but yourself. It would be a shame that we think about how our actions impact others.

 

[Bromley boy]

No the Irish government signed an agreement and has been taken to task on the agreement.

Well perhaps they shouldn’t have done? Which other areas of governance would you like to see signed away to the EU by its member states?

Those companies who have lots of forigen migrant workers on zero hours contracts. Who while the workers bring money into the economy the companies dont pay the same as local home grown business. This might be why you hate the eu so much. They seem to belive in fairness. You don't.

Well if they’re are doing that it’s an excellent argument against the EU’s ridiculous free movement policy!

You might not like the dup but they hold a lot of the cards. Besides you have no right to decide the fate of either n. Ireland or ROI. Your idiotic vote has helped caused the trouble in the island of Ireland and your so ambivalent about it.

Oh so my leave vote in 2016 is what has caused the trouble on the island of Ireland is it?Last time I checked those issues had been rumbling on for hundreds of years.

How ironic that you call me idiotic and then say that.

I think n. Ireland would be better off than ever before as part of Ireland and the eu. Just as Scotland will be once they leave the UK. It's not the breakup of the EU this is starting. It's the dismantling of the UK.

That's not even considering Gibraltar but you don't seem to give a stuff about anyone but yourself. It would be a shame that we think about how our actions impact others.

You’re right, I couldn’t give a stuff about Gibraltar or Scotland.

In any case the idea of Scotland leaving the U.K. is laughable given that it wouldn’t be economically viable as an independent country without taxation revenues flowing from westminster. Most sensible Scots know this, of course, which is why they voted to remain in the U.K.

If they broke away from the U.K. they’d have to embark on a lengthy process to apply to join the EU (Spain will be keeping a suspiscious eye on those developments due to the Catalan issue) - so Scotland will be leaving the EU either way.

 

[nidave]

I voted for peace. Your vote has put my vote in the good Friday agreement and put the whole thing into jepordy.

Your actions are impacting others and you don't give a stuff.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Doesn't give a fig about the Scots either, nice.

 

[AlterEgo]

[

Given that one of the main points of the EU is to facilitate trade between member states, it makes sense to try and have greater commonality in all the EU states when it comes to things like tax. A common complaint about big multi-national companies is that they don't pay their fare share, but if you want to actually deal with this then you have to set common tax rules and rates in all the countries, so arguably the EU should be applauded for taking steps in the right direction?

In short, what you’re saying is member states cede financial sovereignty to the EU.

 

[Basher]

How come you are paying for your dental treatment at 70?



Nearly every study shows that immigrants are net contributors. These immigrants are generally younger, healthier people who require less of the state while at the same time contributing to your free prescriptions and dental care. With an ageing population we need more of the same.

So called asylum seekers? What does that mean? The threshold for asylum is pretty high. A compassionate caring state should provide safety and security to anyone fleeing conflict and persecution.



A housing market crash is not a good thing. Negative equity.





BBC public service news across all media is not allowed to take or accept external funding.

BBC World Service is now entirely funded by the licence fee.

No other BBC produced programming receives grants from the EU. Independent content producers who sell product to the BBC may receive grants that may be part-funded by the EU, which provide incentives to make programmes in particular regions of the UK. In 2014-15, less than 2% of independently-produced programmes on the BBC used such incentives, which accounted for an average of 6% of their programme budgets.

BBC Research & Development does receive grants from the EU. Grants for research into broadcasting technology that have contributed to developments such as digital TV and DAB digital radio. Other bodies, unrelated to the BBC, have received similar grants - ITV, SKY... state an commercial broadcasters across the EU. BBC R&D receives less than £1m a year in such grants. Less than 1% of its budget. Otherwise R&D is funded by the licence fee.

Whether we should have a licence fee funded broadcaster or not has nothing to do with the EU so statements about selling it off are irrelevant to this thread.

I could rebut nearly every other statement of yours but can't be bothered. Nothing you've said is offering positives for leaving the EU.

How come you are paying for your dental treatment at 70?



Nearly every study shows that immigrants are net contributors. These immigrants are generally younger, healthier people who require less of the state while at the same time contributing to your free prescriptions and dental care. With an ageing population we need more of the same.

So called asylum seekers? What does that mean? The threshold for asylum is pretty high. A compassionate caring state should provide safety and security to anyone fleeing conflict and persecution.



A housing market crash is not a good thing. Negative equity.



BBC public service news across all media is not allowed to take or accept external funding.

BBC World Service is now entirely funded by the licence fee.

No other BBC produced programming receives grants from the EU. Independent content producers who sell product to the BBC may receive grants that may be part-funded by the EU, which provide incentives to make programmes in particular regions of the UK. In 2014-15, less than 2% of independently-produced programmes on the BBC used such incentives, which accounted for an average of 6% of their programme budgets.

BBC Research & Development does receive grants from the EU. Grants for research into broadcasting technology that have contributed to developments such as digital TV and DAB digital radio. Other bodies, unrelated to the BBC, have received similar grants - ITV, SKY... state an commercial broadcasters across the EU. BBC R&D receives less than £1m a year in such grants. Less than 1% of its budget. Otherwise R&D is funded by the licence fee.

Whether we should have a licence fee funded broadcaster or not has nothing to do with the EU so statements about selling it off are irrelevant to this thread.

I could rebut nearly every other statement of yours but can't be bothered. Nothing you've said is offering positives for leaving the EU.

Negative equity is a problem of people buying what they can not afford, if the rainy day comes
I migrants did not pay tax and NI from 16 yrs old so will get pension credit and full use of the government services, on top of that they want interpreters NHS pays.
I suggest these fleeing people are encourage to go and fight for their country. My grand farther at 14 lied about his age to go and fight for this kingdom, he did not run away.

BBC get millions of EU see https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/7...dcasting-filming-David-Davies-Get-Britain-Out
Look to see who paid for your so called studies, bet it was financed by organisations who receive benefit if we stay in the EU.
All dental has to be paid for, including check ups. Eye tests only are free.
Please check your facts

 

[nidave]

[


In short, what you’re saying is member states cede financial sovereignty to the EU.

No. They sign up to a treaty which if they break the eu can intervene. State aid is illigal in the eu and under Irish law.

 

[Basher]

Oh my I don't know where to start. Let's start with we saved Europe in WW2, we didn't do it alone. The UK armed forces are chock full of personnel not from the UK. Then I'll move on to why the UK should have to come up with a plan and not the EU, we chose to leave, the EU didn't kick us out. Regarding making benefits claimants pick crops, if the job needs doing then pay them a living wage. A house price drop of 30% is still not a realistic price. Tit for tat trade tariff wars are not the answer, neither is importing beef and sugar from Brasil, totally unsustainable. As for wanting greatness back you are clearly deluded.

In the main it was the Commonwealth countries that helped us . Admittedly some EU people helped.

 

[Bromley boy]

I voted for peace. Your vote has put my vote in the good Friday agreement and put the whole thing into jepordy.

Your actions are impacting others and you don't give a stuff.

What on earth are you wibbling on about now!?

The above statement is emotive nonsense. The issues in Ireland date back for hundreds of years. Suggesting that a leave vote will reignite the troubles, or is responsible for problems in Ireland, is simply ludicrous. I would have hoped someone calling themselves nidave, who presumably lives in NI, would have a better grasp of the issues.

As for “my actions”, I voted according to my conscience in a referendum, along with most other voting age adults in the U.K. If you have a problem with the way I voted, that’s entirely your issue. It doesn’t alter my viewpoint and I certainly won’t be losing any sleep over it!

Doesn't give a fig about the Scots either, nice.

Nope. Not a fig, nor a deep fried mars bar, nor a fetid serving of haggis. I’m sure Scottish independence issues loom large in Cheshunt.

No. They sign up to a treaty which if they break the eu can intervene. State aid is illigal in the eu and under Irish law.

So ceding financial sovereignty to the EU, then, just as @AlterEgo said...

 

[AlterEgo]

No. They sign up to a treaty which if they break the eu can intervene. State aid is illigal in the eu and under Irish law.

Yes, they signed up to a treaty ceding financial sovereignty to a supranational body. Ireland cannot set its own tax regime according to its own whims, therefore it is not sovereign in respect of its own financial affairs.

 

[Bromley boy]

In the main it was the Commonwealth countries that helped us . Admittedly some EU people helped.

From a quick google search the highest scoring hurricane squadron during the Battle of Britain was a Polish squadron.

Let’s not underestimate the enormous contribution, sacrifice and bravery of the Poles and other Europeans during WW2 (including the ordinary Germans, as distinct from their Nazi overlords).

As a fellow leaver, I’m not sure I can agree with your stance on this point, and the EU immigration point generally. I’m anti free movement, not anti immigration. I may hate the EU as an institution but I have no issue with Europe, nor the peoples of the countries that form it.

 

[bnm]

BBC get millions of EU see https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/7...dcasting-filming-David-Davies-Get-Britain-Out

As I said. Research & Development funding. Less than £1m per annum. Similar funding goes to other broadcasters and broadcast infrastructure bodies across the UK. Funding for programming goes to third party programme makers not the BBC itself. That is made clear in the article you quote.

I stand corrected on the dental treatment front. Pensioners don't automatically get free treatment. There is however means testing for low income pensioners.

Not quite sure about what you mean regarding Grandad going off to war aged 14.

 

[Bromley boy]

Not quite sure about what you mean regarding Grandad going off to war aged 14.

Irrelevant to the subject of the thread, but lots of people have gone to war for this country over the last 100 years or so, despite being under 16 at the time.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Negative equity is a problem of people buying what they can not afford, if the rainy day comes
I migrants did not pay tax and NI from 16 yrs old so will get pension credit and full use of the government services, on top of that they want interpreters NHS pays.
I suggest these fleeing people are encourage to go and fight for their country. My grand farther at 14 lied about his age to go and fight for this kingdom, he did not run away.

BBC get millions of EU see https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/7...dcasting-filming-David-Davies-Get-Britain-Out
Look to see who paid for your so called studies, bet it was financed by organisations who receive benefit if we stay in the EU.
All dental has to be paid for, including check ups. Eye tests only are free.
Please check your facts

What absolute twaddle, negative equity has nothing to do with being able to service your debt.

Clueless but not surprised

 

[VauxhallandI]

What on earth are you wibbling on about now!?

The above statement is emotive nonsense. The issues in Ireland date back for hundreds of years. Suggesting that a leave vote will reignite the troubles, or is responsible for problems in Ireland, is simply ludicrous. I would have hoped someone calling themselves nidave, who presumably lives in NI, would have a better grasp of the issues.

As for “my actions”, I voted according to my conscience in a referendum, along with most other voting age adults in the U.K. If you have a problem with the way I voted, that’s entirely your issue. It doesn’t alter my viewpoint and I certainly won’t be losing any sleep over it!



Nope. Not a fig, nor a deep fried mars bar, nor a fetid serving of haggis. I’m sure Scottish independence issues loom large in Cheshunt.



So ceding financial sovereignty to the EU, then, just as @AlterEgo said...

I am Scottish, maybe you can deport me next? The blood thirsty crowd won't be sated by their first Brexit course when they find out they need new meat to blame for their dissatisfaction in life.

I for one have never seen a deep fried mars bar anywhere in Scotland, another English stereotype

 

[NSEFAN]

[


In short, what you’re saying is member states cede financial sovereignty to the EU.

Well, yes. If a company can operate across national borders it will be able to choose in which country it legally resides in order to minimise the tax it pays, taking advantage of inconsistent tax rules. Without an agreement to standardise rules across multiple countries, you won't be able to close loopholes used by multinational companies. Agreeing to cede sovereignty and have common rules isn't a bad thing if this is the end goal and every nation wants it. However this clearly isn't something that most countries appear to want (at least not their governments), instead essentially competing with each other at a global level to keep tax low enough to attract Apple et al. to establish their headquarters there. As Bromley boy has pointed out, I'm sure Ireland is more than happy to take whatever money it gets for the benefit of being a tax haven, as I'm sure the UK will be once Brexit occurs.

 

[pemma]

How come you are paying for your dental treatment at 70?

Presumably @Basher lives in a typical British town where NHS dentists are rare and the only option is a private dentist. Out of around 20 dentists in my town only 2 are NHS (1 of those 2 being part time) and those NHS dentists have no spaces for those who are new to the town or are registered with a dentist who used to be NHS but changed to a private scheme. Private dentists are usually willing to give free treatment to children on the NHS but that benefit doesn't extend to the unemployed, retired or those on limited or no incomes.

 

[Howardh]

Presumably @Basher lives in a typical British town where NHS dentists are rare and the only option is a private dentist. Out of around 20 dentists in my town only 2 are NHS (1 of those 2 being part time) and those NHS dentists have no spaces for those who are new to the town or are registered with a dentist who used to be NHS but changed to a private scheme. Private dentists are usually willing to give free treatment to children on the NHS but that benefit doesn't extend to the unemployed, retired or those on limited or no incomes.

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/dentists/how-to-find-an-nhs-dentist/

If after contacting several dental practices you still can't find a dentist accepting NHS patients, you should call NHS England's Customer Contact Centre on 0300 311 2233.

NHS England commissions dental services in England and is required to meet the needs of their local population for both urgent and routine dental care.

Your local Healthwatch also may be able to give you information about services in your area.

If NHS England has been unable to help you find a dentist and you want to raise your concerns about this, contact them on:

• email: [email protected]
• phone: 0300 311 2233
• visit the NHS England website

If you're still not satisfied with NHS England's response, you can take your complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

 

[Bromley boy]

I am Scottish, maybe you can deport me next? The blood thirsty crowd won't be sated by their first Brexit course when they find out they need new meat to blame for their dissatisfaction in life.

I for one have never seen a deep fried mars bar anywhere in Scotland, another English stereotype

My previous comments were tongue in cheek. I have no issue with Scotland and no wish to deport any Scots living in England. I’m also perfectly satisfied with my life, thanks.

But do you seriously imagine that I, as an Englishman living in London, would be considering the position of Scotland in my vote?

Which bit of my comments re. Scottish independence do you disagree with?

 

[Groningen]

So it looks that Theresa May finds that the EU is blackmailing her and the other way around. Theresa May can not expect to have the gains of the EU and not the pains.

 

[Barn]

From a quick google search the highest scoring hurricane squadron during the Battle of Britain was a Polish squadron.

Yes, the Poles were awesome. Their achievements are hidden by the invasion of their country but they really deserve as much credit as any of the Allies for defeating fascism.

In addition to forming eight fighter squadrons in the RAF, there was also an astonishingly brave Polish organisation which dedicated itself to shielding and rescuing tens of thousands of Jews (the Zegota), they had a huge resistance effort, they captured the Enigma machine, they got very far along the track of decrypting it and shared their efforts with the British (essentially kickstarting the Bletchley Park effort), they saved many lives in London by disrupting German rocket production and sharing technology secrets they discovered with us, they supplied almost half of the external intelligence received by the precursor to MI6, their navy fought alongside ours, they invented the periscope to fit to our tanks, and much more.

I don't necessarily think it's the best way forward, but if we ever did design an immigration system around historic friendships, then Poland has to be in the top division.

 

[bramling]

But do you seriously imagine that I, as an Englishman living in London, would be considering the position of Scotland in my vote?

Sadly, I suspect every appearance of Nicola Sturgeon on television results in a fall in how many people in England regard Scotland.

Whilst this may well be a deliberate strategy by her as part of her ideological crusade towards independence, it's noticeable how she has done well electorally in recent years - albeit now apparently on a declining path.

In any case, I don't see what Scotland has to gain/lose from the EU any more than England. I can *understand* the Irish border issue, although I don't agree that it should cause such an unsolvable issue, but there really isn't a massive difference between Berwick-upon-Tweed and Eyemouth!

 

[Groningen]

In the Netherlands Corbyn is less known and those who know him find him far too left.

 

[Bromley boy]

In the Netherlands Corbyn is less known and those who know him find him far too left.

Exactly the same as he’s viewed in the U.K. then!

Sadly, I suspect every appearance of Nicola Sturgeon on television results in a fall in how many people in England regard Scotland.

Whilst this may well be a deliberate strategy by her as part of her ideological crusade towards independence, it's noticeable how she has done well electorally in recent years - albeit now apparently on a declining path.

In any case, I don't see what Scotland has to gain/lose from the EU any more than England. I can *understand* the Irish border issue, although I don't agree that it should cause such an unsolvable issue, but there really isn't a massive difference between Berwick-upon-Tweed and Eyemouth!

I couldn’t agree more. Dreadful woman.