trash80
Established Member
I've given up underestimating the stupidity of the mob
Yeah, many are guilty of misunderestimating people.I've given up underestimating the stupidity of the mob
Nigel Farage has had his MEP's salary docked by £35,500 after claims he misspent EU funds, the BBC understands.
The ex-UKIP leader was investigated by the European Parliament over claims his office assistant had not been working on EU matters.
Half of his salary has been withheld to recoup the money the Parliament says it is owed.
The move was condemned by a spokesman for the European Parliament group which Mr Farage heads.
"There is a vindictive campaign by the European Parliament of selective persecution of Eurosceptic MEPs, parties and groups," said the spokesman for the European Freedom and Direct Democracy group.
"This allegation is all part of their politically motivated assault."
It's strange that most of the things that you mention that may change when the UK leaves the EU are to do with border and travel restrictions yet you don't seem concerned with rising prices, unemployment, shortage of trained workers for key jobs etc., which will affect you far more than holidays and cheap alcohol.
So you're happy with an increased cost of living as a consequence of Brexit?One would hope that to a limited extent, business might be forced to undertake some training and some alternative products fully sourced in the UK might increase in popularity, compared to those of companies denominated in other currencies.
So you're happy with an increased cost of living as a consequence of Brexit?
He may be deluded on that score. If there was an opportunity to wipe that Stonehenge-toothed smile from his face then I'd take it for that reason alone.
However, I do also have a sneaking suspicion is the UK has had it up to -here- with referendums and associated fallout. I wonder how much that would skew any vote? Are Leavers and Remainers equally sick of this stuff?
It sounds nice and democratic to give the public a new referendum when the final terms of Brexit are known. Leaving aside that I would be encouraged if it leads to a Remain vote, I have 2 concerns. The first as you say is that the public may well be sick of all these votes. Secondly, there are plenty of people who will not see the difference between this and the 2016 referendum.
So you're happy with an increased cost of living as a consequence of Brexit?
There are parts of the electorate that vote the same way whatever the situation, those who vote for reasons that have nothing to do with the election/referendum, those who try and game the system and thos of course who don't vote. There's no reason why those voters will behave any different in a future referendum, but the fact is the demographic will have changed in as much as about 250,000 voters over 50 are no longer able to vote, similarly, a number of young people can vote for the first time. Aside from any change in voters views over the past 2 years, the demographic change adds young voters who are more likely to vote remain to the ratio 3:1 and removes leaver voters in the ratio 6:4 so the already slim majority is being eaten away before the worsening economic situation changes any minds.
It's also worth remembering that about 700,000 additional 18-24s registered to vote in the 2017 general election following the referendum result, so it can be presumed that they would vote in the same way as the already registered voters within that age group.
There are parts of the electorate that vote the same way whatever the situation, those who vote for reasons that have nothing to do with the election/referendum, those who try and game the system and thos of course who don't vote. There's no reason why those voters will behave any different in a future referendum, but the fact is the demographic will have changed in as much as about 250,000 voters over 50 are no longer able to vote, similarly, a number of young people can vote for the first time. Aside from any change in voters views over the past 2 years, the demographic change adds young voters who are more likely to vote remain to the ratio 3:1 and removes leaver voters in the ratio 6:4 so the already slim majority is being eaten away before the worsening economic situation changes any minds.
It's also worth remembering that about 700,000 additional 18-24s registered to vote in the 2017 general election following the referendum result, so it can be presumed that they would vote in the same way as the already registered voters within that age group.
I don't think the result would change either.
The rhetoric since the vote has led to most people's positions becoming even more entrenched so few people will change there mind - but a few will:
* Presumably the remain campaign a 2nd time would be better (it could hardly be worse!), trying to highlight positives of staying instead of focussing solely on negatives of leaving, and talking about some areas other than just the economic impact.
* Also there'd be some yiung voters who were ineligible to vote last time, who're statistically more likely to be remainers than those who voted last time but are sadly no longer with us.
*Howeve I think these two factors will be balanced out by some remainers feeling that revisiting it so soon is failing to respect the first vote and therefore voting leave on principle (I have a friend who voted remain and wishes the country had too, but who'd vote leave in a rerun for this reason) and some others being sick to the back teeth of it and staying at home.
I voted remain but would not want another in/out referendum now. I would have liked a a "what type of 'leave' would you like" referendum, and I wouldn't object to a "this is the type of 'leave' we've managed to negotiate it, do you want this or would you rather remain" one
Ms Markle would taint the Royal Family, that she had a "tiny brain" and that black people were ugly.
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UKIP has confirmed Ms Marney has been suspended but some members have called for her permanent removal from the party.
In logic, if you start an argument with a falsehood then the entire argument is false. Freedom of movement means that people move where there are available jobs - the simple way to control immigration is to get UK nationals off benefits and into jobs.I suspect that for a lot of people the answer is no, but also that they are not happy with continued freedom of movement (i.e. mass uncontrollable immigration)...
In logic, if you start an argument with a falsehood then the entire argument is false. Freedom of movement means that people move where there are available jobs - the simple way to control immigration is to get UK nationals off benefits and into jobs.
Well, someone is going to have to pick them post-Brexit!British people have been indoctrinated for a couple of generations now that picking potatoes in the Fens is no life for them. Everyone thinks they’re above that.
This all sounds like an extremely slippery slope to me. Worryingly close to gerrymandering in fact.
These are facts based on the results of the referendum:
most younger voters prefer a future within the EU
most older voters prefer the UK to not be a member of the EU
These are facts of voting eligibility under UK law that has been in effect since in 1970:
people can vote from the age of 18 and until they die with the exceptions of certain mental health conditions and criminal convictions
That which was stated in my post #8228 was extrapolated from the laterst year's population and death figures (2016)
So the trend is that without of any change in the voting intentions of those voted in the 2016 referendum, the slim majority that there was for leaving is gradually being reduced by natural demographic causes. The only counter argument to that is that when existing reamain voters reach a certain age (50, maybe 60?) they flip to being confirmed leave voters. Counting any change in the view of all voters following the exit process up to the point of a new vote, cannot be regarded as a natural demographic cause.
Gerrymandering is a deliberate act to fix the results of a vote. Perhaps you could explain how any of the above is even loosely connected with gerrymandering.
If we leave we'll be back in by 2030, with the Euro.
I'll post next week's lotto numbers later.
I'm 22, most of the young people I've spoken to about Brexit, apart from the ones from the academic Universities who are wedded to the project itself, all voted remain but just want it to go well rather than not at all. I think if Brexit did go reasonably-lukewarm-okay then I think people would move on from EU membership to the next big issue that effects peoples lives in the 20s. World War Three perhaps?
Agreed, though I think the real impact (if any) won't be felt for 12 to 18 months out.As you say, if Brexit goes reasonably well (ie no massive recession,no job losses, no industry grinding to a halt on Brexit Day, etc) then I don't think that there will be too many people clamouring to rejoin.
What about the people who went to the unacademic Universities (What is an Academic University?). You think if it went well people wouldn't mind? Of course they wouldn't mind if it went well. Its the fact that a lot of people really don't think it is going to go well that is the problem. It isn't like the quid I just bet on the Liverpool v Man City game.Why do you think that?
I'm 22, most of the young people I've spoken to about Brexit, apart from the ones from the academic Universities who are wedded to the project itself, all voted remain but just want it to go well rather than not at all. I think if Brexit did go reasonably-lukewarm-okay then I think people would move on from EU membership to the next big issue that effects peoples lives in the 20s. World War Three perhaps?
Why do you think that?
An approximate equal number of older voters have also died off, so remain is home and dry!It's also worth remembering that about 700,000 additional 18-24s registered to vote in the 2017 general election following the referendum result, so it can be presumed that they would vote in the same way as the already registered voters within that age group.
It doesn't work like that though. House prices are currently way above and beyond the means of many and have been for decades. There isn't suddenly a number of people getting gradually older who will suddenly change their mind to leave because they are already pretty much sorted out.An approximate equal number of older voters have also died off, so remain is home and dry!
What this logic misses is the fact that an approximate equal number of voters have moved upwards through the age groups. There is every likelihood that life experience has modified the views held by those voters, just as it modified the views of those who went before them.
I thought we were talking about membership of the EU. I can't quite see what house prices have got to do with it, unless you are suggesting that Brexit will result in such an economic boom as to further inflate house prices.It doesn't work like that though. House prices are currently way above and beyond the means of many and have been for decades. There isn't suddenly a number of people getting gradually older who will suddenly change their mind to leave because they are already pretty much sorted out.
I think he means the idea is that people get older and settled with their home, car blah blah are more likely to become conservative and hence anti-EU. I think its a bit of a myth to be honest.
Which did you think, the idea that people become more conservative, or the idea that this is a myth?Exactly. I thought it was pretty obvious. Hey ho.