EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Spamcan81]

And can we really count the DUP motion of confidence? Paying somebody £1bn to side with you doesn't work.
Personally I think May is snookered, winning by just 12 votes does not show confidence to me.

You obviously have no idea how politics work. It would be a major surprise if opposition parties voted for an incumbent government in a confidence debate.

 

[AM9]

Usually spouted by people who were born after WWII ended.

Which I suggest includes nearly everybody on this forum and just under 88% of the population.

 

[Jonny]

You obviously have no idea how politics work. It would be a major surprise if opposition parties voted for an incumbent government in a confidence debate.

Exactly - and the DUP are effectively the representatives of those in Northern Ireland who voted to leave the EU (the DUP votes in 2017 match the Leave votes in 2016 pretty closely). Vince Cable and Jeremy Corbyn have just had a sniff at power.

 

[KashmireHawker]

A Majority of 19 for May means, that if the DUP has gone the other way, it would have passed 316-315 and been 1979 all over again.

As a Labour Member, it have been nice if the numbers had stacked up another day - but it is one of the closest defeats there has been on a VONC in the Commons history so its progress.

Corbyn’s next move is imperative and Monday’s Debate on Plan B is going to be a corker.

 

[nidave]

We have no confidence in HM government:
Aye: 306
Noe: 325

For the record, 325 votes out of 631 is about 52%.

There have been 2 votes at getting a result and its the same. Now may has to be prime Minister until the end of time.

Hummm something hyprocytical about being allowed to have 2 go's at getting may out but not allowing a 2nd referendum and a confirmation vote being given to the people.

 

[nidave]

And can we really count the DUP motion of confidence? Paying somebody £1bn to side with you doesn't work.
Personally I think May is snookered, winning by just 12 votes does not show confidence to me.

But that majority (in %) is fine to say "everyone must accept brexit as its the will of the people"

 

[dgl]

You obviously have no idea how politics work. It would be a major surprise if opposition parties voted for an incumbent government in a confidence debate.

Says whom?
I do get how politics work but still think the narrow result leaves her vulnerable. Not only has the deal she's supposedly worked on for months just been rubbished by the biggest parliamentary majority since the 1920's she has only very narrowly won a vote of no confidence, and how many voted for her, not because they think she's not incompetent, but because they both don't want Corbyn to even have a chance of getting in and don't want the political suicide of becoming PM in these uncertain times.

 

[A Challenge]

The division went down party lines completely (excluding independent MPs) Conservatives and DUP Noe, everyone else Aye, and one of the Independents voted with the government (I think the only one to be elected as an independent), 4 against.

Source: Hansard

 

[Busaholic]

It's not unfeasible that Theresa May is about to announce her resignation.

 

[nlogax]

It's not unfeasible that Theresa May is about to announce her resignation.

I highly doubt that.

 

[nidave]

No. The crest was on the podium so not a party announcement.
More of the following rubbish which gets us nowhere...
⚪ Let me be clear
⚪ The will of the people
⚪ This government is committed
⚪ We will deliver
⚪ A brexit for the people
⚪ EU nationals deserve
⚪ The best possible deal
⚪ Strong and stable
Any more?

 

[Howardh]

No. The crest was on the podium so not a party announcement.
More of the following rubbish which gets us nowhere...
⚪ Let me be clear
⚪ The will of the people
⚪ This government is committed
⚪ We will deliver
⚪ A brexit for the people
⚪ EU nationals deserve
⚪ The best possible deal
⚪ Strong and stable
Any more?

Did she say the country is *unanimously behind Brexit*?

 

[HH]

The media seems to suggest that the UK would default to WTO rules if it left the European block without a trade deal.

A quick look at the membership page of the UK on the WTO website seems to suggest that the UK is a member through the EU...?
https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/united_kingdom_e.htm

I'm getting confused now...

Currently we are a member through EU, but we would become a separate member. The rules are the same either way.

What we lose out on is all the agreements above and beyond WTO rules that the EU have negotiated with other countries.

Some blithe Brexiteer MPs talk as those these can be agreed overnight (and are parroted by the masses); this, despite the fact that the current agreements took years to put together. I expect that with some countries a quick settlement will require concessions, because they will be in a good position to get them.

 

[Qwerty133]

The division went down party lines completely (excluding independent MPs) Conservatives and DUP Noe, everyone else Aye, and one of the Independents voted with the government (I think the only one to be elected as an independent), 4 against.

Source: Hansard

Sylvia Hermon is DUP in all but name on most issues, whereas the other MPs are all former labour members IIRC so its hardly a surprise which way any of them voted.

 

[EM2]

Did she say the country is *unanimously behind Brexit*?

No, but she did say that the British people 'overwhelmingly wanted' Brexit to be delivered.

 

[EM2]

Nobody wants the deal. Nobody wants no deal.
Surely the only sensible course is to try and negotiate an extension to the Article 50 notification.

 

[nidave]

Confirming what many have been saying for a very long time... But this is an expert so I suppose his expertise can be dismissed as random people online know more and it's all just "project fear"

European Union and World Trade Organization checks would be mandatory on both sides of the Irish border in the event of no-deal Brexit, one of the world’s leading experts on customs has said.

Michael Lux, a former head of customs legislation and procedures at the European commission, said the UK would have to impose customs checks and tariffs on the northern side of the border, despite claims to the contrary by Brexiters.

“If you do not apply tariffs, you would be in breach of WTO rules. One of the rules – the most-favoured nation, article 3 – is that if you apply a lower duty to one nation, you have to apply it to all members, and if the UK did that in Northern Ireland it would have to apply that right across the UK,” he said.

Checks on both sides of Irish border ‘mandatory under no-deal Brexit’

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

[Groningen]

Even if Theresa May resigns does not mean that Jeremy Corbyn wins the next elections than the last one. For us JC is a kind of Karl Marx. Did you know that 1 of Jacob Rees-Nogg business (Somerset Capital Management) has its seat in Dublin.

 

[gysev]

Surely the only sensible course is to try and negotiate an extension to the Article 50 notification.

Just a question from the "wrong side of the Channel": When the UK asks for an extension to Article 50, does that mean the UK has to organise a European Election in may?

 

[trash80]

I see the usual suspect papers are blaming Corbyn for the Brexit impasse now, i have thought for some time the whole thing would be called off if they could find a way to blame Labour

 

[HH]

The funniest thing at the moment is all the desperate Brexiters saying that if they don't get a Brexit in March they'll never vote again and other horrific threats, because they will have "lost all their trust in Parliament". Apparently they still had trust in that bunch of freeloaders and con artists. Just goes to show; probably why they believe all that other stupid stuff, like what was written on that bus and that "No deal" is a great deal.

 

[nlogax]

I see the usual suspect papers are blaming Corbyn for the Brexit impasse now, i have thought for some time the whole thing would be called off if they could find a way to blame Labour

His refusal to meet with the PM because she won't immediately rule out a no-deal seems to the most petulant thing he's done yet. That said I'm not convinced that she wants to remove any of her red lines. She plainly refuses to understand that her deal is toast.

Our political system is broken. Time to turn the country off and on again.

 

[The_Train]

Our political system is broken. Time to turn the country off and on again.

Or have we reached a point where there is little point in turning it back on again?

 

[Senex]

His refusal to meet with the PM because she won't immediately rule out a no-deal seems to the most petulant thing he's done yet. That said I'm not convinced that she wants to remove any of her red lines. She plainly refuses to understand that her deal is toast.

Our political system is broken. Time to turn the country off and on again.

I'm certainly no fan of that old-fashioned Marxist-Leninist Corbyn, but I do think it's harsh to say this is the most petulant thing he's done yet. If "no no-deal exit" is a Labour red line and if May is still refusing to talk about any of her own red lines, then a meeting would be bound to be a total non-communication event and they might as well not waste each other's time. If the serious conversations we are assured are going to happen are to have any chance of getting anywhere, then all red lines on both sides need to be off the table.

 

[Senex]

Does anyone else share my puzzlement with the argument that because 80% of the electors voted for parties with Brexit in their manifestos at the 2017 election, then 80% of the electors wanted to see Brexit — an argument that has been trotted out quite a few times on air in the last couple of days? Yes, Labour and Conservative did indeed include that commitment, along with many other things as in normal general election manifestos. But those are the only two parties that were going to be capable of forming a government, so many people would be making their choice on the whole raft of what was on offer, not specifically on Brexit, and it seems wrong to generalise that they all voted to support this particular one policy. Suppose, for example, someone's motivation was to try to prevent Corbyn becoming PM at all costs and despite a hatred of the Tories voted for them for this reason, was that really a vote to support that particular manifesto policy on Brexit? Surely hardly any general elections anywhere can be seen just as one-issue votes?

 

[nlogax]

If "no no-deal exit" is a Labour red line and if May is still refusing to talk about any of her own red lines, then a meeting would be bound to be a total non-communication event and they might as well not waste each other's time.

I don't buy that at all. At least meet. Talk for ten damned minutes, exchange a few words in person and look each other in the eyes. This is the moment beyond all others where some sort of engagement is required for the sake of the bigger picture. If there -really- isn't any common ground then fine, walk away and come up with another idea. Politicians in this country are still so hellbent on pursuing their own party and personal agendas above all else and the entire country suffers as a result.

 

[ComUtoR]

The funniest thing at the moment is all the desperate Brexiters saying that if they don't get a Brexit in March they'll never vote again and other horrific threats, because they will have "lost all their trust in Parliament". Apparently they still had trust in that bunch of freeloaders and con artists. Just goes to show; probably why they believe all that other stupid stuff, like what was written on that bus and that "No deal" is a great deal.

Why is the default stance to insult people because they make a decision based on experience and heaven forbid some kind of moral compass ? There is a proportion of the electorate that do not vote. To change this, MPs must get their acts together. The country voted out so it should have been full steam ahead to get a good deal to get us out. Like it or not, that was the democratic result of the election and should have then been supported.

IF there wasn't a 'Brexit' or there was a 'Second Referendum' then I can fully understand how ANY voter could see that as a betrayal and make a choice not to vote in the future.

 

[Jonny]

Just a question from the "wrong side of the Channel": When the UK asks for an extension to Article 50, does that mean the UK has to organise a European Election in may?

I'm honestly not sure. Apparently it could be an issue (or maybe not).

It would be an issue that could see Britain go right out, and it would be within the parameters of what I voted for. I thought that the EU would do more to prevent it as it would hurt them more than us, especially in the long run. The heads of the European Commission - (Barnier, Tusk, Juncker et al.) the part of the EU that does everything - have shown themselves to be complete donkey's poo holes and Britain is better off out. In fact the same goes for all 27 other member states.

A functional Brexit may lead to others. It is not just a right-wing thing, there were some leftists involved even in Britain.

Or have we reached a point where there is little point in turning it back on again?

Wait until April to restart and default out on no deal? Why not.

Why is the default stance to insult people because they make a decision based on experience and heaven forbid some kind of moral compass ? There is a proportion of the electorate that do not vote. To change this, MPs must get their acts together. The country voted out so it should have been full steam ahead to get a good deal to get us out. Like it or not, that was the democratic result of the election and should have then been supported.

IF there wasn't a 'Brexit' or there was a 'Second Referendum' then I can fully understand how ANY voter could see that as a betrayal and make a choice not to vote in the future.

One of the things that annoys me about the so-called experts is that they sometimes get it wrong (remember the 2008 recession and how no-one else saw it coming?) or when they do get it right it often causes undue difficulties to ordinary people.

 

[Howardh]

In answer to the question about the Euro MP elections, if A50 was extended until June then no- if it was extended beyond then yes, we would be sending a new batch of MEP's.

So we could be sending them to do six month's work, most over summer when the place is on holiday!! However if A50 is extended enough for that to happen, the chances are that we're remaining as the EU suggest we would need very good reason to extend - which would be an election or vote.

Anyhow, wonder if all the Brexiters who think the EU is undemocratic won't be bothered voting (irony at work)?

 

[Esker-pades]

Did she say the country is *unanimously behind Brexit*?

I think the phrase now is "the country voted decisively". Which is utter rubbish. "Decisively" means:
1: "Having the power or quality of deciding" - Referenda are not binding in this country
2: "Putting an end to controversy" - Obvious we haven't done that, otherwise most of this thread wouldn't exist.
3: "Crucial or most important: Your argument was the decisive one" - Possibly?
4: "Characterised by or displaying no or little hesitation" - No.
5: "Resolute; determined" - Possibly.
6: "Indisputable; definite" - No.
7: "Unsurpassable; commanding" - No.