Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by och aye, 21 Nov 2014.

  1. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Probably 95% renewals, with small enhancement works making up the rest. E.g. replacing turnouts with higher-speed ones.
     
  2. och aye

    och aye Member

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    An opinion piece regarding reopening the Edinburgh South Sub:

    Here’s the case for reopening Edinburgh’s lost circle line

    https://www.citymetric.com/transport/here-s-case-reopening-edinburgh-s-lost-circle-line-4377

     
  3. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    The South-sub is one of those things that makes a load of sense until you start looking at the details. Then it just makes some sense - not saying it's a bad idea though.
     
  4. Ginaro

    Ginaro Member

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    Question is how do you get the tram from Princes Street to the south sub if you want to avoid Haymarket. Would it be feasible to take the tram via Lothian Road, and onto the old alignment at the West Approach Road, bulldoze half a dozen houses at Angle Park Terrace, then continue over the railway and turn to join the south sub?
     
  5. 433N

    433N Member

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    I wish I heard more about plans to serve the huge area to the south/southwest of the city which currently has no rail at all.

    Unsurprisingly, the city bypass in this region has 3 of the top 10 spots for traffic congestion in the UK and nothing is ever done to alleviate it.
     
  6. Mordac

    Mordac Established Member

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    A while ago there was a project being developed to grade separate Sheriffhall Roundabout. I lost track when I moved away from Edinburgh. Has the BANANA* lobby put a stop to that?


    *BANANA = Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything
     
  7. gingertom

    gingertom Member

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    I'd be looking to take the tram lines up over the main lines, interchange just west of Haymarket then head north over the old trackbed towards Granton, to link up with the planned Newhaven extension. Ticks many boxes.
     
  8. railjock

    railjock Member

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    Interesting idea for the West end though I think the question was more for the East end.

    You could build an interchange stop at Brunstane with the line then going over the ECML and taking the Leith Docks route down to meet the proposed New tram line in Leith somewhere. All pie in the sky of course.
     
  9. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Is there room to go down Distillery Lane with a stop that aligns with the current footbridge, then behind the houses at Easter Dalry Place, over the line to Carstairs, along Sauchiebank, Russel Road, behind the industrial units and then join the Sub just past the existing mainline junction?
     
  10. Photohunter71

    Photohunter71 Member

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    It would be best if they just used dmu's bi-mode, emu's for passenger use on the sub, You're also competing with freight and engineers trains along the sub, besides, there's very little room for placing street-trains alongside the sub. I take it the current street-trains use a smaller gauge track in comparison to normal trains?
     
  11. Ginaro

    Ginaro Member

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    Yes creating the north loop would be good, would be a shame if it meant the cycle paths were lost though.

    Interesting suggestion, basically a parallel track from Dalry Road: https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9453515,-3.2182153,75a,35y,249h,73.43t/data=!3m1!1e3 (3d view looking along the line). Biggest challenges would be gaining height from Russell Road to clear the WCML, and of course the actual building of the whole thing!
     
  12. gingertom

    gingertom Member

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    not necessarily pie in the sky. The planners have been looking at extending the tram network before the first route was finished, even in the York Place cut back form. As always it's down to money, or lack thereof. I'll try and dig out a link to the map.
     
  13. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Maybe the whole thing could be on a viaduct if clearance at ground-level is an issue.
     
  14. railjock

    railjock Member

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    The Edinburgh El has a ring to it.
     
  15. NotATrainspott

    NotATrainspott Established Member

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    Edinburgh has a fully integrated tram and bus network. The tram is an addition onto the bus network, rather than a way for the rail network to expand. The tram will serve routes which see a large volume of important bus travel - to the airport, to Leith, and to the south-east. The existence of the South Sub is essentially meaningless to a bus operator.

    The base case for the line is full electrification and resignalling for passenger services for the diversions required for future Waverley capacity upgrades. That won't mean stations, because the use would be short-lived (albeit very important, like the new link at Anniesland built for the Queen Street works in 2016). After that, the only regular passenger services I could ever see happening would be tram-trains designed to get people commuting to the western Edinburgh employment sites. That project would consist of links between the South Sub and the tram heading west of Haymarket and the Line 3 route east of Cameron Toll plus some Rotherham-style tram-train stations up on the line. It might, just, be justifiable as an alternative to upgrading the City Bypass just as the Airdrie-Bathgate project was an alternative to upgrading the M8. There will have to be a lot of development to the west before that will be worthwhile though.
     
  16. Elwyn

    Elwyn Member

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    The stations on the south suburban line closed to passengers in 1962 because there weren’t many passengers. Most wanted to go into the city centre rather than around it and buses were much quicker. Has anything really changed?
     
  17. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Apart from increased traffic congestion (which is common in major cities), I am not sure if there has also been an increase in residential population of that area or not.
     
  18. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    There are a lot of people on the buses heading down Merchiston/Morningside/Craiglockhart way in the mornings to be fair. There a few university campuses down there.
     
  19. Chrism20

    Chrism20 Established Member

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    Any development of the south sub that has Lothian Buses style fares and enables the use of their ridacard would imo be a huge success.

    Without that kind of fare system I think it would struggle to attract the numbers to make it viable as the majority of journeys would be wholly within Edinburgh
     
    Last edited: 8 Dec 2018 at 09:11
  20. NotATrainspott

    NotATrainspott Established Member

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    No one is disputing that. The problem, as ever, is that the South Sub doesn't actually serve a useful purpose for most of the people currently travelling to and from the areas along it. The relatively small number of people commuting across the way along the route of the South Sub can currently be accommodated just fine on the 38 bus.
     
  21. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Not technically an expansion, but definitely an investment... Or maybe not.

    £218m rail overhaul would only cut journeys by a few minutes

     
  22. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    The trouble is that the bean counters can't seem to price the cost of lack of resilience in a network, whether it is impeded by single-track sections, flat junctions, or even sections shared by fast and stopping services. They seem content if a timetable works on good days. Of course there would only be a marginal time gain from eliminating some, most or all of the Usan section. I don't think its proponents ever claimed that.
     
    Last edited: 8 Dec 2018 at 14:43
  23. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    That said, £220M is a lot of money - could similar benefits be achieved for less money? E.g. could a resignalling reduce section occupation time?
     
  24. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    As for the South Sub. Complete. bonkers.
    At the site of Newington station, there are nine bus routes, probably 30buses every hour. All but two pass the university, royal mile and Waverley. The other two turn West at the university, and one, fitted with luggage racks runs to the airport. The. sub goes round in a huge arc until it gets back to Waverley..

    A route to Leith has more sense
     
  25. clc

    clc Established Member

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    We’ve known all along that doubling Usan wouldn’t save much time and has a poor bcr, I remember Altnabreac talking about it a few years ago and how it was about increasing capacity / improving resilience to allow more trains to operate.

    Keith Brown made the commitment to double Usan but he is no longer a Minister. Perhaps the vision for future improvements is less ambitious than it was.
     
  26. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    Montrose - Usan was resignalled in January 2010. Linespeed over the single line section (which is about 2.5 miles long) is 50mph.
     
  27. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Ah, I remember that now - that was when Usan box went. Is there any possibility of raising that linespeed, and especially the entry/exit speed at the south end (given that most/all trains call at Montrose)?

    How long are the blocks north and south of the single line section? Can two trains heading in the same direction queue while waiting for the section to clear?
     
  28. Class 403

    Class 403 Member

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    What about Grangemouth regaining a passenger service as I believe there was tentative plans to do so as a idea forwarded by Network Rail and supported by Falkirk Council who the last I heard were undertaking a feasibility study into the projects potential.

    The idea was that the Falkirk Grahamston terminators would be extended but looking on RTT I can't see any such services but I can see Cumbernauld terminators so in a timetable recast could they be extended to a new Grangemouth station?

    Is there any news/update if this is likely to go ahead?
     
  29. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    The Grahamston terminators are now being extended through to Edinburgh as stoppers which has resulted in Linlithgow & Polmont being axed from the Edinburgh-Dunblane services. This has probably killed all hope of a Grangemouth station. It’s a shame as I think Grangemouth-Glasgow Queen Street via Cumbernauld 2tph would have been a better idea.
     
  30. Chrism20

    Chrism20 Established Member

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    The post says that they can see Cumbernauld terminators not Grahamston ones. There will still be Cumbernauld terminators following the timetable change.
     

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