First Group: General Discussion

[TheGrandWazoo]

Direct link is here

I thought the First Beeline livery looked tired and worn in 2001 when I moved to the South Bucks area - but perhaps that was just the buses.

It's the only area I've ever lived in where I wasn't a regular user of the buses.

To be honest, the previous livery (the original BBBC yellow and brown) also looked tired!

 

[Ivo]

That Beeline livery always looked OK to me, although that said I only ever saw it on deckers as far as I can remember and certainly only ever used it on deckers.

The new version seems a little retro to me, but anyone who thinks it is bad should go look at some of the other liveries - remember that Stirling one posted a few months ago? - and then tell me it's bad. The colours actually complement each other quite well.

 

[34D]

Bath

Well, until 2010, when the airport stole them.

No, I mean which bit of First manages the operation.

Are the Luton vehicles not three FTR's and a red Citaro bendy anymore?

 

[Volvodart]

Luton buses have recently had their legals changed to First Essex, although the service registration in not yet changed, I think. There are 3 Volvo B7LA artics and a Volvo B7RLE. There is a feature on the service in the current issue of Route One (www.route-one.net).

 

[anthony263]

I wish First had decided to resurect the old Badgerline livery for their buses operating around Bristol and Somerset.

That said I would also like to see the return of the SWT green and Brewers liveries in the south wales operations

 

[winston270twm]

I wish First had decided to resurect the old Badgerline livery for their buses operating around Bristol and Somerset.

That said I would also like to see the return of the SWT green and Brewers liveries in the south wales operations

May be they should have gone back to original First Bus days when all subsidiary’s had their own livery & local identity, with the part of First Group Plc stickers in the windows only

I would just mean having to repaint buses when they get moved around the group, which isn't too much of a hardship

 

[34D]

All staff at First Northampton have been given 90 days notice, according to an industry figure whom I'm meeting for a drink at present (ex Northampton staff several years back).

 

[Ivo]

Big news. Do you know when that notice was issued?

 

[winston270twm]

All staff at First Northampton have been given 90 days notice, according to an industry figure whom I'm meeting for a drink at present (ex Northampton staff several years back).

I don't think it has come as any great surprise

 

[MK Tom]

Quite the opposite in fact.

Seeing as Stagecoach start running the weekday route 2 on September 30th, based on past experience I expect full closure by mid October.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Quite the opposite in fact.

Seeing as Stagecoach start running the weekday route 2 on September 30th, based on past experience I expect full closure by mid October.

90 days is the statutory minimum depending on the number of staff involved

 

[MK Tom]

Yeah I know, 90 days doesn't quite take us to mid-October. I'm going by the past experience that they close the route a few weeks after the replacement Stagecoach service starts. Obviously however the 4 is taking a little longer.

 

[Surreyman]

Yeah I know, 90 days doesn't quite take us to mid-October. I'm going by the past experience that they close the route a few weeks after the replacement Stagecoach service starts. Obviously however the 4 is taking a little longer.

From personal memory, 90 days is the statutory period but staff can ask to leave before that date and still receive full redundancy pay, as above, the route can stop running but the staff still have to be paid work or no work, it might suit all parties!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

May be they should have gone back to original First Bus days when all subsidiaries had their own livery & local identity, with the part of First Group Plc stickers in the windows only

I would just mean having to repaint buses when they get moved around the group, which isn't too much of a hardship

I like this idea, but I was never a fan of 'Kingfisher' for Huddersfield... Wtf do kingfishers have to do with Huddersfield anyway? The livery was awful, too!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From personal memory, 90 days is the statutory period but staff can ask to leave before that date and still receive full redundancy pay, as above, the route can stop running but the staff still have to be paid work or no work, it might suit all parties!

Correct though its the employer who makes that decision though as long as the employee gets the pay for 90 days and PILON, then they can be allowed to go early. Also,as this is the closure, perhaps what has gone before isn't so good a guide

 

[overthewater]

First will only have route 38 in the town of Linlithgow from a few weeks time. 45/46 are passing over to new operate.

 

[Smethwickian]

First faces more woes with 149 drivers in Worcester and Hereford being balloted by Unite for potential strike action on the first day of the summer school holidays (July 22).

The union says its because of changes to their working conditions which its members didn’t agree to and which have left them worse off.

There'll be more in tomorrow's Worcester News newspaper, I understand. I will try to remember to post a link if it's on the paper's website but apologise in advance if I forget.

 

[overthewater]

Twitter reports

Big shareholder revolt at FirstGroup, Aberdeen: 29% voted against exec remuneration report, 23% against departing chairman Martin Gilbert
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
##########################

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/17/first-group-shareholders-vote-chairman-pay

Almost one-in-four FirstGroup investors voted against the re-election of chairman Martin Gilbert to the board of the transport operator even though the long-standing director has already pledged to resign in the wake of the firm's £615m cash call.

In May when the rights issue was announced Gilbert, the boss of the fund management group Aberdeen Asset Management and associated with First Group for 27 years, said he would quit once his successor was found.

Even so 23% of investors voted against his re-election to the board, while 30% voted against the group's pay report.

After the annual meeting First Group issued a statement to acknowledge Gilbert's role at the company but adding: "We appreciate this has been a challenging period for shareholders but we now have a stronger base from which to deliver improved returns and sustainable value."

The vote against the remuneration report took place even though chief executive Tim O'Toole turned down a £600,000 bonus and froze his £846,000 salary. Despite the rights issue he had been entitled to the bonus because internal targets for the year had been met.

"The remuneration committee has listened closely to feedback and will be consulting further with shareholders on future proposals," FirstGroup said.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
#########################################

The group, which recently tapped investors for £615m and cancelled its dividend, said its plans required "hard work and persistent delivery" for some time to come.

The message to shareholders at the company's annual meeting in Aberdeen comes after a turbulent year in which its growth plans were derailed by the botched bidding process surrounding the West Coast mainline.

The Aberdeen-based company, which operates First Great Western, First Capital Connect and First ScotRail, is now planning to pour £1.6bn into a four-year investment programme and tackle debts of nearly £2bn.

It has been encouraged by recent trading, with a solid performance in its rail division following like-for-like passenger revenues growth of 5.5 per cent in the period between April and the end of June.

There has also been progress in the turnaround of its UK bus arm after passenger revenues improved by 1.4 per cent on a like-for-like basis.

The group added that its recovery plan for its US student bus operation was on track, although its Greyhound coach arm continues to be impacted by the softness of the US economy.

Chief executive Tim O'Toole said: "Trading during the period was in line with our expectations. While we continue to see challenging conditions in some of our markets, there is considerable long term opportunity across the group.

"The task of returning the group to the position of strength that our customers, employees, and shareholders expect will require hard work and persistent delivery for some time to come, and we are pleased by the support of our shareholders in the recent rights issue."

After initially winning the West Coast bid, a review found flaws in the process, causing the takeover of the franchise from Virgin to be put on hold as well as delaying decisions on three other rail operations it already holds.

FirstGroup recently reported a fall in annual operating profits to £172.4m from £271.4m a year earlier.

 

[Volvodart]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/company-news/firstgroups-otoole-thanks-shareholders.21610539

FirstGroup's O'Toole thanks shareholders

Simon Bain

Business Correspondent/Personal Finance Editor.

Thursday 18 July 2013

Tim O'Toole, whose two-year reign as chief executive of FirstGroup has coincided with a share price collapse and a debt crisis, has publicly thanked shareholders for bearing the "burden" of the group's blockbusting £615 million rights issue.

Mr O'Toole told the annual meeting in Aberdeen: "I am extremely grateful that shareholders have expressed their faith in us by shouldering this additional burden this year to allow us to move forward, and extremely grateful I have a board of directors and a chairman willing to take on the challenge to make sure the right thing is done for the long-term future of the company."

FirstGroup's share price, which rallied to 260p last autumn when it won the aborted West Coast rail franchise, has collapsed from 220p in late May to 93p yesterday.

Mr O'Toole told the meeting the business was turning round its US student and UK bus businesses and meeting all the objectives he had promised a year ago.

He said: "We had plenty of liquidity, plenty of headroom under our banking covenants to complete the transformation, the thing we needed was the space and time with the ratings agencies that was provided to us by rail.

"When the West Coast debacle happened and the whole package of franchises collapsed and was extended into the future, the ratings agencies changed their view and it was forced onto management and this board."

He said that asset sales or accepting a credit downgrade had been rejected in favour of "continuing to invest in this company".

Chairman Martin Gilbert, who is standing down after 27 years at the firm, said afterwards: "That is what happens with share prices, they go too far one way and too far the other- this was a massive rights issue by any standard: £600m on a £1 billion market cap.

There are technical aspects, it will take a long time to digest this extra £600m, and in earnings per share terms people will want to see some evidence that there is some recovery coming through in UK Bus and (US) Student."

The chairman said new shareholders, previously deterred by the company's debt, would begin to look at the stock, and its re-rating "will be a gradual process".

On the prospects for the rail business, Mr Gilbert said: "The franchising process will restart and we will be in a good position- but it could be a while.

"Even if there was one now it would be a year to the start date, there is a big time-lag."

The group was negotiating new management contracts for two routes but "it doesn't make up for losing the West Coast" which had been a "body blow to the company and to morale", he said.

On Sir Richard Branson's battle to defend Virgin's franchise, he said: "If I was Virgin I would have done what they did... but we were really gagged, which gave Virgin a head start."

Mr Gilbert, who told The Herald last month that the company ought to have raised more equity when paying £1.8bn for Greyhound owner Laidlaw in 2007, said the board had originally planned to sell Greyhound to pay down debt but "everybody falls in love with Greyhound and we decided to keep it".

He went on: "Once we decided to keep it, we should have raised some money two years ago when Tim (O'Toole) took over but at that stage rail was in full cry, we had pre-qualified for West Coast – it has been pretty unlucky."

Mr Gilbert told some 50 shareholders at the meeting that the previous year had "actually been a period of solid performance across all five of our divisions".

Mr O'Toole said margins in the UK Bus could be doubled to 10% over four years.

"That may sound like a hairy plan, but when you consider our competitors have margins of around 12%, this it there for the taking."

First said like-for-like UK bus revenue was up 1.4% in the first quarter while rail was up 5.5%.

 

[overthewater]

A few more links which seems to repeat the above

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-23349652

Interesting bit is this:

Investment plans
The Aberdeen-based company, which operates First Great Western, First Capital Connect and First ScotRail, is now planning to pour £1.6bn into a four-year investment programme and tackle debts of nearly £2bn.

It has been encouraged by recent trading, with a solid performance in its rail division following like-for-like passenger revenues growth of 5.5% in the period between April and the end of June.

There has also been progress in the turnaround of its UK bus arm after passenger revenues improved by 1.4% on a like-for-like basis.

The group added that its recovery plan for its US student bus operation was on track, although its Greyhound coach arm continues to be impacted by the softness of the US economy.

Chief executive Tim O'Toole said: "Trading during the period was in line with our expectations. While we continue to see challenging conditions in some of our markets, there is considerable long-term opportunity across the group.

"The task of returning the group to the position of strength that our customers, employees, and shareholders expect will require hard work and persistent delivery for some time to come, and we are pleased by the support of our shareholders in the recent rights issue."

 

[robertclark125]

The decision on whether or not the OFT will clear the takeover of Redditch and Kidderminster depots by Rotala Diamond Bus should be known by Friday. What do you think will happen, clearance or referral to the competition commission, or some other outcome?

 

[Mr Manager]

Hi Guys.

Came across this forum and thought i would share some info with you.

First of all I'm a manager of a well known bus company and i can assure you that first will within a short time offer the Suffolk area for sale also. Ipswich having just lost the Park and Ride contract back to Ipswich Buses. means that the Garage will lose a pvr of 5-6 Buses and revenue far in excess of most local services. At the moment First are fast losing ground in Suffolk to Anglian/konnect/Ipswich Buses/Sanders etc etc. The Norwich network has just broken into profit but not by a great deal and certainly not to the expectations of the board. and should Suffolk be sold then it is out on a limb as far as area being considered its nearest parent being First Essex. I will update as and when possible.

 

[overthewater]

Sell off is surposed to have finished?

I'm not surprised about ipswich, a lot of waste down on the town services, tu many sticking to green company.

Norfolk network, just the city operations or great yarmouth aswell?

 

[Mr Manager]

Agree with you on the Green well now purple and god knows what else But then again they run a fantastic well used network at good fares and decent well maintained and presented Buses on frequencies not seen much elsewhere in the country outside London that is.

From my info Lowestoft and Yarmouth WorstBus would get rid of tomorrow if the right offer was made. don't forget Go Ahead already own 49% of Ipswich Buses in a deal done 2 years ago.In mine and others opinions Worstbus in Ipswich on paper is worth nothing. the lease on the depot in star lane expires in just over 3 years and has no real asset base. most of the routes either duplicating or close by a Ipswich buses route and i think i know which company the passengers prefer.

From sources it wont be one of the big groups that get it.

 

[Ivo]

I find it somewhat ironic that Chelmsford is considered a "parent" operation now. So many areas are effectively operated from there, right through to Leicester, and yet Essex have their own problems to deal with - much of the South Essex review has been a failure (much like the Southend Metro ten years earlier). I could go on for hours as to the problems said network has had, but let's not go there...

As for Suffolk? Not sure who would go for it. It's too remote...

Sell off is surposed to have finished?

The position First are in, thy can't realy say this with any real foundations. If the right offer came along they would still go for it.

 

[overthewater]

Here is the problem, IF Go ahead buy 51% Ispwish buses, and Yarmouth operations from First plus NG, I dont think CC or OFT will be either happy or simperfetic.

So First Norfolk is in the black? Is any area BAR Cornwall or First Scotland East in the red?

 

[Volvodart]

Is any area BAR Cornwall or First Scotland East in the red?

The accounts are usually not lodged until the last possible time, which is December 2013. With UK bus operating profits down a third, it is likely that there are a few loss making companies.

 

[overthewater]

The accounts are usually not lodged until the last possible time, which is December 2013. With UK bus operating profits down a third, it is likely that there are a few loss making companies.

To be fair Fig were already making, which has only been resolved with last September changes and the closure of Cumbernauld, I hope.

What could have caused the profits to be dragged down? Is there single cause? or was it across the broad.

 

[Surreyman]

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that all routes in the former Eastern Counties area of ' Wurst' i.e everything in Norfolk & Suffolk are registered commercial routes?
(the Ipswich P & R is presumably the only exception).
If Ipswich/Lowestoft/Gt Yarmouth are money losers (or at least merely breaking even) who would want to buy?
Would be nice to see Go Ahead in the form of Anglianbus register competing services in these areas pile on the pressure and force First out.

 

[90sWereBetter]

That's odd, because I was talking with some fellow members at the EATM last Thursday and apparently Yarmouth and Lowestoft are making money. Anglian Bus are ending their 146 route (Norwich-Lowestoft), which was in direct competition with First's X2 route, from September, so I think things are rosy for First down here in East Anglia.