First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

[jb66]

First bus 18 quite interesting, basically the x18 from Lothian duplicated?

 

[Graham Alexand]

First bus 18 quite interesting, basically the x18 from Lothian duplicated?

Technically that service 18 is a renumbering of old Sunday service 20, so it technically came before Lothian Country

 

[Siemens Trains]

Justification? See the last two pages of this thread compared with the complete timetables of other companies in West Lothian.

I can see what you're getting at, if a little cryptically, and on balance I do agree. However locally my experience from First on route 63, Lothian Buses on route 63 and Lothian Country on route 43 is at odds with that. From what I recall First never cut back on the 63 timetable until January 2022. Lothian Buses cut the 63 timetable immediately Covid hit in 2020. Lothian Country have cut back the 43 too, and for a while it has run every half hour on Monday to Saturday (as per the Sunday timetable), with a few additional morning journeys. Sound familiar? Horsburgh had a number of difficulties in late 2021.
Lothian Country also effectively withdrew their X38 service in 2020, apparently due to the Covid situation, although not necessarily a staff shortage. I can't remember the story with the X2.
Overall I agree First appear to be struggling and are unlikely to continue with their current West Lothian network in the longer term. But there are some counterexamples where "other companies" have been more seriously impacted.

 

[overthewater]

First bus 18 quite interesting, basically the x18 from Lothian duplicated?

Technically that service 18 is a renumbering of old Sunday service 20, so it technically came before Lothian Country

Its A council contract, Sunday bit still is.

I can see what you're getting at, if a little cryptically, and on balance I do agree. However locally my experience from First on route 63, Lothian Buses on route 63 and Lothian Country on route 43 is at odds with that. From what I recall First never cut back on the 63 timetable until January 2022. Lothian Buses cut the 63 timetable immediately Covid hit in 2020. Lothian Country have cut back the 43 too, and for a while it has run every half hour on Monday to Saturday (as per the Sunday timetable), with a few additional morning journeys. Sound familiar? Horsburgh had a number of difficulties in late 2021.
Lothian Country also effectively withdrew their X38 service in 2020, apparently due to the Covid situation, although not necessarily a staff shortage. I can't remember the story with the X2.
Overall I agree First appear to be struggling and are unlikely to continue with their current West Lothian network in the longer term. But there are some counterexamples where "other companies" have been more seriously impacted.

To be fair, Lothian no63 went above what the council contract stated; of course the route did serve alot of employment areas hence the cut with Covid, like many other routes. First are doing what the council asked up until recently.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I can see what you're getting at, if a little cryptically, and on balance I do agree. However locally my experience from First on route 63, Lothian Buses on route 63 and Lothian Country on route 43 is at odds with that. From what I recall First never cut back on the 63 timetable until January 2022. Lothian Buses cut the 63 timetable immediately Covid hit in 2020. Lothian Country have cut back the 43 too, and for a while it has run every half hour on Monday to Saturday (as per the Sunday timetable), with a few additional morning journeys. Sound familiar? Horsburgh had a number of difficulties in late 2021.
Lothian Country also effectively withdrew their X38 service in 2020, apparently due to the Covid situation, although not necessarily a staff shortage. I can't remember the story with the X2.
Overall I agree First appear to be struggling and are unlikely to continue with their current West Lothian network in the longer term. But there are some counterexamples where "other companies" have been more seriously impacted.

Using cuts to routes at the start of the pandemic to now is a false equivalence. Besides, the previous operator of the 20/63 went above and beyond by continuing to operate it beyond the end of the contract as the current operator was unable to fulfill it.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Using cuts to routes at the start of the pandemic to now is a false equivalence. Besides, the previous operator of the 20/63 went above and beyond by continuing to operate it beyond the end of the contract as the current operator was unable to fulfill it.

How could you possibly know that.

 

[CN04NRJ]

How could you possibly know that.

Because that was literally the reason Lothian continued to operate it until it was handed over to First. Covid related staff/staff training issues.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Does anyone know or have a list of which depot runs which routes?

Thanks in advance

 

[stantheman]

The 63 when I have seen it in Balerno is usually empty . Wonder how long it will continue

 

[stevenedin]

Livingston depot
18, 20, 21, X22, X23 (suspended), X24, X25, 26, 26A, 27 (suspended), 63, 68 & 600

Larbert depot
1, H1, H2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6A, 7, 8, F14, F16, F25, 29, F29, 35, X36, X37, 38, X38 & F45

Bannockburn depot
UL, C1, C11, C30, C48, 51, 52, X53 (suspended), 54, 57, 59, S60 & 160

Balfron depot
X10 & X10A

I could be wrong but this I what I got from the information online

The 63 is probably empty because of Covid. Hopefully it doesn't get cut as it's a good link.

 

[stantheman]

Livingston depot
18, 20, 21, X22, X23 (suspended), X24, X25, 26, 26A, 27 (suspended), 63, 68 & 600

Larbert depot
1, H1, H2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6A, 7, 8, F14, F16, F25, 29, F29, 35, X36, X37, 38, X38 & F45

Bannockburn depot
UL, C1, C11, C30, C48, 51, 52, X53 (suspended), 54, 57, 59, S60 & 160

Balfron depot
X10 & X10A

I could be wrong but this I what I got from the information online

The 63 is probably empty because of Covid. Hopefully it doesn't get cut as it's a good link.

I think there were few passengers if the service started before Covid ...

 

[Siemens Trains]

I think there were few passengers if the service started before Covid ...

The route from Calder Road or Riccarton up to Balerno has never been well patronised in my experience. LRT and Eastern Scottish piloted a few trials in the 1980s but they never really took off. There have been a few tenders over the years as well, apparently backed by public/councillor demand but without materialising into bums fillling seats.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Livingston depot
18, 20, 21, X22, X23 (suspended), X24, X25, 26, 26A, 27 (suspended), 63, 68 & 600

Larbert depot
1, H1, H2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6A, 7, 8, F14, F16, F25, 29, F29, 35, X36, X37, 38, X38 & F45

Bannockburn depot
UL, C1, C11, C30, C48, 51, 52, X53 (suspended), 54, 57, 59, S60 & 160

Balfron depot
X10 & X10A

I could be wrong but this I what I got from the information online

The 63 is probably empty because of Covid. Hopefully it doesn't get cut as it's a good link.

H1, H2, F16 and X36 are all Bannockburn routes

 

[stevenedin]

Thanks I wasn’t sure. Good to know

 

[adrock1976]

Did First MB ever participate in the Simplicity network changes back in 2013 like Glasgow did?

I had 69108 single deck on the X36 from Greenfaulds to Glasgow on Wednesday, and this had the red "Simplicity" banner on top to the left of the passenger doors.

 

[Observer]

They were recently transferred to Bannockburn and some haven't been repainted out of the previous livery.

 

[cnjb8]

Former 75 branded vehicles off to Midland Bluebird. 1 on 1 replacements for the 22 Omnidekkas

First Midland Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 MMC 33202

First Midland Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 MMC Euro 6 (33202) ex First Glasgow Service 75 route branded looking smart after a repaint into the First Midland livery captured at Caledonia Depot it would be an offence for anyone to copy this photo , uploaded with permission from First Glasgow

flic.kr

OmniDekkas being replaced by ex-Glasgow E400 MMCs

 

[ScotRail158725]

OmniDekkas being replaced by ex-Glasgow E400 MMCs

Yes that what i said in the post…

 

[stevenedin]

Will the omnidekkas be going to Glasgow or elsewhere in the First fleet?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

What do First have against just giving FSE new stock. Why do they always poach second hand stock?

 

[cnjb8]

Yes that what i said in the post…

It doesn’t let you post a message with less than 5 characters so I’d thought I’d caption it!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What do First have against just giving FSE new stock. Why do they always poach second hand stock?

Because FSE doesn’t make the money to justify new stock when there’s a limit on capital spend

 

[ScotRail158725]

What do First have against just giving FSE new stock. Why do they always poach second hand stock?

3 year old buses is a hardly “second hand stock” compared to the rest of the stuff they typically get handed down

Will the omnidekkas be going to Glasgow or elsewhere in the First fleet?

Would be surprised if many if any get away from scrap. Non standard fleet. They certainly won’t be going to Glasgow anyway

Did First MB ever participate in the Simplicity network changes back in 2013 like Glasgow did?

I had 69108 single deck on the X36 from Greenfaulds to Glasgow on Wednesday, and this had the red "Simplicity" banner on top to the left of the passenger doors.

former First glasgow bus thats not been relieveried yet

 

[DunsBus]

3 year old buses is a hardly “second hand stock” compared to the rest of the stuff they typically get handed down


Would be surprised if many if any get away from scrap. Non standard fleet. They certainly won’t be going to Glasgow anyway


former First glasgow bus thats not been relieveried yet

Not so long ago Scotland East was the dumping ground for other companies' end-of-life cast-offs, with very little investment in new stock (and not exactly helped by the Lockhead era policy of investing in new buses for a few select fleets only). The current situation is definitely an improvement.

 

[UK Bus Spotter]

As the new 202 from Kinross service is running due to the X53 being suspended, I was hoping to get the 1040 from Kinross to Tillicoultry but is there a connection around 1110 towards stirling from Tillicoultry?

 

[Baileygirl]

OmniDekkas being replaced by ex-Glasgow E400 MMCs

its strange that First Glasgow are giving away Euro 6 buses. Its not so long since they took the Euro 6 E400 MMCs from Livingston.

 

[Graham Alexand]

its strange that First Glasgow are giving away Euro 6 buses. Its not so long since they took the Euro 6 E400 MMCs from Livingston.

I think this was due to the PVR increase across the network from the major service change in Livingston/ West Lothian in 2018. The same number of people travelling, just more sporadically, but, this obviously decreased when Lothian Country came to West Lothian, providing additional options for travel.

Will Livingston be getting newer cascades at some point, does anyone know?

 

[Volvodart]

Will Livingston be getting newer cascades at some point, does anyone know?

They have funding for Euro 6 emissions upgrades which probably is to upgrade some of the existing Streetlites, but the number of upgrades is about the same as the number of older single deckers. Some newer buses would be required if it was the older buses that were to be upgraded as a lot are too old to receive the funding.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I think this was due to the PVR increase across the network from the major service change in Livingston/ West Lothian in 2018. The same number of people travelling, just more sporadically, but, this obviously decreased when Lothian Country came to West Lothian, providing additional options for travel.

No, The Enviro 400MMCs and B9TLs that left Livingston for Glasgow were so Glasgow could replace Euro 3 tridents and have LEZ compliant vehicles

Will Livingston be getting newer cascades at some point, does anyone know?

They’ve just been cascaded a few Ex Greater Manchester B7RLEs a few months ago and the vast majority of the West Lothian fleet is under 10 years old so no

 

[Baileygirl]

No, The Enviro 400MMCs and B9TLs that left Livingston for Glasgow were so Glasgow could replace Euro 3 tridents and have LEZ compliant vehicles


They’ve just been cascaded a few Ex Greater Manchester B7RLEs a few months ago and the vast majority of the West Lothian fleet is under 10 year old so no

Livingston only have about 15 euro6 buses, 10 E400 MMCs plus 6 Streetlights (62351 - 5/76). 63252/3 been in workshops for over two years getting their engines rebuilt. I don't know if of any other Streetlights have been upgraded. If Edinburgh get their clean air zone up and running this may change.