Whistler40145
Established Member
Are we plainly saying that until a debate takes place that First Group have their hands tied?
Are we plainly saying that until a debate takes place that First Group have their hands tied?
First Group have been awarded the InterCity West Coast franchise, that is the end of the matterAre we plainly saying that until a debate takes place that First Group have their hands tied?
First Group have been awarded the InterCity West Coast franchise, that is the end of the matter
DfT have the process in place to finalise the contract on Tuesday 28 August 2012
The government (parliament and respective committees) can debate the issue all they want, nothing will change
I am always amazed how anger is created when contracts end, jobs are lost, etc
Not everything lasts for ever
If you have an employment contract that is awarded until a specific date, then why should you be angry that it was not extended / renewed?
I don't know. I went on a Stagecoach in East Kent rural bus 2 weeks ago. It as filthy inside and out, it rattled violently and juddered horribly when braking. The noise from underneath the back sounded like the back axle was a bit tired. And the driver was driving like a maniac at high speeds down narrow lanes not even slowing down for oncoming cars, cyclists etc. It was worth the £3.80 for the ride, which was more frightening and hair raising than a rollercoaster at a theme park.I think Stagecoach should have been awarded the contract. I worked for Stagecoach and find their employee relations are not good but Stagecoach have a better fleet than First cosmetically.
but Stagecoach have a better fleet than First cosmetically.
My unlimited download with BE Broadband knocks VM out the park. £10.21 a month, totally unlimited. Not like VM with their traffic management policy. An adequate 9Mb connection. Yes that's slower than I can get with VM through fibre optic but it's less than half the price of their cheapest 20mb standalone. Then there's VM line rental. That brings the broadband price down a bit, but at around £15 a month it's a lot more than I pay to Primus Telecom (£9.19).
Sadly the franchising process does not work like this, the bid was placed by Virgin Rail Group, and so could not be retrospectively considered to either Virgin Group or Stagecoach Group (and the relevant newly created subsidiary)If there was a choice I think Stagecoach should have been awarded the contract
And to the comment about the WCML being the lifeblood to so many communities; what do you think could happen? First mess up and the line is closed?
The trains will always run and IF First did go bust (unlikely) then DOR would step in. There would be no break in service and some might even argue that it would be even better for the taxpayer!
Not so much that, but it is the method on which the franchises are basedIf you like we're back to this debate over public service v commercial concerns.
To what extent can Virgin be credited for what happened on the West Coast? Infrastructure work was carried out and paid for by Railtrack/Network Rail. The trains (the majority of which were voted as having the worst interior out of all long-distance trains in the country) were specified internally by Virgin and paid for by Roscos. The timetable was specified and written by the DfT and Network Rail.I don't think for the majority anger is the issue, I think it's more to do with the fact Virgin did turn things around on what really is considered the poor relation to the East Coast Main Line.
personally there is something fishy happening at the DFT
I don't think for the majority anger is the issue, I think it's more to do with the fact Virgin did turn things around on what really is considered the poor relation to the East Coast Main Line
To what extent can Virgin be credited for what happened on the West Coast?
To what extent can Virgin be credited for what happened on the West Coast? Infrastructure work was carried out and paid for by Railtrack/Network Rail. The trains (the majority of which were voted as having the worst interior out of all long-distance trains in the country) were specified internally by Virgin and paid for by Roscos. The timetable was specified and written by the DfT and Network Rail.
In the failure of Railtrack to deliver the originally agreed changes to the line, to enable faster running, Virgin got the chance to go back to the drawing board and rewrite part of the contract, creaming millions from the taxpayer on what is a profitmaking service. I don't criticise them for doing this, as it is their business, but am using it as an example to ask to what extent Virgin are responsible for the changes on the West Coast.
I don't know. I went on a Stagecoach in East Kent rural bus 2 weeks ago. It as filthy inside and out, it rattled violently and juddered horribly when braking. The noise from underneath the back sounded like the back axle was a bit tired. And the driver was driving like a maniac at high speeds down narrow lanes not even slowing down for oncoming cars, cyclists etc. It was worth the £3.80 for the ride, which was more frightening and hair raising than a rollercoaster at a theme park.
To what extent can Virgin be credited for what happened on the West Coast? Infrastructure work was carried out and paid for by Railtrack/Network Rail. The trains (the majority of which were voted as having the worst interior out of all long-distance trains in the country) were specified internally by Virgin and paid for by Roscos. The timetable was specified and written by the DfT and Network Rail.
DfT Rail didn't exist back then, I'd be very surprised if the interior of the 390s was strictly specified and forced on Virgin by OPRAF who generally let that TOCs have more freedom than the SRA and DfT later did.Wrong way round, Virgin specified the trains and placed a provisional order even before they won the franchise and a joint Dft led committee specified the interior after they won the franchise. Timetables are proposed by Tocs and then approved or rejected by government.
Not really, my understanding is most of the Virgin people love working for Virgin. That's the sort of employee loyalty that is pretty hard to come by these days.
That's the other thing the DFT need to look at. What effect does a franchise change have on the morale of staff and public perception?
The epetition isn't based on lies. Besides, what have Virgin offered in their bid?
I'd actually like to see what you lot would be like, given you were in his situation.
Timetables are proposed by Tocs and then approved or rejected .....
Not really, my understanding is most of the Virgin people love working for Virgin. That's the sort of employee loyalty that is pretty hard to come by these days.
That's the other thing the DFT need to look at. What effect does a franchise change have on the morale of staff and public perception? Does a poor public perception or employee loyalty actually damage the franchise? Is this considered in the franchise process? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it.
Brand is absolutely everything in the modern business world. We may sniff at it, call it spin, but image and perception is absolutely everything whether we like it or not.
As for the petition being ignored, to my knowledge only 10 have ever gone over the 100,000 mark. This is a modern democracy with lots of tax payer's money at stake. Remember, the WCML is the economic lifeblood between London, the West Midlands, the North West, the Lakes and Glasgow affecting business and the lives of millions. In short this is an important issue.
It would be very unwise for our politicians and the civil service to just sign it off and disregard it IHMO without a proper debate and more transparency on the selection process and an examination by professionals in the field to conclude whether it is robust.
I am of the view that Virgin was the glue that got the WCRM delivered in the end, because their contracts were sufficiently watertight for the other parties (DfT, RT/NR) to be forced to deliver.
They at least had leadership (Chris Green) at the point where it all went belly up, with the "BR brigade" just shrugging its shoulders about the fact that it had signed up for a railway it couldn't deliver.
I'm not saying that makes them entitled to a new contract, but they are not just any old TOC. Branson could have walked away and let it all fall on the floor.
I don't really care about who gets the contract, but I do want the West Coast to prosper and not sink back into the mediocrity that was the 1980s/90s.
I'm not even sure the First bid will do that.
I'd rather they spent money on station upgrades than gates.
I went on a Stagecoach in East Kent rural bus 2 weeks ago. It as filthy inside and out, it rattled violently and juddered horribly when braking. The noise from underneath the back sounded like the back axle was a bit tired
Similar story with many Stagecoach East (United Counties side) vehicles, which were replaced by newer buses, which have now been taken back and the older vehicles returned to service..
The Transport Secretary isn't refusing to appear before the committee. Parliament is in recess until 3 September and the Committee has not asked her to appear before her already scheduled routine hearing on 12 September.Transport Secretary refusing to appear before the committee until the week after its signed shows just how desperate the Government is to avoid scrutiny