First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[jon0844]

...with the comment about First slowing down the service particularly there definitely appeared to be a reasonable amount of belief in what they were saying, too. The brief exchange just amused me a little, rather than irritating, and I thought it worth sharing here.

Some people clearly have no idea how a business works, and that there's no logical reason for First to slow down any trains, increase fares and sack staff if they're banking on growing passenger numbers.

Yes, a private company has a duty to make money for shareholders, but most shareholders (who could be you or me) are sensible enough to realise you don't suddenly make oodles of profit by making stupid decisions.

People can genuinely show concern for how First might re-brand the route, restyle the interiors, what they might change in terms of catering and whether the allocation of advance tickets may change on any given service - but there's certain stuff that is fixed and First cannot (and will not) change, like rolling stock or the majority of staff employed today. Chances are they'll even re-hire a lot of fixed-term contract staff if they get the chance, without Virgin meddling any further.
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They'll probably repaint one or two trains for the launch of the franchise and the rest will run around in VT Silver with FWC vinyl's stuck on the side until they're due a repaint. Either way in the grand scheme of things I'm less than convinced by the argument that repaints somehow cost a great deal of money.

More ignorance from the general public I guess.. in that they don't realise the trains would need repainting periodically anyway, and I'm sure Virgin has given the 390s a new coat of paint/vinyls already during their operation.

 

[dave59]

I wish somebody in the media could slip this fact in somewhere as it's seriously annoying me (and I can imagine I'm not the only one). I was at Stafford a couple of weeks ago and I overheard a family who were discussing Virgin losing West Coast; one of them asked what Virgin were going to do with their trains! Would it really be that difficult to explain that rolling stock is owned by leasing companies and then leased to the operators? :roll:

Hardly surprising when there's so much branding - it's a Virgin train! There should be an Intercity livery (or an ICWC livery) with a small sign at each door entrance saying "Operated by xxx for the DfT/Railways agency". Far too difficult for Villiers & co to devise. Just lump the cost of re-branding onto the fare payer.

 

[bnm]

Just lump the cost of re-branding onto the fare payer.

Exactly as it was in BR days. The Pendolinos and Virgin Voyagers have been in the same livery for 11 years.

Compare that with Western Region HSTs. Three substantive livery changes between 1976 and 1996, or an average of one every six/seven years.

 

[Wath Yard]

The colour of trains on the WCML has nothing to do with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I suppose BR never changed livery or rebranded? The lens on the camera I used from the mid 80s until privatisation must have quite a lot of distortion if that was the case.

 

[Aictos]

I'm fairly sure Network Rail are in the middle of an upgrade that will introduce some sections of 125mph running. Certainly they're looking at raising linespeeds along the MML. There was a useful document (that of course I didn't save :roll that outlined exactly where and what the speed increases would be.

I'm not too familiar with the Midland Mainline hence why I added question marks to my statement.

 

[Masboroughlad]

Anybody know / does it say anywhere whether First would keep the Pretendolino set on West Coast?

 

[Manchester77]

I was watching something where Richard Branson said that first groups bid was preposterous and undeliverable and then they went to tim o tools who simply replied he hasn't seen our bid so how could he know!?

He has a point. Does anyone know what's happening with ICWC? Is it set to go to first or DoR??

 

[krus_aragon]

ATW's class 175s still show elements of the original First (ex-FNW) livery (the lilac band at waist level in the saloons) even after a full refit and repaint.
Goes very badly with the Arriva green seats/carpet.

In fairness, their recent 158 refurbishments have only just gotten rid of the last remnants of regional railways livery from the saloons! :P
(The replaced overhead luggage shelves had a dark and light blue RR stripe along their length.)

 

[Morgsie]

There is a Westminster Hall Debate on Monday

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I was watching something where Richard Branson said that first groups bid was preposterous and undeliverable and then they went to tim o tools who simply replied he hasn't seen our bid so how could he know!?

He has a point. Does anyone know what's happening with ICWC? Is it set to go to first or DoR??

DOR will take over if the case isn't solved by the 9th December.

 

[tbtc]

I suppose BR never changed livery or rebranded? The lens on the camera I used from the mid 80s until privatisation must have quite a lot of distortion if that was the case.

Surely every company that ran a franchise for more than one "period" rebranded? FGW have, obviously, GNER introduced the red doors, Virgin used to be black with white stripes at the end of the loco/coaches...

(with the possible exception of Stagecoach SWT? can't remember their initial colour scheme, if they had one)

 

[ainsworth74]

Does anyone know what's happening with ICWC? Is it set to go to first or DoR??

Nobody knows yet.

 

[transmanche]

(with the possible exception of Stagecoach SWT? can't remember their initial colour scheme, if they had one)

Basically NSE with the addition of an orange stripe.

 

[Manchester77]

^^^^
didnt that colour scheme still require a full repaint though, im sure i read it somewhere?

 

[jon0844]

It would make sense to do a full repaint or else it would get out of sync.

 

[Manchester77]

Nobody knows yet.

i thought as much. thanks

 

[dave59]

The colour of trains on the WCML has nothing to do with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I suppose BR never changed livery or rebranded? The lens on the camera I used from the mid 80s until privatisation must have quite a lot of distortion if that was the case.

BR blue was pretty universal for 20 years (up until the mid 80's). How about some continuity? Scotrail seem to have got it. A smart corporate image with uniformity across the network.

 

[Whistler40145]

Should trains in England then be painted/vinyls with the Union Flag?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In fairness, their recent 158 refurbishments have only just gotten rid of the last remnants of regional railways livery from the saloons! :P
(The replaced overhead luggage shelves had a dark and light blue RR stripe along their length.)

Off track I know - but am very impressed with the ATW refurbs - would be quite happy to sit in one West Midlands to Euston ! Very well thought out job - seats comfy with dimple for head , power points , tables etc.

 

[Nym]

Should trains in England then be painted/vinyls with the Union Flag?

Scottish and Welsh ones aren't so I'm going to say no...

 

[bnm]

Scottish and Welsh ones aren't so I'm going to say no...

Err.... ScotRail's current livery features a stylised Saltaire.

 

[bnm]

BR blue was pretty universal for 20 years (up until the mid 80's). How about some continuity?

As I said earlier, HST's had three distinct liveries between 1976-1996. BR Blue was initially all over but was supplanted by blue and grey after less than 10 years. That was further supplanted by NSE and Regional Railways liveries in the mid eighties.

Virgin' largely unchanged livery at 11 years old is positively ancient, even by BRs standards.

 

[Whistler40145]

Well, I am glad to hear that!

 

[WatcherZero]

Scottish and Welsh ones aren't so I'm going to say no...

Scottish ones are based on the Saltire so I dont see why we cant have a St George themed livery in England

 

[Skimble19]

Can we please not turn this thread into the usual moaning about trains needing to be in one livery with a little logo on the door? It's not going to happen, move on!

Back to West Coast, I note Bob is attempting to get some press coverage again.. Pathetic.

 

[Nym]

Scottish ones are based on the Saltire so I dont see why we cant have a St George themed livery in England

Because we're English, and therefore not allowed to use our devolved national identity as it's seen as being racist. (Not helped by the EDL.)

 

[YorkshireRider]

Surely every company that ran a franchise for more than one "period" rebranded? FGW have, obviously, GNER introduced the red doors, Virgin used to be black with white stripes at the end of the loco/coaches...

(with the possible exception of Stagecoach SWT? can't remember their initial colour scheme, if they had one)

We were told at the time by GNER, the red doors were to aid the partially sighted, and it going to be law for train companies to have theire doors a different colour from the rest of the train for this reason, there was a year all companies had to comply by, but I can't remember what it was.

 

[transmanche]

Can we please not turn this thread into the usual moaning about trains needing to be in one livery with a little logo on the door? It's not going to happen, move on!.

Why not? It's taken over 25 years, but that is what's happened to buses in London.

 

[Lee W]

It's now happening with buses mirrors there being painted yellow so people of a certain height don't hit there heads

 

[90019]

It's now happening with buses mirrors there being painted yellow so people of a certain height don't hit there heads

Those who walk into the n/s mirror on the buses I drive are prety much always looking at the ground rather than where they're going, so a brightly coloured mirror would make no difference whatsoever.