Football

[Ivo]

Here's an interesting scenario for everyone.

Last weekend, Luton beat Wolves in the FA Cup. There are two entire divisions between them, plus some Championship and Conference clubs. Strong(-ish) history or not, Luton were definitely the underdogs and deservedly won the title of Giant Killers.

This weekend however, the tables are turned on Luton, as they play host to Skelmersdale United of the Northern 1DN in the FA Trophy - whose own interval to Luton matches that stated above between Luton and Wolves. Skem are unbeaten in the League; they have won 15 of 17 for a total of 47 points from 51 - however, their cup form has left them with six games in hand on Mossley and as a result they are behind by four points!

Supposing Skem won this game, what would it say about Wolves...?

 

[SS4]

Here's an interesting scenario for everyone.

Last weekend, Luton beat Wolves in the FA Cup. There are two entire divisions between them, plus some Championship and Conference clubs. Strong(-ish) history or not, Luton were definitely the underdogs and deservedly won the title of Giant Killers.

This weekend however, the tables are turned on Luton, as they play host to Skelmersdale United of the Northern 1DN in the FA Trophy - whose own interval to Luton matches that stated above between Luton and Wolves. Skem are unbeaten in the League; they have won 15 of 17 for a total of 47 points from 51 - however, their cup form has left them with six games in hand on Mossley and as a result they are behind by four points!

Supposing Skem won this game, what would it say about Wolves...?

I'd say they'd be Froakied

 

[Chapeltom]

Hull City away tomorrow, 2nd v 22nd, I think were going to get annihilated.

 

[richw]

The chairman - Oysten is apparently one hell of a difficult guy to work with, one of the reasons I believe why Holloway left for Palace.

Just ask Sam Allardyce
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I'm not sure I recall a proposal from Scotland, Belgium, Holland et al, but I do of course recall the Super League proposals from the late 90s or whenever it was - essentially a league competition for the top clubs of Europe, represented from an English perspective at the time by United and Arsenal (and possibly Chelsea, I can't remember for certain).

dont forget Newcastle United.

1997-98 Newcastle United, Man Utd,
1998-99 Man Utd, Arsenal
1999-2000 Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd,
2000-01 Arsenal, Man Utd, Leeds. (Leeds reached the Semis)
2001-02 Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool
2002-03 Arsenal, Man Utd, Newcastle, Liverpool
2003-04 Arsenal, Man Utd, Newcastle, Chelsea.

 

[12CSVT]

Note- Berwick Rangers have they home ground in England but play in the Scottish League

And for many years, Gretna played in an English league (Northern Premier) when their ground was in Scotland.

 

[CC 72100]

You can also get it through positive feedback - someone is portrayed by the media as dirty, so referees subconsciously pick up on it and give more fouls/cards against said player, enhancing the reputation of being dirty and so the cycle repeats.

That may or may not be the case RE: Suarez but I cannot bring myself to believe that he is as dirty as the media makes him out to be, especially given the baselessness of the latter.

Yes, I understand where you're coming from, similar to labelling theory/ self-fulfilling prophecy that I studied in sociology. I think that could well be possible, but there has to have been something to start the cycle. You can't exaggerate something that doesn't already exist.

 

[Oswyntail]

And now, by coincidence, Mad Uncle Hamish has given an interview in which he describes Suarez as "laden with controversy". Ferguson does this sort of thing ahead of matches he is anxious about, and generally speaks about those players he is anxious about. It should be a compliment, really, but it is designed to make the referees mind play on the apparent bad reputation. Of course this itself is a form of cheating, and the old pot calling the kettle black. I expect his players will see that as carte blanche to prod Suarez into retaliating, as frequently happens. And the commentators will chuckle about his clever "mind games".
And, of course it is possible to exaggerate something that isn't there. For instance, look at the Australian treatment of Muralitharan's bowling action which, IIRC, was proven time and again to be legal. Again IIRC, he was no-balled for "chucking" many more time playing against Australia, though.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The "Friday night" match...

Wolverhampton Wanderers 1...Blackburn Rovers 1

A meeting of two clubs in the "managerial" merry-go-round of late.
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And now, by coincidence, Mad Uncle Hamish has given an interview in which he describes Suarez as "laden with controversy". Ferguson does this sort of thing ahead of matches he is anxious about, and generally speaks about those players he is anxious about.

As much as everyone calls him on this forum, we would be the first to admit that life would be very boring if he was not there, large as life, every week..:roll:

Bob Crow seems to perform a similar role on some of the more "railway-related" forums on this website.

 

[JoeH]

And now, by coincidence, Mad Uncle Hamish has given an interview in which he describes Suarez as "laden with controversy". Ferguson does this sort of thing ahead of matches he is anxious about, and generally speaks about those players he is anxious about. It should be a compliment, really, but it is designed to make the referees mind play on the apparent bad reputation. Of course this itself is a form of cheating, and the old pot calling the kettle black. I expect his players will see that as carte blanche to prod Suarez into retaliating, as frequently happens. And the commentators will chuckle about his clever "mind games".
And, of course it is possible to exaggerate something that isn't there. For instance, look at the Australian treatment of Muralitharan's bowling action which, IIRC, was proven time and again to be legal. Again IIRC, he was no-balled for "chucking" many more time playing against Australia, though.

All the mangers take press questions, most of them will be asked to comment on the issues of the moment and many will give their opinions. When it comes to Ferguson anything he says becomes a news story and the reactions to him we see in this thread are a great indication why. It would be naive to think that it's just him who comments on players.

From an article on BBC Sport:

During his press conference at United's Carrington training ground on Friday morning, Ferguson was pressed repeatedly for his thoughts on the Liverpool striker, with reference to his role in Sunday's controversial FA Cup win over Mansfield.
The Scot had not seen the game in question, but what he did say was that Suarez was "a lad laden with controversy".
It was a soundbite to launch a thousand headlines but the United manager's answer was not delivered as a gibe.
Ferguson, like everyone else, was expressing an honest opinion just as the Mansfield chairman and chief executive had when they accused the Liverpool striker of being a "cheat" and "stealing" the FA Cup tie away from their club at Field Mill."

So Ferguson answers the questions he asked and gets attacked. I seem to remember in the past his refusal to answer questions and his long term boycott of BBC journalists also attracted criticism.

He just cannot win.

 

[Chew Chew]

Neither of whom have said we are a new club. There is a difference between a newco and a phoenix club.

What happened to us is no different to what happened to Leeds United in 2007 - when the SPL's own Neil Doncaster was party to the decision that the newco Leeds should stay in League 1.

Still, whatever floats your boat.

Green said that if the CVA never went through then the history of Rangers was gone, the CVA never went through.

Traynor had an article in the Daily Record which said the history, which Charles Green later claimed to have bought, belonged to someone else.

If you aren't a new club then why are your officials saying that the history of the old club was lost? If you aren't a new club then why is Green claiming to have bought the history from someone else?

 

[Robinson]

Funny, I'm actually reading an interview from Charles Green right now, in which he discusses Rangers' recent invitation to participate in discussions with the ECA as associate members. (If we were a new club, we would certainly not be members of the ECA, not while we're still not in the top flight at any rate.)

I went out last year to the conference to introduce myself and let them know where Rangers were going and trying to get to.

We received a letter in December from the European Clubs Association and in that letter they stated that they agreed that Rangers today is the same Rangers and that was very refreshing to read.

So to be endorsed by your peers – never mind what lawyers and the authorities might say – was a good thing.

We are one of the founder members of the ECA and they decided that we should assume an associate membership and we are very grateful to them for that.

They have been supportive and we have many friends and to be invited out to Qatar to participate in discussions is remarkable.

The importance of this is the comparison to what happens in Scotland where we are not invited to any meetings, we can’t vote and we are not allowed to do anything.

However, the European clubs are saying come out to Qatar, we’ll pay your air fares, we’ll pay your hotel bills and we want you to be part of it all because we recognise Rangers are one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

We understand you can’t play in Europe at the moment but we still want you to be part of it all.

In Scotland, we are nobody and we are nothing. Tell me where the madness lies.

 

[Chew Chew]

Funny, I'm actually reading an interview from Charles Green right now, in which he discusses Rangers' recent invitation to participate in discussions with the ECA as associate members. (If we were a new club, we would certainly not be members of the ECA, not while we're still not in the top flight at any rate.)

Quite frankly I couldn't give a stuff about the ECA. They can invite whoever they want to their private members club.

Here is what Charles Green said last year when speaking about Dave King.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k0IkDTPQWU

"For someone who is a Rangers fan what he's suggesting is rather than get the CVA through that retains all the history we should vote against it and go down the newco route."

Green himself has admitted that the history of the team he is in charge of started in 2012. Simple as that really.

 

[Oswyntail]

...So Ferguson answers the questions he asked and gets attacked. I seem to remember in the past his refusal to answer questions and his long term boycott of BBC journalists also attracted criticism.

He just cannot win.

What would have been wrong with "I didn't see the match in question, and the player you are asking about does not play for my team, so I have no comment to make"?. Instead he comes up with an obviously prepared sound-bite - does anyone really use "laden" these days?

 

[balne-wonderer]

And now, by coincidence, Mad Uncle Hamish has given an interview in which he describes Suarez as "laden with controversy". Ferguson does this sort of thing ahead of matches he is anxious about, and generally speaks about those players he is anxious about. It should be a compliment, really, but it is designed to make the referees mind play on the apparent bad reputation. Of course this itself is a form of cheating, and the old pot calling the kettle black. I expect his players will see that as carte blanche to prod Suarez into retaliating, as frequently happens. And the commentators will chuckle about his clever "mind games".
And, of course it is possible to exaggerate something that isn't there. For instance, look at the Australian treatment of Muralitharan's bowling action which, IIRC, was proven time and again to be legal. Again IIRC, he was no-balled for "chucking" many more time playing against Australia, though.

remember ferdinands conduct in the famous handshake game. and then after the final whistle the man utd players made a point of celebrating in suarez face to try and taunt him into a reaction. he didnt react. then oddly, in the fa cup semi final. balotelli taunted ferdinand who flipped his lid and went mental. man utd later the branded balotelli a disgrace. the hypocrisy and double standards from that club are incredible.

ferguson didnt need to mention suarez but once again he's piled pressure onto the officials before the match with his comments. I expect his players will be in doubt of what their role will be on Sunday when they ard near suarez. whats the betting on a Liverpool playet getting sent off or a questionable man utd penalty.

 

[SS4]

remember ferdinands conduct in the famous handshake game. and then after the final whistle the man utd players made a point of celebrating in suarez face to try and taunt him into a reaction. he didnt react. then oddly, in the fa cup semi final. balotelli taunted ferdinand who flipped his lid and went mental. man utd later the branded balotelli a disgrace. the hypocrisy and double standards from that club are incredible.

ferguson didnt need to mention suarez but once again he's piled pressure onto the officials before the match with his comments. I expect his players will be in doubt of what their role will be on Sunday when they ard near suarez. whats the betting on a Liverpool playet getting sent off or a questionable man utd penalty.

That's what happens when you have powerful friends in the media. You can claim black is white and people will believe you especially in the quasi-religious nature of some football fans mixed with confirmation bias
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You know you're in a relegation scrap when refs hate you and never give a decision in your favour
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Ah Mark I hate the Midlands Halsey is the ref. This explains a lot

 

[Robinson]

Quite frankly I couldn't give a stuff about the ECA. They can invite whoever they want to their private members club.

Here is what Charles Green said last year when speaking about Dave King.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k0IkDTPQWU

"For someone who is a Rangers fan what he's suggesting is rather than get the CVA through that retains all the history we should vote against it and go down the newco route."

Green himself has admitted that the history of the team he is in charge of started in 2012. Simple as that really.

No he hasnt; the interview you're referring to was given BEFORE the CVA was rejected, and BEFORE all the assets, including the club's history and trophies, were transferred from the oldco to the newco. Had that last bit not happened, we would have a different story to tell; however, as it is, fortunately we have retained the club's history and are the same Rangers.

What Mr Green is saying NOW is rather more relevant to reality NOW than what he was saying more than 6 months ago - which might have been a very real possibility then, but is not where we find ourselves at the present time.

 

[SS4]

Aston Villa 0 - 1 Southampton feat Mark Halsey

F*cking ref cost us a point. Walters at Stoke takes the award for worst day though

 

[Butts]

Aston Villa 0 - 1 Southampton feat Mark Halsey

F*cking ref cost us a point. Walters at Stoke takes the award for worst day though

Be honest SS4 if you've got to rely on a disputed penalty for a point things are on the slide. With Reading winning a bad day for you

 

[SS4]

Be honest SS4 if you've got to rely on a disputed penalty for a point things are on the slide. With Reading winning a bad day for you

No argument there. Still, it's like rolling a loaded die when it comes to ref's decisions

 

[Butts]

No argument there. Still, it's like rolling a loaded die when it comes to ref's decisions

Tony Barton and Ron Saunders must be turning in their graves - this is what happens when Lerner gets rid of O'Neill and turns the tap off...

You go from Top 6 to relegation fodder in a couple of years....

Even "Deadly Doug" was not that bad !!!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Not as impressive as Ipswich Town however, who managed to finish in 5th place one season then 18th the next in the Premier League 2000-2002. Villa's cause hasn't been helped by selling Downing, Barry, even possibly Freidel without proper replacement.

 

[Butts]

Not as impressive as Ipswich Town however, who managed to finish in 5th place one season then 18th the next in the Premier League 2000-2002. Villa's cause hasn't been helped by selling Downing, Barry, even possibly Freidel without proper replacement.

Don't forget Milner and all the others as well - but the counter argument would be look how much money Liverpool have "wasted" trying to restablish themselves

Everton would perhaps be a better role model for Villa to emulate.

 

[richw]

Aston Villa 0 - 1 Southampton feat Mark Halsey

F*cking ref cost us a point.

Nigel Adkins said in his conference he was unsure why it was a penalty. When the manager who's team got the penalty, publically says he doesnt understand why its a penalty, you know its a bad decision

 

[GWRtom]

Good result of QPR today,

0-0 against Tottenham Hotspur
that leaves us with 4 points out of a possible 6 these last 2 games,

Get a decent goal scorer in and looks like we'll be staying up after all

C'mon u R'sss!!!

 

[Clip]

Tony Barton and Ron Saunders must be turning in their graves - this is what happens when Lerner gets rid of O'Neill and turns the tap off...

You go from Top 6 to relegation fodder in a couple of years....

Even "Deadly Doug" was not that bad !!!

Neither was McLeish at this stage of the season.


*chortle chortlke *

 

[richw]

For villa, McLeish is starting to look like he did well.

 

[Johnuk123]

Tony Barton and Ron Saunders must be turning in their graves

I doubt Ron Saunders is turning in his grave as he's still alive and very much kicking.

 

[richw]

I doubt Ron Saunders is turning in his grave as he's still alive and very much kicking.

Didnt Villa put something on in November to celebrate his 80th birthday?

 

[Johnuk123]

Didnt Villa put something on in November to celebrate his 80th birthday?

Yes they did, he had a great reception when he walked round the pitch.

 

[Ferret]

Tony Barton and Ron Saunders must be turning in their graves - this is what happens when Lerner gets rid of O'Neill and turns the tap off...

You go from Top 6 to relegation fodder in a couple of years....

Even "Deadly Doug" was not that bad !!!

Exactly what I've been saying for 2 years, yet I don't hear other Villa fans joining in. Why?! Lerner has screwed this club. Still, those that know me will tell you that I'd be far more distressed if it was Warwickshire CCC being run into the ground but I'm still annoyed by this sorry fiasco. Villa will be relegated whether it happens this season or next or the one after - maybe even all 3. Lerner out.