Future of Newhaven Marine and Harbour Stations?

[Islineclear3_1]

Has common sense prevailed and the points going to be reconnected to the signal box?

 

[trainmania100]

Has common sense prevailed and the points going to be reconnected to the signal box?

Don't think so, they were reballasting and tamping the points. Dont think there were any cable drums to wire it up etc saw the attached be loaded on to lorry

 

[trainmania100]

Not quite Newhaven but doesn't warrant a new thread

Lewes siding (next to platform 1) has been dug up and reballasted , with 66846/849 in platform 2.

 

[Mag_seven]

Lots of orange men at marine today

And to think its not even the marching season yet.

 

[rogercov]

Just thought I'd share a couple of my pics from 60 years ago!
The first is the 09:30 from Victoria at the boat train platform.
The second is Dieppe Maritime, later the same day.

 

[30907]

Just thought I'd share a couple of my pics from 60 years ago!
The first is the 09:30 from Victoria at the boat train platform.
The second is Dieppe Maritime, later the same day.
View attachment 64545 View attachment 64546

Thanks - a CEP must have been a rare sight on the Central Division when they were brand new in 59.

 

[rogercov]

Thanks - a CEP must have been a rare sight on the Central Division when they were brand new in 59.

Yes, it certainly looks shiny and new. I guess it was the first year that the boat trains were worked by multiple units. Prior to that, they were electric loco hauled.
I believe it had a buffet car, so I'm guessing there was a BEP somewhere in the formation.

 

[Caleb2010]

Yes, it certainly looks shiny and new. I guess it was the first year that the boat trains were worked by multiple units. Prior to that, they were electric loco hauled.
I believe it had a buffet car, so I'm guessing there was a BEP somewhere in the formation.

Not really, weren't the first batch of CEPs/BEPs used on the central division, before entry to service they were stored on one line of the Ardingly branch (as it is now) which was used as a single line through to Horstsd Keynes.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I'm a bit confused - if the old Marine station is being repurposed for ship-rail freight transfers, why is a new road bridge connection into the site needed? (A previous post says that there is already some road access since building work has been happening there.)
As for the arguments here against closing Marine - I do share the nostalgia over its ferry use, but if it's being used for other railway purposes, I'm not too upset - especially if one or other of the other two Newhaven stations now provides fairly direct passenger access into the current site of the passenger ferry terminal.
When I used to use that route from time to time, decades ago, it was in the days of co-ordinated and co-operative public undertakings running the trains and boats. (So a London-Paris ticket let you get any train from London to Dover, pretty much any boat across, and any train via any reasonable route on to Paris, from whichever French port you ended up at.) But there were special tickets if you booked specifically via Newhaven-Dieppe, and specifically on the night boat - that way it was ridiculously cheap (just a few pounds I seem to remember). You could leave London well into the evening, and be in Paris the next morning, albeit without much time to sleep since the journey was split into three. In that period, the boat-train link in Dieppe was as it was in Newhaven, ie, walk off the boat and straight onto the train in one integrated - albeit primitive - terminal. The Paris train then ran down some streets alongside the dock, inches from people's bedroom windows, until it linked up with the main line. Needless to say, that dockside line was closed years ago, and a through passenger at Dieppe now has to hoof it through the town to get a train.
[Query: Are there any threads specifically relating to proper train-ferry connections? The downgrading of them in recent years (especially given the need - if the planet is to survive, or at least if our species is to continue to thrive on it - for a massive switch from cars and planes to trains and boats) really bugs me. I obviously shouldn't go down that route in a thread specifically about Newhaven. Thanks.]

 

[swt_passenger]

The station itself isn’t being repurposed for anything, AFAICT it will still just be an unused platform, but it will now be on the route to a rail connected dredged aggregate import terminal. I believe the latter site will also includes a ready mix concrete plant, so will certainly require a route for local distribution, separate to any rail access.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The station itself isn’t being repurposed for anything, AFAICT it will still just be an unused platform, but it will now be on the route to a rail connected dredged aggregate import terminal. I believe the latter site will also includes a ready mix concrete plant, so will certainly require a route for local distribution, separate to any rail access.

Thanks for this clarification.

Concerning my query about a thread relating to train-ferry connections, I've since found the Boat Train thread in the History & Nostalgia section. However, it seems to me that reinstating good passenger connections between trains and ferries - even without dedicated Boat Trains given likely usage levels - should be something for the present and future, not just the past. Better integration is essential to encourage people to make more public-spirited choices when traveling. A few years ago I planned a brief visit to Calais, but was deterred when I found that the dedicated bus link from Dover Priory to the port had stopped, and there was no direct connection on any regular bus route either. And on the Calais side, there was no longer any bus link from the ferry terminal to anywhere in the town, let alone the station. Enquiries to both port authorities and both tourist offices elicited nothing more than a brush-off. So neither the ferry company nor Calais got my custom.

 

[daniel1234321]

Sorry if this has previously been discussed, but I've heard that the DfT is currently planning on formally closing NVM, is this true? Do you think that the service should become a passenger service now there is now canopy?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Sorry if this has previously been discussed, but I've heard that the DfT is currently planning on formally closing NVM, is this true? Do you think that the service should become a passenger service now there is now canopy?

Wasn't the Marine station closed to passengers around 2006?

See upthread, the site is to become a rail aggregate facility - so no passengers

 

[daniel1234321]

Wasn't the Marine station closed to passengers around 2006?

See upthread, the site is to become a rail aggregate facility - so no passengers

It never officially closed, its still legally open and "operational" if you ask the DfT.
Is the aggregate facility on the Run Round Loop or on the site of NVM Station?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

As mentioned upthread, new sidings have been laid but AFAIK, still disconnected from Marine signalbox and as trains are unable to reverse there, it is not "operational" as you put it. Trains have to reverse on the single line Seaford branch

 

[daniel1234321]

As mentioned upthread, new sidings have been laid but AFAIK, still disconnected from Marine signalbox and as trains are unable to reverse there, it is not "operational" as you put it. Trains have to reverse on the single line Seaford branch

"operational" is DfT's words from a FOI request, not mine.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if this has previously been discussed, but I've heard that the DfT is currently planning on formally closing NVM, is this true? Do you think that the service should become a passenger service now there is now canopy?

A passenger service would be pointless. The station as it was has been redundant ever since passenger ferry operations were relocated further up the harbour.

 

[daniel1234321]

A passenger service would be pointless. The station as it was has been redundant ever since passenger ferry operations were relocated further up the harbour.

yes, but are southern not required to operate one now the canopy has been removed? that was their original reason for no services.

Trains have to reverse on the single line Seaford branch

what about the early morning ECS that becomes a passenger train at harbour? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W28386/2019/07/08/advanced
and the reversing of a train that terminates at harbour, going back to lovers walk in the evening? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W28397/2019/07/08/advanced

 

[swt_passenger]

yes, but are southern not required to operate one now the canopy has been removed? that was their original reason for no services.

Well this thread’s been running getting on for four years now, and that’s never been satisfactorily explained...

 

[daniel1234321]

Well this thread’s been running getting on for four years now, and that’s never been satisfactorily explained...

my bad sorry

 

[Islineclear3_1]

what about the early morning ECS that becomes a passenger train at harbour? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W28386/2019/07/08/advanced
and the reversing of a train that terminates at harbour, going back to lovers walk in the evening? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W28397/2019/07/08/advanced

I wouldn't rely too much on RTT...and these schedules are in the future

Have a look at RTT this week, for example, you'll see the services reverse via NH40 signal on the Seaford branch

I think the interlocking is still in the box so who knows...the points could be connected up temporarily...but will it happen....?

 

[daniel1234321]

I wouldn't rely too much on RTT...and these schedules are in the future

Have a look at RTT this week, for example, you'll see the services reverse via NH40 signal on the Seaford branch

I think the interlocking is still in the box so who knows...the points could be connected up temporarily...but will it happen....?

Ah I see thanks, before the line was resignalled (so pre dec 2018 timetable change) both those services ran daily. I wonder why they don't just cancel that train in the timetable?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

As mentioned upthread, new sidings have been laid but AFAIK, still disconnected from Marine signalbox and as trains are unable to reverse there, it is not "operational" as you put it. Trains have to reverse on the single line Seaford branch

Legal it is. It has NOT been through the closure procedure so therefore is only classified as mothballed (legally open but operationally closed).

 

[jopsuk]

A passenger service would be pointless. The station as it was has been redundant ever since passenger ferry operations were relocated further up the harbour.

even Newhaven Harbour is no use for ferry foot passengers- the entrance is closest to Newhaven Town station and the DFDS website (who operate the crossings under the Transmanche brand) says to use Town. From pictures/videos they seem to actually use the berth alongside Marine, presumably bussing foot passengers all the way on (no sign of a foot linkspan?)

 

[Elwyn]

I am not familiar with the precise detail of how foot passengers board the ferry, but I was in Newhaven recently and it was clear that the check in for both vehicles and foot passengers is now close to the Town station. The Harbour station is no use to anyone wishing to travel to France. If you got off there you would just have to walk back to the town station to be able to enter the port area.

 

[swt_passenger]

even Newhaven Harbour is no use for ferry foot passengers- the entrance is closest to Newhaven Town station and the DFDS website (who operate the crossings under the Transmanche brand) says to use Town. From pictures/videos they seem to actually use the berth alongside Marine, presumably bussing foot passengers all the way on (no sign of a foot linkspan?)

That’s right. For cross channel ferries at many ports there’s a foot passenger terminal well away from the berth. (The appropriate station for the ferries being Newhaven Town was also discussed at length in the early days of this thread...)

 

[trainmania100]

yes, but are southern not required to operate one now the canopy has been removed? that was their original reason for no services.

what about the early morning ECS that becomes a passenger train at harbour? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W28386/2019/07/08/advanced
and the reversing of a train that terminates at harbour, going back to lovers walk in the evening? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W28397/2019/07/08/advanced

These services reverse at the signal just past the footbridge at Newhaven harbour near tide mills.

 

[daniel1234321]

These services reverse at the signal just past the footbridge at Newhaven harbour near tide mills.

Thanks, will they go back to reversing at marine one signalling is commissioned in October?

 

[yorksrob]

Not really, weren't the first batch of CEPs/BEPs used on the central division, before entry to service they were stored on one line of the Ardingly branch (as it is now) which was used as a single line through to Horstsd Keynes.

Yes, they were stored on the Ardingly branch before introduction. And I believe the prototype units (which were built with a more old fashioned interior than the Kent Coast ones) pretty much stayed on the Central into the 80's.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thanks, will they go back to reversing at marine one signalling is commissioned in October?

Depends on timetabling and need, I guess

Probably also dependent on the amount of freight flow to the new aggregate terminal