Future of Ticket Office Consultations launched

[islandmonkey]

I haven't formed an opinion on these closures as the last time I used a ticket office was to get a Cornwall Ranger in 2021, and then before that, it was to get my first railcard before they were online. Not so sure why/when I would use the ticket office again...hoping to get an All Line Rover soon, so maybe for that.

However, I found the propaganda, which would be an appropriate term for it, that was posted by the Rail Delivery Group yesterday to be exceptionally patronising and dishonest. This and this I'm referring to. There will be job losses. Why can't you just be honest with us? There's no positive spin to it. 'We're trying to save money by closing ticket offices as people don't use them enough.' -- pretty simple. Not the junk they put out.

 

[yorkie]

A rail industry body says otherwise. I posted a link indicating that but you replied implying I was an idiot for not believing what you said over the official source. I bet you also call your mobile phone a smart TV.

RDG seems to take the definition used by @Tazi Hupefi

Smart Tickets | National Rail

The gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Smart tickets are any kind of digital train ticket. You can load a smart ticket onto a smartcard, keep it on your mobile, or print it at home if you also prefer a physical copy to bring with you on your journey.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I haven't formed an opinion on these closures as the last time I used a ticket office was to get a Cornwall Ranger in 2021, and then before that, it was to get my first railcard before they were online. Not so sure why/when I would use the ticket office again...hoping to get an All Line Rover soon, so maybe for that.

However, I found the propaganda, which would be an appropriate term for it, that was posted by the Rail Delivery Group yesterday to be exceptionally patronising and dishonest. This and this I'm referring to. There will be job losses. Why can't you just be honest with us? There's no positive spin to it. 'We're trying to save money by closing ticket offices as people don't use them enough.' -- pretty simple. Not the junk they put out.

There is unlikely to be compulsory job losses or compulsory redundancies.

What will happen is that a lot of staff will actively seek out voluntary redundancy / severance, and most who aren't far away from retirement have been waiting for it and are glad this has finally happened.

Vacancies won't be backfilled, and there's a 3 figure number of ticket office vacancies at the moment.

Staff who choose to be redeployed to alternative roles will be fine.

Staff will reduce undoubtedly, but it won't be as noticeable as you might think, purely because it's already happened over a lengthy period of time through natural attrition.

And of course there's a money saving aspect to it, a substantial one, but if the taxpayer is to subsidize our railways, I for one would prefer it not to be spent on an outdated concept that so few elect to, or need, to use.

 

[AlterEgo]

I said "if enough" customers express a preference. There are clearly enough customers expressing a preference for ticket offices slated in this list.

Remember a few years ago when outsourcing contact centres abroad was all the rage for businesses ? A few years later, those same businesses were advertising the fact that they only used locally based call centres.

The customer preference comes first.

Surely you are not buying that press release guff! That is much more to do with other factors. It's now quite expensive to outsource labour to India thanks to high wage growth over the last ten years as the country unshackles itself from poverty. And in this country, wages have stagnated. Additionally, overseas call centres represent a significant reputational risk given that the countries they're located in do not have UK-style vetting for employees.

It's not really about customer preferences at all. You live in a country which is getting poorer because of low productivity; so much so, it's not even considered cost-effective to employ people from India instead of Glasgow or Belfast or Cardiff or Leeds.

The insistence on the sort of financial and productivity drag that many small ticket offices bring is an example of how Britain's choices continue to cause the productivity problem, which began with the financial crash and continued because of now endemic low investment in higher productivity methods of doing business.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many people in the UK are blind or visually impaired?

TVMs might not work for them, but telesales should, or an app with a screen reader?

 

[yorksrob]

Surely you are not buying that press release guff! That is much more to do with other factors. It's now quite expensive to outsource labour to India thanks to high wage growth over the last ten years as the country unshackles itself from poverty. And in this country, wages have stagnated. Additionally, overseas call centres represent a significant reputational risk given that the countries they're located in do not have UK-style vetting for employees.

It's not really about customer preferences at all. You live in a country which is getting poorer because of low productivity; so much so, it's not even considered cost-effective to employ people from India instead of Glasgow or Belfast or Cardiff or Leeds.

The insistence on the sort of financial and productivity drag that many small ticket offices bring is an example of how Britain's choices continue to cause the productivity problem, which began with the financial crash and continued because of now endemic low investment in higher productivity methods of doing business.

Surely you are not buying that press release guff! That is much more to do with other factors. It's now quite expensive to outsource labour to India thanks to high wage growth over the last ten years as the country unshackles itself from poverty. And in this country, wages have stagnated. Additionally, overseas call centres represent a significant reputational risk given that the countries they're located in do not have UK-style vetting for employees.

It's not really about customer preferences at all. You live in a country which is getting poorer because of low productivity; so much so, it's not even considered cost-effective to employ people from India instead of Glasgow or Belfast or Cardiff or Leeds.

The insistence on the sort of financial and productivity drag that many small ticket offices bring is an example of how Britain's choices continue to cause the productivity problem, which began with the financial crash and continued because of now endemic low investment in higher productivity methods of doing business.

There seems to be a clear customer preference for domestic contact centres, whether this coincides with companies immediate commercial concerns or not. Surely you can't be denying that ?

The captains of industry could invest in more productive manufacturing and begin to do something about the countries over-reliance on untrustworthy countries if it so chose. This would be more beneficial to the country than degrading customer services, but they don't.

 

[AlterEgo]

There seems to be a clear customer preference for domestic contact centres, whether this coincides with companies immediate commercial concerns or not. Surely you can't be denying that ?

I'm not denying that but rather telling you that it was almost immaterial to the decision to re-inhouse call centres, which were done principally for the reasons I gave.

Cadbury's brought the Wispa back but they had to generate their own hype around it. Nothing to do with the fact it was about cheapening their manufacturing costs and focusing on aerated chocolate in a time when sugar and cocoa prices were skyrocketing. Next you'll be telling me the TOCs' press releases about this consultation is entirely factual and good faith!

The captains of industry could invest in more productive manufacturing and begin to do something about the countries over-reliance on untrustworthy countries if it so chose.

No sorry, this thread isn't about manufacturing or untrustworthy countries, it's about inefficient business practices which have been baked into our culture. Bringing it back to the railways: Many but not all ticket offices should close, some further routes should be considered to move to One Person Operation or be converted to light rail, the ticketing system should be vastly simplified to negate the necessity for a specially trained person behind a counter to sell a ticket to a customer, there should be considerable overlap between bus and rail which both try to achieve the same objectives.

The changes proposed are too deep and too fast and do not guarantee staff presence which is why they are bad. It's not about a staffless railway but one which gets a lot more out of the headcount it has.

 

[NeilCr]

TVMs might not work for them, but telesales should, or an app with a screen reader?

Should!

Having seen my partner with a tablet screen reader and magnifying glass (large) they do help but it's still far more laborious then walking up to a ticket office and having a conversation.

And - as I said - while buying the ticket she had a focal point where she could check that the train was on time and what platform she had to go to.

Of course there are ways she can use but, for her, they are more time consuming and will - I think - act as a deterrent to her using the train by herself - even though she is pretty strong willed

There's a basic reassurance for those in her position of knowing exactly where to go to and seek information etc etc on the day at the station.

I'm not a railway enthusiast like the majority on here but it's a bit of a shame that we are dealing in percentages etc when there are real, live people in the minority (whatever that is) who will struggle

I do understand the financial constraints (although one or two on here are a bit woolly) and the drivers for change.- and irl it's not going to impact us much but this is public transport we are discussing and any barriers being put up for any group of passengers strike me as sad

 

[KGX]

I was wondering about the 88% number, so did some digging and reaching out.

First of all, that figure is out of date - a good number of months.

Second, it appears to include ScotRail, Merseyrail and Transport for Wales ticket sales within it, as well as including sales records that are essentially back office accountancy/not actually a real paper ticket sale, albeit it is technically a booking office transaction, just of no consequence to a passenger.

The net effect of this is that smart ticketing in Scotland is only just starting to emerge, and adversely skews the 88%. If you strip ScotRail out, and Merseyrail, and look at more recent sales data, so essentially just for England and Wales excluding Merseyside, ok it fluctuates by period, but it's already in the low-mid 90s consistently at least recently.

RDG may have missed an opportunity to provide even more convincing statistics, although I suspect this data was prepared some time ago based on the last complete financial (rail) year.

By the end of just the next railway financial year, I'd be confident in betting the house on 95% or above utilising smart ticketing IN THE AFFECTED AREAS OF ENGLAND.

Incidentally one of the stubborn areas is One Day Travelcards, which should disappear soon anyway, making the number pretty impressive.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for that.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not denying that but rather telling you that it was almost immaterial to the decision to re-inhouse call centres, which were done principally for the reasons I gave.

Cadbury's brought the Wispa back but they had to generate their own hype around it. Nothing to do with the fact it was about cheapening their manufacturing costs and focusing on aerated chocolate in a time when sugar and cocoa prices were skyrocketing. Next you'll be telling me the TOCs' press releases about this consultation is entirely factual and good faith!


No sorry, this thread isn't about manufacturing or untrustworthy countries, it's about inefficient business practices which have been baked into our culture. Bringing it back to the railways: Many but not all ticket offices should close, some further routes should be considered to move to One Person Operation or be converted to light rail, the ticketing system should be vastly simplified to negate the necessity for a specially trained person behind a counter to sell a ticket to a customer, there should be considerable overlap between bus and rail which both try to achieve the same objectives.

The changes proposed are too deep and too fast and do not guarantee staff presence which is why they are bad. It's not about a staffless railway but one which gets a lot more out of the headcount it has.

As I said, commercial benefits may sometimes coincide with customer preference, but in the case of contact centres, there is a clear customer preference for domestic ones. Something to be trumpeted by a savvy company.

Productivity is very much about manufacturing and untrustworthy countries (why don't we make our own manufacturing more productive so that we don't have to rely on untrustworthy countries) but you're correct, this aspect is off topic.

You are correct, these changes are a knee jerk reaction based around cuts.

We already have smaller stations where the person behind the ticket window is responsible for the care and environment of the station. These should be regarded as exemplars, not candidates for closure.

Many medium stations have busy booking offices that are well used by passengers. They should be cherished and developed as the railway's shop window.

 

[David Goddard]

So thinking about all of the products and services I have purchased from a station ticket office over the last decade, many of these are not available at a TVM, or in advance from a Train operator's website.

Some may be regarded as niche, but regardless of that we still need to have a means of purchasing them which is as convenient and cost neutral as it is at the moment.

Some of these are:
-Railcard for immediate travel
-Railcard to start on a specified date in the future (ie the date that I will next be travelling)
-All Line Rover starting in three days time
-Seat reservations (sometimes for specific seat preferences) on various services to be used with the above All Line Rover over the period of its validity
-Half price discounted tickets for my daughter who is a wheelchair user, and reservations for her on the trains we wish to use.
-Change of route excess as I need to take my journey via somewhere different
-Day Ranger for a part of the country not in the immediate area.
-Plus Bus add-ons to various tickets purchased.

 

[tomuk]

So thinking about all of the products and services I have purchased from a station ticket office over the last decade, many of these are not available at a TVM, or in advance from a Train operator's website.

Some may be regarded as niche, but regardless of that we still need to have a means of purchasing them which is as convenient and cost neutral as it is at the moment.

Some of these are:
-Railcard for immediate travel
-Railcard to start on a specified date in the future (ie the date that I will next be travelling)
-All Line Rover starting in three days time
-Seat reservations (sometimes for specific seat preferences) on various services to be used with the above All Line Rover over the period of its validity
-Half price discounted tickets for my daughter who is a wheelchair user, and reservations for her on the trains we wish to use.
-Change of route excess as I need to take my journey via somewhere different
-Day Ranger for a part of the country not in the immediate area.
-Plus Bus add-ons to various tickets purchased.

Plus bus can be bought as part of any online ticket purchase, LNER allows reservations to be booked on their website separately to any you may have made during your ticket purchase, You can by virtually all rangers and rovers from Northern TVMs. So solutions are there to some of your products.

 

[pt_mad]

Unfortunately though, this proposal has never been about improving customer service and is primarily about cuts.

Except the whole thing is being sold as an improvement to service. The media are being fed the same line again and again about simply moving people from behind the glass. Even this forum are now beginning to concede this is a dressed up package of cuts.

Except it is being remodelled to reflect the changing habits of the customers - to pretend as you do that we should just continue to fund a couple of guys sitting at a desk for an ever diminishing number of customers and queries is nuts.

We could literally go down the changing habits of customers route in every single industry until there are hardly any actual people left to do anything.
Changing habits does not mean nearly all the outstations need to be de-staffed of proper staffing as people keep saying.
It just portreys a picture of decline in this essential public service imo in the same as when some of the timetables still haven't returned to pre Covid levels or took ages to.

There is unlikely to be compulsory job losses or compulsory redundancies.

What will happen is that a lot of staff will actively seek out voluntary redundancy / severance, and most who aren't far away from retirement have been waiting for it and are glad this has finally happened.

Vacancies won't be backfilled, and there's a 3 figure number of ticket office vacancies at the moment.

Staff who choose to be redeployed to alternative roles will be fine.

Staff will reduce undoubtedly, but it won't be as noticeable as you might think, purely because it's already happened over a lengthy period of time through natural attrition.

And of course there's a money saving aspect to it, a substantial one, but if the taxpayer is to subsidize our railways, I for one would prefer it not to be spent on an outdated concept that so few elect to, or need, to use.

We have no idea with regards to how the staffing will be reduced yet do we? Voluntary severance was suggested at a time when RMT were asked to end the dispute in exchange for accepting the core of the measures but no agreement was reached and so how can we know?

Regarding redeployment for staff who want it. Where to? If only a handful of places are going to remain retail hub type places then are the staff to be redeployed into new roles and conditions in mobile teams out in a vehicle doing assistance and opening and closing toilets and waiting rooms all day?

Surely they could get agency type security staff to do jobs like that with the sole exception of deploying train ramps?

And yes the government still says new roles will be skilled compared to today.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

So thinking about all of the products and services I have purchased from a station ticket office over the last decade, many of these are not available at a TVM, or in advance from a Train operator's website.

Some may be regarded as niche, but regardless of that we still need to have a means of purchasing them which is as convenient and cost neutral as it is at the moment.

Some of these are:
-Railcard for immediate travel
-Railcard to start on a specified date in the future (ie the date that I will next be travelling)
-All Line Rover starting in three days time
-Seat reservations (sometimes for specific seat preferences) on various services to be used with the above All Line Rover over the period of its validity
-Half price discounted tickets for my daughter who is a wheelchair user, and reservations for her on the trains we wish to use.
-Change of route excess as I need to take my journey via somewhere different
-Day Ranger for a part of the country not in the immediate area.
-Plus Bus add-ons to various tickets purchased.

Why do you need the ability to buy a Railcard for immediate travel? You can do that on a mobile app and have it instantly downloaded. You can only buy 26-30 Railcards in that way. More regional and local Railcards are migrating to being available in this way.

Disabled Railcards have never been available at ticket offices, and yet it hasn't really ever been a contentious issue.

In any event, 3 year Railcards haven't been available at ticket offices, ever, and since the sale of Railcards expanded to most retailers, you rarely have to pay full price for one online, whereas they are never discounted at a ticket office.

The CON34/50 discounts for wheelchair users using certain ticket types are not difficult to resolve at all and can be easily switched on for TVMs and online sales - the reason they haven't been traditionally is because it normally also requires assistance to be booked or provided. Telesales would still be able to assist with both. The online process should, however, be improved to allow a ticket to be purchased along with selecting wheelchair or whatever other special assistance is required in one place.

Unconnected to ticket office closures, I strongly suspect rangers and rover tickets are not going to be around forevermore. Their usage is low and niche, and adds an extra layer of complexity to the ticketing system. Hopefully they'll have a shot at making them digital first and see how that goes. The digital InterRail pass has been reasonably successful, where the (few!) TOCs have actually set their gates up with the relevant key to read them, so it is possible.

 

[Mabs]

I will take the Redundancy option if there is any at SWR.

 

[Sentinel]

To be fair - it's pretty easy to work through.

Avanti only operate in a limited number of generally large stations. They've decided the best model is to have staff near the gateline or TVMs with, presumably, some form of device to enable ticket sales. That's fine.

Whereas Northern or WMR who operate smaller stations which may not have as much space and equally may have security concerns where the handling of cash is concerned, have elected to keep a limited number of ticket offices open.

The mistake people are making, particularly on the Avanti ones, is saying 'oh it's a big station, surely it should keep its ticket office' - yet the reality is those ticket offices are probably used less than those at somewhere like Salford Crescent or Nuneaton.

Hmm, you’ve not been to Macclesfield then with it’s small and overcrowded “concourse” at the morning or evening peaks…

 

[yorksrob]

Except the whole thing is being sold as an improvement to service. The media are being fed the same line again and again about simply moving people from behind the glass. Even this forum are now beginning to concede this is a dressed up package of cuts.

And the media fall for it every time !

 

[tomuk]

Unconnected to ticket office closures, I strongly suspect rangers and rover tickets are not going to be around forevermore. Their usage is low and niche, and adds an extra layer of complexity to the ticketing system. Hopefully they'll have a shot at making them digital first and see how that goes. The digital InterRail pass has been reasonably successful, where the (few!) TOCs have actually set their gates up with the relevant key to read them, so it is possible.

If you look at the detailed ticket sales data that GWR have provided within their proposals then sales of rangers and rovers, even at Cornish stations where they would be popular, are negligible. For example Redruth with a 7am-7pm and Sunday opening ticket office sold 9 all year.

 

[JamieL]

I can't see Scotrail included in the TOC list? Have they published their proposals?

 

[willgreen]

Hardly - to get to 24% you assume that the stations without ticket offices today would sell the same number of tickets as those with ticket offices. Do you not think that those without today are the lesser used stations?

Fair point - I suppose the number is somewhat north of 12% though.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I can't see Scotrail included in the TOC list? Have they published their proposals?

They have some reductions in opening hours and days unconnected to these proposals which are for England only.

 

[tomuk]

I can't see Scotrail included in the TOC list? Have they published their proposals?

This is purely a DfT ie England TOCs only consultation. Scotrail already carried out a cosultation back at the end of 2021 to reduce hours and close some ticket offices but nowhere has comprehensive as the current prposals the results are here

ScotRail welcomes ticket office feedback from public

ScotRail is welcoming more than 1,500 responses from the public to the consultation by Transport Focus on changes proposed to the opening hours at 120 ticket offices across Scotland. In response to the feedback, the train operator has now put forward changes to its proposals.

www.scotrail.co.uk

 

[JD2168]

I can’t see any benefits of closing ticket offices, the impact would be severe on elderly & disabled/blind passengers who would struggle with machines. Thankfully the one I use the most at Sheffield will remain & was being well used with queuing passengers waiting to use it this morning. There was almost no one at the Vending Machines alongside. The vending machines are also very prone to vandalism, quite often I have seen them out of use due to this & due to faults as well.

 

[Worldwide]

There is unlikely to be compulsory job losses or compulsory redundancies.

What will happen is that a lot of staff will actively seek out voluntary redundancy / severance, and most who aren't far away from retirement have been waiting for it and are glad this has finally happened.

Vacancies won't be backfilled, and there's a 3 figure number of ticket office vacancies at the moment.

Staff who choose to be redeployed to alternative roles will be fine.

Staff will reduce undoubtedly, but it won't be as noticeable as you might think, purely because it's already happened over a lengthy period of time through natural attrition.

And of course there's a money saving aspect to it, a substantial one, but if the taxpayer is to subsidize our railways, I for one would prefer it not to be spent on an outdated concept that so few elect to, or need, to use.

My OH works in an Avanti ticket office they should have 36 staff but they only have 16 a lot of shifts are covered by overtime

 

[island]

So thinking about all of the products and services I have purchased from a station ticket office over the last decade, many of these are not available at a TVM, or in advance from a Train operator's website.

Some may be regarded as niche, but regardless of that we still need to have a means of purchasing them which is as convenient and cost neutral as it is at the moment.

Some of these are:
-Railcard for immediate travel

Can be bought online and fulfilled on the various Railcard apps

-Railcard to start on a specified date in the future (ie the date that I will next be travelling)

Just buy it the day you want it, as above

-Seat reservations (sometimes for specific seat preferences) on various services to be used with the above All Line Rover over the period of its validity

Can be requested online for some TOCs as well as by SMS or phone

-Change of route excess as I need to take my journey via somewhere different

Can be bought on board the train from the guard

-Day Ranger for a part of the country not in the immediate area.

These are to be made available from TVMs; they are already in some areas

-Plus Bus add-ons to various tickets purchased.

Can be added on at time of purchase from most Ticket selling websites

 

[northwichcat]

We have no idea with regards to how the staffing will be reduced yet do we?

Looking at Northern's plan 5 x full time ticket clerk jobs to cover ticket offices at Northwich, Knutsford and Hale would get replaced by 6 weekly shifts. So probably one full time person to cover the three stations for 5 days and then a roaming person covering multiple routes to cover the 6th shift.

Hartford and Winsford will also lose 4 full time roles and probably won't even get one full shift for a roaming person.

 

[yorkie]

"Some" customer preference is typically for online purchase. Clearly not all, otherwise there would be no demand for ticket offices.

Indeed a minority do prefer ticket offices, but it is very much a minority these days.

I might be lucky, but I have generally had very positive experiences with booking hall staff and will make the case to see them retained where practicable, certainly in the larger stations.

There is also the case in smaller stations where the booking officer does the general wellbeing/caretaking of the station. In these cases, their withdrawal would only produce a deterioration in the travelling environment.

You are clearly are very lucky; ask for anything that isn't simple and you're more likely to get a response along these lines:

What should I have done re: super off peak unable to be used

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Such experiences are totally typical:

Incorrect info from ticket office – What if??

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Why do ticket office know less ticketing rules than non-industry Railforum members?

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Luton ticket office claim EMR Advances Luton–London can only sold online—does this break impartiality rules?

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Ticket Office refusal - Standard Advance to 1st Advance *now sorted*

Good evening all, Once or twice a year, I have had no problem at Durham ticket office getting an Advance Standard ticket upgraded to 1st Class Advance (no change to journey time / train used / stations). I was just charged the difference in price between the Standard advance fare paid and what...

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Ticket office at Victoria refuses to sell me a ticket

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East Kilbride ticket office — ScotRail only?

I just got back from East Kilbride station, trying to excess a TPE Advance to change the time. Having got to the front of the queue, we got told that they could only deal with ScotRail tickets and would have to go to Glasgow Central to deal with it. As far as I was aware, Merseyrail were the...

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London Victoria ticket office reluctant to sell Boundary Zone tickets

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When the ticket office just can't find the fare

When trying to buy a Euston to Sheffield "route LM&XC" ticket for travel on Sunday, which takes 4 hours, I have experienced the following: No website can sell it due to Sunday journey time being a fair bit longer than via Doncaster Virgin ticket machines at Euston don't show it Main ticket...

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Ticket office staff attitudes and tickets from other destinations

Following an "interesting" incident with a member of ticket office staff at Stroud today, I was wondering whether it is common or actually a rule for ticket office staff to demand to see all of your tickets from the station that the ticket office is situated at, to the point at which the ticket...

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Incompetent ticket office staff at the London Bridge Southeastern run ticket office.

So i travelled from Betchworth to London today and thought that i would share my experience of the incompetent Southeastern ticket office staff at London Bridge. On my first train i boarded at Betchworth the Guard had a broken Avantix machine (which seems quite common) so i couldn't buy a...

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New levels of ticket office incompetence

As a football fan, on most alternate Fridays, I wander down to the ticket office at a small station A and buy a series of day return tickets to get me to whatever ground my shower happen to be playing at the next day. And I usually have a laugh with the gentleman behind the counter. This...

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St Pancras ticket office won't sell CIV tickets

After a change of plans needed to buy a CIV ticket for travel tomorrow AM, so decided to purchase it from the National Rail ticket office at St Pancras. I was quite surprised to find that the lady behind the counter refused to sell it to me! She said "I am not allowed to sell CIV tickets...

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Unable to book a Southern + London Midland Only Advance at ticket office

I had great problems booking an Advance ticket today. Liverpool Lime Street to Brighton on the 9.34pm on 07 April 2015 Departs Arrives By Reservations 09:34 - Liverpool Lime Street 11:18 - Birmingham New Street Train (LONDON MIDLAND) Reserved - no seat allocated. 11:33 - Birmingham New...

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Ticket office staff refusing to sell tickets originating at different station?

Apologies if this has already been dicsussed in other threads (I'm sure it has), but I couldn't find any using the search function. Here are the journeys I wanted to make: Saturday: Guildford to Ryde Sunday: Ryde to Guidford Monday: Guildford to Denmark Hill. My intention was to...

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Sold Incorrect Fare at Ticket Office?

Hello, I recently (15/12) travelled from London Bridge to Brighton. I checked the fare online (www.nationalrail.co.uk) and found that if I bought a return ticket restricted to First Capital Connect's trains ("FCC Only") the fare would be £10, or £6.60 after my Gold Card discount. When I...

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Southeastern fail at Crayford ticket office

Asked this morning what the cheapest tickets for a family of 4 to Margate today using either F&F or kids for a quid. Group is 1 adult, 2 kids and a 16 year old who was 15 when the railcard was bought. I was told in no uncertain terms that the 16 year old had to pay adult rate. No time to...

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Coventry Ticket Office refusing to sell valid tickets

I have had reports from my contacts at the local RUGs that Coventry Ticket Office are refusing to sell tickets that they should, and also are not always offering the cheapest option to passengers (often only Virgin Tickets are offered without giving LM options). I have had quite a few problem...

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Ticket office open but advance tickets not available

I kind of thought that if a ticket office was open, it is possible to buy a full range of tickets But I tried to buy a ticket in the evening for a journey the following week but I was told it is not possible to buy advance tickets over the counter in the evening Is this correct?

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Sevenoaks ticket office refused to sell ticket

Hi, following in from my previous post http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40663 I returned to Sevenoaks this morning but unfortunately still had a problem trying to buy tickets and this time was refused the sale. As I had excellent advice on here before I'm hoping somebody could...

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Refused a valid ticket by booking office staff!

Earlier this morning, I went down to my local station (Hemel Hempstead - managed by London Midland) to buy a ticket from Hemel Hempstead to Hanborough, returning on Friday. This ticket, an off-peak return, normally costs £24.90 with my Y-P Railcard. Off-peak tickets to Hanborough from Hemel...

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Staff at booking office can never find my ticket..

I usually buy my tickets online at eastcoast.co.uk, and one of the journeys I make regularly is Stafford > Cambridge, by doing it on eastcoast I can tick the "CrossCountry trains only" option and I get the the fare for the cheapest I've been able to find it. However, when I've asked for...

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I'm very glad I rarely longer have to argue with ticket offices, as nearly all tickets can be bought online these days; not having a ticket office in such circumstances is actually a bonus as it means the staff on board the train can't try to penalise you.

The idea that ticket offices are good for anything other than really simple sales is really not at all compatible with the experiences I've had, nor of many other people I know!

Most of the attraction of old fashioned ticket offices, with staff behind counters who don't really understand ticketing matters, seems to be a fondness for a bygone age, rather than for actual practical reasons.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed a minority do prefer ticket offices, but it is very much a minority these days.

You are clearly are very lucky; ask for anything that isn't simple and you're more likely to get a response along these lines:

What should I have done re: super off peak unable to be used

So today I bought a super off peak return from Chelmsford to London, travelling out at 12 and returning after 8pm. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I ended up coming back much earlier than planned, at 16:15, when super off peak is not valid. What were my options? I asked at the GA ticket...

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Such experiences are totally typical.

I don't know. Sometimes I talk through what I need with the ticket office, and it is an enlightening experience for both of us !

I have certainly had very positive experiences from my local ticket office over the last twenty years and will be making it known to Transport Focus.

 

[David Goddard]

Why do you need the ability to buy a Railcard for immediate travel? You can do that on a mobile app and have it instantly downloaded. You can only buy 26-30 Railcards in that way. More regional and local Railcards are migrating to being available in this way.

Disabled Railcards have never been available at ticket offices, and yet it hasn't really ever been a contentious issue.

In any event, 3 year Railcards haven't been available at ticket offices, ever, and since the sale of Railcards expanded to most retailers, you rarely have to pay full price for one online, whereas they are never discounted at a ticket office.

I buy my railcards when I first need to travel with them, so yes I do need the ability to buy for immediate travel.
You assume that I have a smartphone, but then go on to say that only one type of Railcard (which is not one of those that I buy, I have three) can be bought in that way in any case.
Never mentioned three year railcards.

The CON34/50 discounts for wheelchair users using certain ticket types are not difficult to resolve at all and can be easily switched on for TVMs and online sales - the reason they haven't been traditionally is because it normally also requires assistance to be booked or provided. Telesales would still be able to assist with both. The online process should, however, be improved to allow a ticket to be purchased along with selecting wheelchair or whatever other special assistance is required in one place.

Or is it another means of stopping those who are not entitled to them from buying them? Probably a potential for fraud.
Sometimes we don't decide where we are going until breakfast, then go straight out. Are we expected to hang on the phone to a telesales line for ages to buy such tickets (in advance), then queue again at the TVM when we get to the station?
Yes agree that there are improvements needed so that these can be all issued together, but if, like Rovers and Rangers,

Their usage is low and niche, and adds an extra layer of complexity to the ticketing system.

then we stand little chance of improvements in this.

 

[urbophile]

Well usually the cry is 'oh it's all because we followed America's example' when the reality is these things have changed all across Europe.

Personal service over the counter may be in *your* living memory, but it certainly isn't mine - and I grew up in the 1970s and 80s - the weekly shopping was done in Sainsburys / Tescos / Co-op / Fine Fare - all were self service supermarkets.

The human touch *isn't* important - if it were then 90% of tickets would be bought from the ticket office and 10% from TVMs or online - when in fact the proportions are the other way around, so for the overwhelming majority, it isn't important.

Perhaps all of Europe is (at varying speeds) following America's bad example in many things especially transport policy.

Yes you are considerably younger than me, but that's not the point. My point is that while supermarkets might be inevitable, and in many ways preferable, a supermarket with no human staff present would be not just an eerie experience but a definitely inferior and unhelpful one.

In the case of the railways the human touch is vital for several reasons. For a start, while almost everyone uses a supermarket frequently, many, many people use trains only rarely. Many of these will be reluctant to do so again if they find the system difficult.

I'm used to online transactions and using a computer generally, but I have only today given up trying to purchase a ticket online from the dreaded Transpennine (going through the National Rail app only redirects me to TPE so it's no easier). Even when it goes smoothly it is a complicated business, and at more than one attempt when I had got as far as the 'pay now' button the whole thing froze. I've concluded it will be much easier to go to the station and make a simple request over the counter. While it's still possible!

TVMs are notoriously unreliable and many stations have only one. If it breaks down, or as often happens is unusable for other reasons, for example the screen being unreadable in bright sunshine, what are we suppose to do in the absence of staff?