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Good old First Northampton

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robertclark125

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Once again though, did the rot not start to set in when GRT took over. They didn't invest in new buses until 1996, which were 3 x Volvo B10Ls, and they moved the newer 1984 Leyland Olympians to SMT in Edinburgh, which then left Northampton with the Citybuses (which couldn't be moved at the time due to an agreement in the sale contract) and Bristol VRTs.
 
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A0wen

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Once again though, did the rot not start to set in when GRT took over. They didn't invest in new buses until 1996, which were 3 x Volvo B10Ls, and they moved the newer 1984 Leyland Olympians to SMT in Edinburgh, which then left Northampton with the Citybuses (which couldn't be moved at the time due to an agreement in the sale contract) and Bristol VRTs.

I think it's incidental - if it had still been council owned, chances are it would have started making a loss at some point as costs escalated and pressures came to bear on local government finances.

I don't think you can try and argue that "the rot started" when some vehicles were transferred out.
 

DunsBus

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Once again though, did the rot not start to set in when GRT took over. They didn't invest in new buses until 1996, which were 3 x Volvo B10Ls, and they moved the newer 1984 Leyland Olympians to SMT in Edinburgh, which then left Northampton with the Citybuses (which couldn't be moved at the time due to an agreement in the sale contract) and Bristol VRTs.

IIRC the 1984 Olympian/East Lancs went to Grampian in Aberdeen soon after the GRT takeover. They were only there for a few months before being moved south to SMT; my understanding is that they weren't very popular during their brief stint in Aberdeen.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I think it's incidental - if it had still been council owned, chances are it would have started making a loss at some point as costs escalated and pressures came to bear on local government finances.

I don't think you can try and argue that "the rot started" when some vehicles were transferred out.

Agree with most of your points. The realities are that the usual arguments on economies of scale aren't really appropriate. Most back office functions can and were done elsewhere, as you say. However, you will always have to have a level of fixed depot overhead, especially in relation to a big old place like St James.

The downward spiral wasn't caused or started by the transfer of 6 x 10 yr old Olympians northbound! The issues really surround the internal rates of return/profit that First demanded. A route may have been profitable but marginal, yet didn't hit that hurdle rate. Hence, you had withdrawals which meant spreading those fixed elements (e.g. the depot) over a smaller number of routes.

Also, Stagecoach were pretty smart in upping frequencies on inter-urban routes running into Northampton so this began to undermine First's local routes. There was also the fact that they didn't keep on top of fleet replacement so older kit was drafted in or had to "make do". That affected reliability and so affected the patronage and viability of some routes.

What I would say is that there are plenty of depots of 60 or so vehicles that run quite happily with different businesses. Fact is that Stagecoach had a good strategy and First made some really bad decisions. Where size is important (:oops:) is that some businesses are big enough to make those mistakes and survive. For First in Northampton, it wasn't.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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overthewater

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It seems Stageocoach has

* 4 Darts from Oxford
* 5 Darts from Merseyside Darts now here in Northampton 34473-77.

Does anyone know how many ALX300 have been on loan?
 

MK Tom

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No idea but there's an Enviro 400 on loan from Yorkshire and a bunch of Gold enviro 400s have arrived for the X46/47 which will displace existing E400s onto the 16/17 to free up vehicles to replace the Northern Counties Olympians that have come in from every which way to cover the ex-First routes.

Last day tomorrow. I don't expect to be the only one up there recording it!

EDIT - First have already removed Northampton from their website. http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/ - they have a link on their twitter feed about tomorrow being the last day which will send you to a page about a road closure in Worcester. One more little balls-up just as a send-off!
 
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Tomonthetrain

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Today was the last day of First Northampton and Omnibuses blog discusses the topic

http://omnibuses.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/now-you-see-it-now-you-dont.html

Today is the last day of operations at First Northampton. First had already removed evidence from its website of its Northampton operation earlier this week. All references to Northampton news had also disappeared. Who says some websites are not up to date?

So endeth an era that began with corporation transport. The GRT Group bought it 20 years ago this year and it then fell within the portfolio of First Bus and then First Group. There appears a timeline from 1880 on this post.
(Continued on link...)
 

MK Tom

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Services were running a bit lax towards the end. I was on one route 2 working that overtook the one in front of it. I caught the overtaken one back from Rectory Farm and it skipped out all of Blackthorn and Thorplands! Went straight along Talavera Way right down to the A43 roundabout. See picture for proof.

The 4A still had fairly decent loadings but nobody at all was using the 2 when I used it. I left town at 16:50; things seemed to be winding down as departures were getting less frequent. I don't know when the proverbial towel was finally thrown in though.

On a more positive note, the heritage running day was pretty amazing, and that continues tomorrow.
 

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overthewater

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I bet the 2 will pick up now people can use Stagecoach weekly tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Stagecoach has not gotten started to get newer E300 for Warwickshire operations with the newer fleet going to Northampton. The darts which come from "West" are being disposal?
 

34D

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Is anyone able to say what vehicles (types/age) are still on site at Northampton, and make a guess whether they are for transfer or for scrap?
 

Rich McLean

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If they are Low Floor, they will be transferred in order to replace Step Darts elsewhere (Bath for example)
 

Rich McLean

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Not necessarily as the oldest were R reg and similar examples were dead behind the depot for component recovery as were a number of low floor Darts.

Fair enough, but I don't really see the logic in leaving step darts running around, while Low Floor (albeit old) are being scrapped. I could understand this however if they are beyond repair.
 

overthewater

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Fair enough, but I don't really see the logic in leaving step darts running around, while Low Floor (albeit old) are being scrapped. I could understand this however if they are beyond repair.

FSE are scraping same types of buses from the same year. The thing is the buses are just knackered.
 

34D

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Fair enough, but I don't really see the logic in leaving step darts running around, while Low Floor (albeit old) are being scrapped. I could understand this however if they are beyond repair.

It's basically the chassis (or specifically, the work that needed to be done (at build stage) to accommodate the low floor.

This is why the step entrance ones keep going
 

swifty

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If they are Low Floor, they will be transferred in order to replace Step Darts elsewhere (Bath for example)

These are due to replaced by Christmas anyway, with much newer stock than would be available from Northampton.
 

mbonwick

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Stagecoach has not gotten started to get newer E300 for Warwickshire operations with the newer fleet going to Northampton. The darts which come from "West" are being disposal?

There are 15 E200s currently on delivery to Leamington for X15/17. Some of the cascaded darts will probably end up at Northampton for a few months to replace loan ins.
The SPDs loaned from West have been returned, as have the 9.4ms from East which are required for contract wins at Peterborough.

The 35 or 37 (depends who you believe - minimum 35 is confirmed) E200s for Northampton will start deliveries in December and should coincide with a major network rewrite.
 

overthewater

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There are 15 E200s currently on delivery to Leamington for X15/17. Some of the cascaded darts will probably end up at Northampton for a few months to replace loan ins.
The SPDs loaned from West have been returned, as have the 9.4ms from East which are required for contract wins at Peterborough.

The 35 or 37 (depends who you believe - minimum 35 is confirmed) E200s for Northampton will start deliveries in December and should coincide with a major network rewrite.

Wooo, a major network review? I hope there keep the fast links for passengers. I get the feeling it will be first week in January for the relaunch.

thanks for the heads up
 

MK Tom

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I imagine that network review might see off the 2. I was surprised Stagecoach even took it on; it's almost entirely duplicated by their other routes and really doesn't service any specific market on its own.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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These are due to replaced by Christmas anyway, with much newer stock than would be available from Northampton.

Exactamundo! No point in dragging knackered and non standard Scanias down to Bath. Especially as a) new vehicles will arrive for Hengrove to release e200s to Bath and b) the issue for First is to meet DDA so moving non-DDA stuff down from Northampton is neither here nor there :|
 

overthewater

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I imagine that network review might see off the 2. I was surprised Stagecoach even took it on; it's almost entirely duplicated by their other routes and really doesn't service any specific market on its own.

I would not write off the no2 just yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://sjra.info/insidestamesbusgarage.html

Alot of pic from inside the depot, Its really has been left to rot...
 

overthewater

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So how is everything going down in Northampton? Any news on the supposedly major network review.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I'm starting to think we made a bit of an assumption that Luton moving on the 22nd would mean the depot closed that day. I swung by yesterday and look what I found... http://www.flickr.com/photos/50337784@N04/10336917206/

Depends what you mean by closed. To most, it's no longer being used for operations, and that's the case.

Many a depot is used for storage of redundant kit for a period, and for a lot longer than a month!
 
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