Govia get Thameslink Franchise

[KneeOn]

So if employees and management of Govia have such fantastic first hand experience of their service - why are so many aspects of their service still crap?

The impression I get as a Govia customer is that they don't care.

My latest interaction with Southern runs along the lines of "there's an error XX on your website with regard to ticket YY". More than a week goes by - then they 'phone me "we can't find what you're talking about on our website".. I politely tell them where it is and re-confirm why it's wrong, whilst thinking to myself "even if you couldn't find the "Tickets" page I referred to on your own website, surely you can use Google to search your own website?".

So they say they'll pass it onto their web team. Nothing's happened and probably never will.

The error doesn't affect me but it's wrong for everyone else who looks at it - but how much effort do I put into trying to get them to fix it? As usual with virtually all interactions with their customer services department, one rapidly loses the will to live....

Are you aware of how business's and expenditure works? Or the range of logistical challenges it takes to fix such a complicated network?

Not much excuse for the smaller things but a large amount of the problems stem from difficult to fix issues.

EDIT: To keep things on topic - i think Govia haven't done an awful awful job, but during major disruption out of London, until very recently they were the last people to be on the ground helping passsengers, especially on the BML. They're the last to queue bust at busy stations but the first to go in to revenue mode. During major distruption recently, their twitter team sign off bang on time. Which other TOC's do not do if it's serious disruption. That said, Southern are far from the worst operator and actually do a decent job.

 

[talldave]

Are you aware of how business's and expenditure works? Or the range of logistical challenges it takes to fix such a complicated network?

Not much excuse for the smaller things but a large amount of the problems stem from difficult to fix issues.

EDIT: To keep things on topic - i think Govia haven't done an awful awful job, but during major disruption out of London, until very recently they were the last people to be on the ground helping passsengers, especially on the BML. They're the last to queue bust at busy stations but the first to go in to revenue mode. During major distruption recently, their twitter team sign off bang on time. Which other TOC's do not do if it's serious disruption. That said, Southern are far from the worst operator and actually do a decent job.

Of course I understand how businesses work! With Southern, I only tend to report small things - often giving them the solution as well. Errors on webpages are simple to fix - the problem is that their customer services people can't grasp a simple issue, and whoever they pass it on to doesn't seem to have the authority to fix it. Hence, it takes them 5 months to make a trivial change to a webpage, that in man hours takes less than an hour to implement & test (and that example was an error that prevented people buying a particular Gatwick Express ticket, so you might have thought it to be moderately important).

I don't have an issue with Southern's trains/drivers/guards, but agree with you that the way they deal with disruption leaves a lot to be desired. My biggest gripe is their inability to understand their own Off-Peak ticket rules; thus all the staff at Gatwick are "mis-trained". Quote from one Southern employee at Gatwick to me:"you know more about the ticket than we do - you should come and work for us" - well when the barriers won't let me through to catch my train I have to know my stuff [and its thanks to the experts on this forum that I'm better informed nowadays on my ticketing rights!].

 

[Aictos]

Yes, but you can't go from one end of the UK to the other on a Govia staff pass! First TOC benefits are very generous and even if you use up your boxes, you can use First My Rewards to buy day rovers for £6, which is a bargain. Given a box is worth more than £6, it's often more economic to just buy a rover!

You can't do that on a First staff pass either! If you work for a sister First TOC you still need to pay out to use the Scottish sleepers unlike the Western sleepers and besides I think you misunderstood my point without reading though the lines carefully

I was trying to say that for Govia, their approach of having just one pass is much more economical then having separate boxes and staff passes like other groups do, in short just to save any confusion on your behalf such a pass would only be valid on sister companies operated by Govia I wasn't saying the DfT should introduce one to use everywhere.

 

[Fincra5]

You can't do that on a First staff pass either! If you work for a sister First TOC you still need to pay out to use the Scottish sleepers unlike the Western sleepers and besides I think you misunderstood my point without reading though the lines carefully

I was trying to say that for Govia, their approach of having just one pass is much more economical then having separate boxes and staff passes like other groups do, in short just to save any confusion on your behalf such a pass would only be valid on sister companies operated by Govia I wasn't saying the DfT should introduce one to use everywhere.

Ah but Boxes can be used on any route or any TOC unlike a staff pass. So having a Govia Key would be no good for Personal with Priv Boxes or 1st/STD General passes...

 

[LBSCR Times]

Ah but Boxes can be used on any route or any TOC unlike a staff pass. So having a Govia Key would be no good for Personal with Priv Boxes or 1st/STD General passes...

One of the advantages of working for First was the ability to get a weekly scratch card on First Bus, in one of their areas of operation, for £6.
And you could get 5 every 3 months!
Ideal for being on holiday in some areas.

 

[Fred26]

You can't do that on a First staff pass either!

Yes you can. First TOCs run the length of the country. Penzance to Wick completely free.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ah but Boxes can be used on any route or any TOC unlike a staff pass. So having a Govia Key would be no good for Personal with Priv Boxes or 1st/STD General passes...

You misundertand. First issue boxes to their staff which are soley for use on First TOCs. They cannot be used elsewhere.

 

[physics34]

we're going off topic again

 

[hedpe]

Yes you can. First TOCs run the length of the country. Penzance to Wick completely free.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You misundertand. First issue boxes to their staff which are soley for use on First TOCs. They cannot be used elsewhere.

Luckily if the rumor is true, we will get PRIV discount on off-peak fares come september so it's not all bad. Now wondering if the Govia pass will permit limited travel on Virgin services out of Euston.

 

[Aictos]

All that aside, I hope they roll out the Key to Stevenage via Hertford and Welwyn Garden City for Inner Services first

 

[RJ]

You can't do that on a First staff pass either! If you work for a sister First TOC you still need to pay out to use the Scottish sleepers unlike the Western sleepers and besides I think you misunderstood my point without reading though the lines carefully

I was trying to say that for Govia, their approach of having just one pass is much more economical then having separate boxes and staff passes like other groups do, in short just to save any confusion on your behalf such a pass would only be valid on sister companies operated by Govia I wasn't saying the DfT should introduce one to use everywhere.

The point I was making was that separate boxes are required to regulate the usage of free travel on First services. Govia doesn't impose any such restriction on usage.

Besides the TOC staff pass doubles as a barrier ticket - I don't think it's a good idea to have boxes on a period ticket that is used to get through barriers.

 

[AM9]

we're going off topic again

I agree, this thread seems to have become a discussion about staff conditions rather than what Govia taking the TSGN franchise will mean across the board.

Back on topic, I think that any significant drop in service on the Thameslink line(s) will be met with considerable customer, media and MP reaction as first have experienced. First have improved a lot recently since some disastrous communication failures, (which may have played a part in their failure to win the franchise).

 

[Class377]

I live on the TL side of the route, and I expect nothing to change except for the colour of the train and the uniform the staff will wear.

With such frequent service anyway, there's not a huge amount that can be improved surely?

 

[Stats]

Back on topic, I think that any significant drop in service on the Thameslink line(s) will be met with considerable customer, media and MP reaction as first have experienced. First have improved a lot recently since some disastrous communication failures, (which may have played a part in their failure to win the franchise).

Talking of communicating with customers I hope that Govia don't continue Southern's policy that twitter is the ONLY way in which to communicate with customers. Some of us don't want to sign up to twitter or want to trawl through their many messages in the hope of finding one relevant to the service we want to take. There is nothing wrong with using twitter but only as one part of a wider communications strategy.

 

[Aictos]

One thing I find interesting is the plan for ALL stations to get WiFi even the unmanned ones, no idea who the provider is but this is a step in the right direction.

Plus 100 of the busiest stations to be manned from the first to the last train, again not sure how LOROL do this for example would they be platform staff, security staff or booking office clerks?

 

[petersi]

Plus 100 of the busiest stations to be manned from the first to the last train, again not sure how LOROL do this for example would they be platform staff, security staff or booking office clerks?

Questions that spring to mind
is this only Govia managed station or all stations stopped at
if all stations rather than Govia managed it would be interesting to now how many extra station will have staff during operating hours.

(a lot of the busiest station will already be managed during operating hours. eg Welwyn garden city as platforms 3 and 4 are platform despatch (though it may not be top Hundred station as its only 187 busiest on the network))

 

[infobleep]

Do we know if any of the 100 busiest stations are currently not manned from start to finish?

 

[Skimble19]

Hatfield, Hitchin, St Neots and Huntingdon spring to mind.. These stations are currently getting extra staffing anyway through FCC although its not first to last.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Turns out Great Northern wont be going anywhere as a brand just yet!

 

[Class377/5]

Nope, Govia Thameslink is having four sub brands. Sensible.

 

[jon0844]

I did think it would be madness if come September, Govia started to change signs and posters on the GN side with 'Thameslink'.

Where there are links (via bus) from the TL and GN lines today, I wonder how Govia will eventually differentiate them for such things? TL east and west? Or by the line names (MML & ECML)?

 

[Skimble19]

According to Govia Class 377s will be introduced onto Cambridge and Kings Lynn services from 2017.. Assuming peak time extras from/to Peterborough as well but wasn't mentioned.

 

[Class377/5]

According to Govia Class 377s will be introduced onto Cambridge and Kings Lynn services from 2017.. Assuming peak time extras from/to Peterborough as well but wasn't mentioned.

No, the 377s are for Cambridge and Kings Lynn services only. 365 are for the peak extra Peterbrough and via Welwyn services. And the 377 introduction is by 2017 meaning once the 319s go from Thameslink the 377s will head over to GN.

Also confirmed is Gatwick Express goes 12 car in peaks (as expected). 313 replacement stock will be high capacity metro environment. Uckfield gets longer trains once cascaded stock is available.

Interestly the timetable in place from December 2014 sees only 2tph Thameslink to Gatwick but from Dec 2015 you have 4tph with 2tph terminating at Three Bridges. There will be off peak Purley/Redhill to Thameslink from this timetable too.

And more trains to Cambridge 2017-2018.

 

[Skimble19]

No, the 377s are for Cambridge and Kings Lynn services only. 365 are for the peak extra Peterbrough and via Welwyn services. And the 377 introduction is by 2017 meaning once the 319s go from Thameslink the 377s will head over to GN.

Also confirmed is Gatwick Express goes 12 car in peaks (as expected). 313 replacement stock will be high capacity metro environment. Uckfield gets longer trains once cascaded stock is available.

Interestly the timetable in place from December 2014 sees only 2tph Thameslink to Gatwick but from Dec 2015 you have 4tph with 2tph terminating at Three Bridges. There will be off peak Purley/Redhill to Thameslink from this timetable too.

And more trains to Cambridge 2017-2018.

Apologies, had only skim-read it quickly Surely there will be far too many 365s just for those services? Unless only some are staying?

 

[Class377/5]

Apologies, had only skim-read it quickly Surely there will be far too many 365s just for those services? Unless only some are staying?

As I stated other day, around half the 365 are now to go elsewhere. Generally the rolling stock age gets younger under TSGN.

 

[A-driver]

No, the 377s are for Cambridge and Kings Lynn services only. 365 are for the peak extra Peterbrough and via Welwyn services. And the 377 introduction is by 2017 meaning once the 319s go from Thameslink the 377s will head over to GN.



Also confirmed is Gatwick Express goes 12 car in peaks (as expected). 313 replacement stock will be high capacity metro environment. Uckfield gets longer trains once cascaded stock is available.



Interestly the timetable in place from December 2014 sees only 2tph Thameslink to Gatwick but from Dec 2015 you have 4tph with 2tph terminating at Three Bridges. There will be off peak Purley/Redhill to Thameslink from this timetable too.



And more trains to Cambridge 2017-2018.

377s will also go to peterbourgh along with a few 365s (the wording was that a "few" 365s would be retained for peterbourgh but that is along with, not instead of 377s). That was what vince Lucas (goaheads mobilisation director) stated at the FCC management, leadership and safety conference the other day. They want 377s in by 2017. The cheapest bidder will also get the contract for moorgate trains.

They have also confirmed 4 seperate brands - GN, TL, SN & GE and stated 2tph to Lynn, 2tph through the night linking Gatwick and Luton airports and 4tph from both welwyn and Hertford to 'London' (at a guess moorgate but possibly kings cross).

Apparently all will be made official and public later in July.

 

[Aictos]

As I stated other day, around half the 365 are now to go elsewhere. Generally the rolling stock age gets younger under TSGN.

I know there's nothing wrong with the Class 365 fleet but it would have been nice instead to have a small fleet of Class 365s to instead introduce a larger fleet of Class 377s so they can interchange on Cambridge/Kings Lynn/Peterborough services like they do at the moment enabling the entire Class 317/321/365 fleets to go elsewhere.

I know it's wishful thinking as only a few 377s wil eventually come across to work Cambridges/Kings Lynns but it's a tad of a wasted opportunity as Govia will have 4 fleets to manage on the GN with the Class 700s/365s/313 Replacements/377s when they could in theory get away with having just three fleets IF more Class 377s were available.

Not sure where the Class 365s would go but TPE North would suit them I think.

 

[jon0844]

They're far too young to go up north yet....

[Runs away and hides]

 

[Yabbadabba]

They're far too young to go up north yet....

[Runs away and hides]

Good point, I know put them in storage for a few years at Eastleigh until their electrics are shot to bits then release them to another TOC.

 

[Wolfie]

They're far too young to go up north yet....

[Runs away and hides]

Send them to Great Western and thus free more 319s to go up North - they will be well received.....job's a gudun!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually seriously, given they must have some compatability with the diesel Networkers which FGW will still be using and thus maintenance might well be simplified, that wouldn't be a bad plan if they can meet the linespeed requirements.....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Send them to Great Western and thus free more 319s to go up North - they will be well received.....job's a gudun!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually seriously, given they must have some compatability with the diesel Networkers which FGW will still be using and thus maintenance might well be simplified, that wouldn't be a bad plan if they can meet the linespeed requirements.....

Half the 365 fleet (say 20 units) is a difficult number for TOCs, both for services and maintenance.
Not enough for TPE really (and would not displace 350s).
Maybe enough for GW Thames Valley, but not if they also need EMUs around Bristol/Cardiff.
Maybe MML to Corby, or initial East-West services?
Ideally they should be maintained with the other half which is staying at TSGN.

 

[Wolfie]

Half the 365 fleet (say 20 units) is a difficult number for TOCs, both for services and maintenance.
Not enough for TPE really (and would not displace 350s).
Maybe enough for GW Thames Valley, but not if they also need EMUs around Bristol/Cardiff.
Maybe MML to Corby, or initial East-West services?
Ideally they should be maintained with the other half which is staying at TSGN.

I agree but thought the discussion was about a hypothetical moving of all of the 365s and backfilling with more 377s in TSGN....