GWR Shortage of Traincrew Weekend and During Week

[Wilts Wanderer]

Or possibly to Bristol Parkway for the planned bus connections. Doesn’t exactly help Chippenham though.

 

[father_jack]

That’s appalling. No trains to Bath from Pad for 4 and a half hours? Maybe they should’ve just advertised the route as being closed and advised for passengers not to travel.

Was the advice for passengers to travel to Westbury and change there to an ex-Cornwall train?

Indeed, woeful.

 

[otomous]

As we have tried to explain before, drivers on the modern railway are contracturally required to work a number of Sundays or find someone else to do them in their place. This is not “volunteering”. However ex-BR drivers do not have such an obligation.

Furthermore the reduced service on Sundays is nothing to do with “the unions”. It has been a part of railway operations for most of its history. Originally cultural, by BR’s times it was another way of saving money, especially as people were heading for their cars in ever greater numbers. Now far more goes on on Sundays and TOCs have introduced more services. But to cover these comprehensively the Hidden rules would require them to hire more drivers, which they don’t want to do because they comes at a high initial and raised ongoing cost. Therefore they stick to a system of relying on drivers working extra Sundays. Sometimes this needs incentives, as most people would want to in order to give up their free day, as it may mean they are working 7 plus days in a row if they work it. Sometimes no incentive is enough - it’s Easter weekend and drivers want to spend it with their families too - and then cancellations are inevitable.

ASLEF is open to discussions on more Sundays, the TOCs do not want to pay for that.

 

[railfan100]

And most of the World have far more 'accidents' than we do ! The UK does not have the reputation for the safest Railway in the World for nothing

There has been some significant accidents in this country since the system was privatised and of course many accidents under BR. Still today there are many incidents each year with trains hitting buffers at stations etc, minor accidents but still accidents of a kind. I am not convinced the safety reputation is as you describe.

 

[father_jack]

As we have tried to explain before, drivers on the modern railway are contracturally required to work a number of Sundays or find someone else to do them in their place. This is not “volunteering”. However ex-BR drivers do not have such an obligation.

Furthermore the reduced service on Sundays is nothing to do with “the unions”. It has been a part of railway operations for most of its history. Originally cultural, by BR’s times it was another way of saving money, especially as people were heading for their cars in ever greater numbers. Now far more goes on on Sundays and TOCs have introduced more services. But to cover these comprehensively the Hidden rules would require them to hire more drivers, which they don’t want to do because they comes at a high initial and raised ongoing cost. Therefore they stick to a system of relying on drivers working extra Sundays. Sometimes this needs incentives, as most people would want to in order to give up their free day, as it may mean they are working 7 plus days in a row if they work it. Sometimes no incentive is enough - it’s Easter weekend and drivers want to spend it with their families too - and then cancellations are inevitable.

ASLEF is open to discussions on more Sundays, the TOCs do not want to pay for that.

What also enters calculations is with vacancies in abundance in some TOCs there's rest day work in ample supply during the week, leaving the Sunday as a "better" quality day to have off.

 

[jimm]

Not sure that holds true, when the Cotswold Line service was reduced to almost nothing on Saturday due to lack of drivers, while yesterday every service on the route operated, with just one bad delay caused by a door fault at Worcester affecting the 09.25 from Malvern.

 

[philthetube]

It is only a matter of time until the driver grade is finished as is the writing on the wall for the guard grade. I do not agree to this but it is the way that things are moving. Having spent much time in the Gulf recently and observing the Dubai Metro operating over many miles in a totally automatic way and every service running totally on time it is where the UK rail network is trying to get to in terms of technology. The driver grade in less than 20 years will be finished and a thing of the past. Most of the world considers driving trains as a role that is not highly skilled, look at the salary figures in other countries it is a poorly paid role and one ripe for automation.

how many level/footpath crossings on the Dubai Metro? how many cows get on the line? how many trespassers. Easy to do with new build but not with victorian infrastructure.

However really off topic so lets not go there again.

 

[gallafent]

how many level/footpath crossings on the Dubai Metro? how many cows get on the line? how many trespassers. Easy to do with new build but not with victorian infrastructure.

I guess that's why we've been doing it since the 1960s on new build, and only now, fifty years later, are we starting to upgrade the trickier legacy infrastructure

 

[railfan100]

how many level/footpath crossings on the Dubai Metro? how many cows get on the line? how many trespassers. Easy to do with new build but not with victorian infrastructure.

However really off topic so lets not go there again.

Automation does have the tech where it can detect physical hazards on the line, a little like the systems being fitted to high end cars in which danger can be detected often by a significant distance. Automation has to come and the years are ticking until the driver grade does go down the route that the guard grade has gone. With the automation like in places such as Dubai the standard of driving is so consistent smooth braking, super smooth stopping no underrunning or overrunning. The driver shortage builds the case for automation it has a real business case already..

 

[jimm]

What, like the technology in the car being tested by Uber that ran over and killed a woman the other week in the States - or the obstacle detectors on the level crossings between Norwich and Ely, which weren't exactly a rip-roaring success in their early days?

I believe GWR actually has a record number of drivers on its books at present but the various training programmes for IETs, 387s and Turbos in the West, plus route learning etc, mean a substantial number of people are not simply not available to drive passenger trains - and this has been the case for months now.

They seem to be making headway - e.g. weekday cancellations on the Cotswold Line for crew reasons in recent weeks are far less frequent than in the previous three or four months but every so often the wheels still seem to come off big time in the way they did on Saturday.

 

[deltic]

I have to go to Cardiff for a meeting on Monday morning from London. I was thinking of travelling down on Sunday evening but what is the probability of another weekend of widespread cancellations and should I just travel down early Monday morning?

 

[LordCreed]

I'm due to travel between Swindon and London Paddington next Sunday, on a Class 800 originating from Cheltenham Spa. I'm going to try and defy all odds.

No class 800s are running to / from Cheltenham Spa yet.

 

[PHILIPE]

Many Paddington to Brsitol TM and South Wales cancelled today and to aggravate the worsened position, there are quite a few of those that are running that will be very cosy due to their being formed 5 vice 10 IETs

 

[irish_rail]

Many Paddington to Brsitol TM and South Wales cancelled today and to aggravate the worsened position, there are quite a few of those that are running that will be very cosy due to their being formed 5 vice 10 IETs

Sign of things to come! Call me sinacle but why use a 9 or a 10 when 5 will (just about ) do. Shame that the western intercity routes are being so downgraded whilst the wcml and ecml look to escape with more proper length trains.

 

[Mag_seven]

What is the issue with Saturday now - Sundays are explained away by drivers not being contractually bound to work Sundays but why Saturdays when that is apparently part of the normal working week?

 

[LordCreed]

Sign of things to come! Call me sinacle but why use a 9 or a 10 when 5 will (just about ) do. Shame that the western intercity routes are being so downgraded whilst the wcml and ecml look to escape with more proper length trains.

Currently there are still issues surrounding the coupling of IETs, so the diagrams are ten cars throughout to ensure that they're at the full capacity for the busiest trains. Having been on a five car in the morning peak, it's not something I wish to repeat.

I fail to see why the routes are being downgraded? The January timetable see's much more frequent service, with higher capacity trains. Both a 9 car and a 10 car IET have far greater capacity than a HST (especially when they are regularly in 2+7 formation now due to shortforms).

What is the issue with Saturday now - Sundays are explained away by drivers not being contractually bound to work Sundays but why Saturdays when that is apparently part of the normal working week?

IET workings at the weekend are frequently changed due to engineering work. If you take a booked HST that's now become a IET, you might find that the existing driver doesn't sign the IET traction, therefore leaving the work uncovered. Until all the drivers sign IETs, you'll find this problem exists.

 

[MichaelAMW]

IET workings at the weekend are frequently changed due to engineering work. If you take a booked HST that's now become a IET, you might find that the existing driver doesn't sign the IET traction, therefore leaving the work uncovered. Until all the drivers sign IETs, you'll find this problem exists.

But that isn't going to come as a surprise so they should plan for it, either by swapping drivers round or changing the rolling stock diagrams.

 

[221129]

But that isn't going to come as a surprise so they should plan for it, either by swapping drivers round or changing the rolling stock diagrams.

If only it was as easy as you seem to think....

 

[LordCreed]

But that isn't going to come as a surprise so they should plan for it, either by swapping drivers round or changing the rolling stock diagrams.

Swapping drivers around is all so well and good, but that would mean the drivers would have to agree to the swap. If the new turn finishes later, then it's possible they won't have a long enough period of rest to allow them to work their next turn the following day.

As for changing the rolling stock diagrams, they changed for a reason in the first place. It's not just so simple as covering every train with the original stock.

 

[Parallel]

No class 800s are running to / from Cheltenham Spa yet.

I’ve just checked - my train actually comes from Port Talbot Parkway. Wish me luck!

 

[alastair]

Not a good day today on GWR made worse by terrible communication. Planning a trip to Worcester today, last night I messaged the GWR "social media" team asking if I was likely to be delayed, specifically referring to the service meltdown on the Cotswold line last Saturday. Got a reply saying "we expect to run a full service, but please check on our Journeycheck service". Low and behold this morning, when I look at Journeycheck on the GWR website around a dozen cancellations "due to a shortage of drivers" are listed having been updated earlier this morning just a few hours after I was told "we expect to run a full service". Can it really be that GWR have no idea how many drivers are going to turn up for work until that morning? Most of the cancellations were on Bristol and Swansea trains and the cancellations on the Cotswold line were not ones I planned to take, but the whole Cotswold line was plagued with delays today seemingly due to a combination of train crew stuck on other delayed trains and the single line sections. both my trains were over 30 mins late leading to missed connections at both ends.

Is GWR penalised for failing to run a proper service, with extensive cancellations one weekend after another?

 

[MichaelAMW]

If only it was as easy as you seem to think....

I don't "seem" to think it's easy but it does seem that things are put into the "that's all a bit too difficult" pile rather too easily. People are employed to plan things and they should do just that. The tail seems to wag the dog far too often. Meanwhile, the poor people who pay for it all are just let down again.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Swapping drivers around is all so well and good, but that would mean the drivers would have to agree to the swap. If the new turn finishes later, then it's possible they won't have a long enough period of rest to allow them to work their next turn the following day.

As for changing the rolling stock diagrams, they changed for a reason in the first place. It's not just so simple as covering every train with the original stock.

But changed for what [good] reason? It seems the direct result of this [good?] reason is trains being cancelled.

 

[JN114]

I don't "seem" to think it's easy but it does seem that things are put into the "that's all a bit too difficult" pile rather too easily. People are employed to plan things and they should do just that. The tail seems to wag the dog far too often. Meanwhile, the poor people who pay for it all are just let down again.

What is put in the “too difficult” category? How are you reaching that conclusion? What do you think the planners have spent the long hours in the last few days doing?

 

[JN114]

But changed for what [good] reason? It seems the direct result of this [good?] reason is trains being cancelled.

Possession preventing access to depot X; work following day meaning trains have to be outstabled at Y. Journey times increased between A and B so turnarounds need to be reshuffled at Z. Plenty of good reasons.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Possession preventing access to depot X; work following day meaning trains have to be outstabled at Y. Journey times increased between A and B so turnarounds need to be reshuffled at Z. Plenty of good reasons.

To answer both of your questions, if it's really as hard as you say, why were GWR accepting the Network Rail engineering demands in the first place? Note that they didn't think it was necessary to put on buses so I, quite reasonably I believe, draw the conclusion that they knew it was possible to plan for trains to be run. Either, the NR restrictions meant that they should actually have used more buses or they were wrong in their view that an adequate service could be run. One thing the planners haven't been doing is prioritising the movement of passengers, even if that meant road transport in places. I simply don't believe that cancelling a load of trains is the only option - that's what I call putting it in the too hard pile. Were all drivers contacted to see if they would change shifts, for example? If the truth is that there were simply not enough drivers to run a service that would need more drivers than a normal Sunday service then I guess that's a reason - but you haven't suggested that it is.

 

[PHILIPE]

55 Cancellations shown this morning. No advice as to what passengers should do.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Possession preventing access to depot X; work following day meaning trains have to be outstabled at Y. Journey times increased between A and B so turnarounds need to be reshuffled at Z. Plenty of good reasons.

I find it hard to agree that there is ever a "good" reason for short-term cancellation of a train if the reason was known about well in advance.

 

[FGW_DID]

Don't you just love armchair experts!

 

[JN114]

I find it hard to agree that there is ever a "good" reason for short-term cancellation of a train if the reason was known about well in advance.

These aren’t reasons for cancellations, they’re reasons why the diagrams change, which is the question you’d asked that I was then responding to. The “train plan” fully accounted for any infrastructure limitations placed on GWR by network rail - THAT is why the number of driver diagrams have to increase, and why units have to be swapped around etc.

The topic of conversation revolves around cancellations due to crew shortages. There were no cancellations due to planned engineering works.