Heathrow Connect suspended/332s withdrawn from service (running again)

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D365

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In other news, two 360s have turned up at East Ham depot overnight... :D
 

Class 170101

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332 fleet grounded for safety checks, 360s covering Express so Connect caped

This seems a bit arbitary - surprised that Heathrow Express are allowed to pinch a joint operators stock to run their own services.
 

route:oxford

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When was the last time an entire class/fleet was withdrawn on safety grounds?

The one that springs to mind was the 158s when they were initially introduced being subject to an emergency withdrawal - which resulted in anything that could be pressed into service being put in service. Famously resulting in an HST substituting for a sprinter on a local service out of Edinburgh.
 

Ash Bridge

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When was the last time an entire class/fleet was withdrawn on safety grounds?

The one that springs to mind was the 158s when they were initially introduced being subject to an emergency withdrawal - which resulted in anything that could be pressed into service being put in service. Famously resulting in an HST substituting for a sprinter on a local service out of Edinburgh.

Also was there not a similar mass withdrawal of the 155 sprinters not so long after their introduction into service after (I think) an incident involving an exterior door opening itself whilst the train was at speed? I seem to remember 150's being brought in to replace them on the Manchester - Cardiff services.
 
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Bantamzen

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It's to be hoped that the issue with the 332s doesn't extend to the 333s. There is no way Northern could cover the loss of all those units. The slightly worrying thing is that some of the 333s have been suffering issues recently, with the 321/322s making more regular appearances on the Aire and Wharfe, as well as the odd 158.
 

D365

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If London Underground is to be included, there was the 92TS temporary withdrawal in 2003 as a consequence of the Chancery Lane derailment.

Are Heathrow Connect tickets being accepted on the Express trains.
It seems passengers will be getting a really rough deal if they are not accepted.

Not much use for passengers boarding at intermediate stations, unless HEx is making additional stops.
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It's to be hoped that the issue with the 332s doesn't extend to the 333s. There is no way Northern could cover the loss of all those units.

Borrow some more 321s or 319s? If any are available later in the year.
 

westcoaster

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When was the last time an entire class/fleet was withdrawn on safety grounds?

The one that springs to mind was the 158s when they were initially introduced being subject to an emergency withdrawal - which resulted in anything that could be pressed into service being put in service. Famously resulting in an HST substituting for a sprinter on a local service out of Edinburgh.

377/5's were withdrawn on mass due to bearing problems in 2009/10 time.
 

theageofthetra

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I wonder if there is any connection to the RAIB report into that low speed derailment at Paddington the other year where the maintenance of the bogie was a contributory factor? Mind you wasn't that one of the T4 shuttles not the actual HEX train?
 

Bantamzen

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Borrow some more 321s or 319s? If any are available later in the year.

Are any 321s available? The 333s are heavily worked, with the existing 321/322s generally being used for the Wakefield line workings and a few additional peak services on the Aire/Wharfe lines. I suppose 319s might be a option but none of the West Yorkshire drivers will have signed for them, so there would be a period where DMUs would have to cover. But they would more likely be 2 car units (assuming any could be found) which would cause issues in the peaks as even the EMUs get overloaded.
 

Philip Phlopp

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I wonder if there is any connection to the RAIB report into that low speed derailment at Paddington the other year where the maintenance of the bogie was a contributory factor? Mind you wasn't that one of the T4 shuttles not the actual HEX train?

That was a 360.
 

theageofthetra

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Yes, just checked the report. A whole class being taken out of service is pretty big news (even bigger if it affects the 333's) so am surprised there is not more information on this.

HEX twitter only operates up to 6pm on a Sun and very little info on there anyway other than Business First refund advice.

For this decision to be made presumably something got picked up on an exam or happened whilst in service- perhaps on an ECS otherwise someone was bound to tweet it. As has been said previously if this goes into the morning peak then perhaps more will be made of it.

Regarding the 333's how similar are they to the affected units?
 

ChrisHogan

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Also was there not a similar mass withdrawal of the 155 sprinters not so long after their introduction into service after (I think) an incident involving an exterior door opening itself whilst the train was at speed? I seem to remember 150's being brought in to replace them on the Manchester - Cardiff services.

Yes, all the 155 Sprinters were withdrawn (1989 I think) after multiple door wrong side failures. We borrowed Class 156s from the north for the best part of a year to cover.
 

PHILIPE

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Yes, all the 155 Sprinters were withdrawn (1989 I think) after multiple door wrong side failures. We borrowed Class 156s from the north for the best part of a year to cover.

The 156s were a newly built batch en route to Scotland and which were commandeered and diverted to Canton to cover. Drivers had a day conversion on the Sunday ready to introduce them on the Monday. I can recall Regional Railways Control cancelling half the Cardiff Valley trains on the Friday and deploying the 150s on the Portsmouth route.
 

Paul180

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Did the Mk4s get taken out of service in about 1998 due to a wheel/bearing problems after a derailment not long after the Eschede train disaster which lead to 317 turning up at Leeds?
 

Bletchleyite

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This seems a bit arbitary - surprised that Heathrow Express are allowed to pinch a joint operators stock to run their own services.

Presumably GWR will run their bit of the joint operation with DMUs?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
When was the last time an entire class/fleet was withdrawn on safety grounds?

The one I recall, but it was absolutely ages ago, was the entire fleet of 91/Mk4 sets being withdrawn and replaced (sort-of) with a load of Great Northern EMUs of some kind.

As for HSTs replacing Sprinters, you occasionally used to see a pint-sized HST (2 power cars, 2 coaches) substituting for XC 158s when they had them in Virgin days. And on similar lines a Cornish Sleeper set (with all the sleeper coaches locked out and just the seats open) has been used to run Oxford-Padd vice a DMU.

As for this one, though, that lack of information (no information on alternatives, no explanation) is pretty poor in this day and age.
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Just had a flick through Northern's Twitter page, no mention of problems with their 333s so presumably whatever the issue with HXs 332s if (hopefully) confined to the 332s.

Are 332s and 360s currently the only units permitted and equipped to go down to Heathrow?
 

Ianigsy

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It's to be hoped that the issue with the 332s doesn't extend to the 333s. There is no way Northern could cover the loss of all those units. The slightly worrying thing is that some of the 333s have been suffering issues recently, with the 321/322s making more regular appearances on the Aire and Wharfe, as well as the odd 158.

Yesterday afternoon when I was passing Neville Hill there was a 333 in the yard with wooden boards bolted over some of the doors, which isn't a good sign! Some of the 321s and 322s spend most of the day in between peaks stabled so could take up some of the slack (or the whole weekend parked up at Skipton), alternatively the standard replacement on the Wharfedale line seems to be 2x158.

My abiding memory of the Scottish 156s substituting for Cardiff-based 155s in 1989 was boarding the 156 at Newport and finding that the seat I'd reserved didn't exist- the 156s were surplus following the Ness Bridge collapse but they'd already had a row or two of seats removed to enlarge the cycle/luggage space. The only other time that's happened to me was when an ex-Central Trains 158 turned up on a TPE service from Liverpool to Leeds- when I actually had an advance ticket with a reservation for the non-existent seat.
 

Kite159

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Yesterday afternoon when I was passing Neville Hill there was a 333 in the yard with wooden boards bolted over some of the doors, which isn't a good sign! Some of the 321s and 322s spend most of the day in between peaks stabled so could take up some of the slack (or the whole weekend parked up at Skipton), alternatively the standard replacement on the Wharfedale line seems to be 2x158.

My abiding memory of the Scottish 156s substituting for Cardiff-based 155s in 1989 was boarding the 156 at Newport and finding that the seat I'd reserved didn't exist- the 156s were surplus following the Ness Bridge collapse but they'd already had a row or two of seats removed to enlarge the cycle/luggage space. The only other time that's happened to me was when an ex-Central Trains 158 turned up on a TPE service from Liverpool to Leeds- when I actually had an advance ticket with a reservation for the non-existent seat.

I think that 333 with boards over the doors has been there for over a year, so nothing new there.
 

swt_passenger

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Are 332s and 360s currently the only units permitted and equipped to go down to Heathrow?

Yes, because (although it was a bit of a side issue in the discussion) it was emphasised during the recent thread about c2c extra units that the EMUs suitable to run to Heathrow must be fitted with GW ATP; and therefore all the ideas about 'just using 387s' etc were impossible.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Apart from the GW-ATP are the 332s and 333s both mechanically and electrically/electronically identical?
 

BestWestern

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I believe the issue is structural, cracks found in a component I hear. Serious issues expected tomorrow rush hour as the suspension of Connect leaves Hayes, Southall etc somewhat under served. Not good. Highly likely that the 333s could be affected also, I presume.
 

SpacePhoenix

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I believe the issue is structural, cracks found in a component I hear. Serious issues expected tomorrow rush hour as the suspension of Connect leaves Hayes, Southall etc somewhat under served. Not good. Highly likely that the 333s could be affected also, I presume.

If it's structural would it most likely be something in the bogies or something in the bodywork to need all of the class to be taken immediately out of service?
 
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