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Heathrow Connect suspended/332s withdrawn from service (running again)

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causton

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Just tweeted from NRE:

"nationalrailenq: #HeathrowAirport - Great Western Railway will run half hourly shuttle trains between London Paddington and Hayes & Harlington"
"nationalrailenq: #HeathrowAirport - No Heathrow Connect services on Monday 29 February."

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/120734.aspx

Most importantly for some:

"Heathrow Connect passengers with pre-paid tickets may use Heathrow Express services."
 
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BestWestern

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If it's structural would it most likely be something in the bogies or something in the bodywork to need all of the class to be taken immediately out of service?

Most likely bogies/underframe, very unusual for bodyshells to develop chronic defects of that nature.
 

Bantamzen

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Yesterday afternoon when I was passing Neville Hill there was a 333 in the yard with wooden boards bolted over some of the doors, which isn't a good sign! Some of the 321s and 322s spend most of the day in between peaks stabled so could take up some of the slack (or the whole weekend parked up at Skipton), alternatively the standard replacement on the Wharfedale line seems to be 2x158.

Do we know how many 333s are diagrammed per day? There are only 3 of 321s and 5 322s, and it usually needs 3 to operate the Wakefield line at some point during the day, so any withdrawal of the 333s would leave just 5 EMUs for the Aire & Wharfe unless they switched the Wakefield to DMU only operation. Either way, that would see DMU operation on these which can never cope at peak times. Fingers crossed the 332 issue isn't replicated in the 333s.....
 

SpacePhoenix

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Do we know how many 333s are diagrammed per day? There are only 3 of 321s and 5 322s, and it usually needs 3 to operate the Wakefield line at some point during the day, so any withdrawal of the 333s would leave just 5 EMUs for the Aire & Wharfe unless they switched the Wakefield to DMU only operation. Either way, that would see DMU operation on these which can never cope at peak times. Fingers crossed the 332 issue isn't replicated in the 333s.....

Which routes would get DMUs "borrowed" from to cover if needed for all the Wakefield route?
 

Bantamzen

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Which routes would get DMUs "borrowed" from to cover if needed for all the Wakefield route?

Well the obvious choice would be any doubled up units on routes such as the Harrogate or Calder lines. It would be deeply unpopular with those line's users, but you couldn't leave the Aire/Wharfe with few units especially in the peaks.

However thankfully so far no such move is needed, 333s running as diagrammed.
 
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dk1

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Last major issue I remember with the 333s was around 10yrs ago when wheel profile caused by I think faulty grease pots on the Airport extension. Large proportion of the fleet was grounded but I don't think all of them.
 

91101

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Other than the aforementioned 377/5 issue with FCC, the 221/220 fleet was entirely grounded on one of the May Bank holidays in 2005 owing to an explosion in part of the door mechanism which injured a fitter at Bristol in the early hours of the morning.

The fleet had to be checked for defects and problems, took a long time to get from Newcastle to Birmingham that day!
 

bnm

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Other than the aforementioned 377/5 issue with FCC, the 221/220 fleet was entirely grounded on one of the May Bank holidays in 2005 owing to an explosion in part of the door mechanism which injured a fitter at Bristol in the early hours of the morning.

The fleet had to be checked for defects and problems, took a long time to get from Newcastle to Birmingham that day!

I remember that day! I was working as a CSA Temp for FGW at Bristol Temple Meads. Getting people to and from the north and south west was quite a challenge.
 

VP185

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Cracks have been discovered in the roll bars on the Class 332 Heathrow Express fleet
 

LNW-GW Joint

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If there is a structural problem, it will be interesting to see how CAF deal with it in the light of the Northern order for new trains.
 

Mojo

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When was the last time an entire class/fleet was withdrawn on safety grounds?
Silverlink withdrew the class 321 fleet in Sept 2003 due to issues with the brakes.

I remember going to Cheddington and most services that ran were formed of Wagn 313s.
 

Groningen

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Recent tweet from Railway Gazette:
UK: @HeathrowExpress EMUs taken out of service after routine check finds 'technical issue'. Class 360s to be used instead.
 

edwin_m

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Most likely bogies/underframe, very unusual for bodyshells to develop chronic defects of that nature.

The 158s had bodyshell structural issues in the early days, and the entire production of Siemens Combino trams had to be recalled for a major rebuild. In the latter case I believe they had used a set of maximum accelerations relevant to a train not a tram, and there was a risk of the traction equipment falling in through the roof. A decade or so later their reputation in trams hasn't really recovered.
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Anti-roll bars are a structural component of the bogie.

However they should be fairly easily replaceable, although they may have to get some spare ones fabricated if they don't have enough.

This could well apply to 333s too, but is probably mileage-related so won't manifest itself on the newer 333s for a while. This may mean that replacements can be obtained and fitted, perhaps even to a modified design, in an orderly manner rather than grounding that fleet too. If the design has to change then another set might then need retro-fitting to 332s.

The Paddington derailment of a 360 was related to anti-roll bars.

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/derailment-of-an-empty-passenger-train-at-paddington-station
 

theageofthetra

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Probably just coincidence but incorrect roll bar set up on their 360's was a factor in the Paddington derailment a couple of years ago. Would they have both involved the same engineering team given the different manufacturers?
 

A0wen

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Silverlink withdrew the class 321 fleet in Sept 2003 due to issues with the brakes.

I remember going to Cheddington and most services that ran were formed of Wagn 313s.

I believe that led to some interesting workings involving 313s, 323s and 150s.....
 

Wolfie

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35686461

The BBC take on this story - key bits....

"All Heathrow Express rolling stock has been taken out of service after engineers found a structural fault on one of its trains."

Train drivers union Aslef told the BBC a crack was found in the underframe of one train on Sunday.

A spokeswoman for Heathrow Express said the fault was "passable" but that engineers had "decided to test every single train" as a safety precaution.

Heathrow Express director Fraser Brown said: "We are working with Siemens engineers, who manage our depot site and the maintenance of our trains, to understand the extent of this issue.

"When we are aware of what we are dealing with, we will be able to make a decision on when a full service will resume."
 

Bletchleyite

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Didn't DB withdraw all ICE-Ts following a derailment in Cologne HBF? Didn't they have to replace all the axles?

I think so, they also had to withdraw the ICE1s or ICE2s (I forget which) in the late 90s because of a fault of some kind. Long trains of ageing Bm235 200km/h compartment coaches hauled by whatever locos were available were used as a replacement of sorts.
 

cactustwirly

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That is very true, hate to imagine morning peak tomorrow although hopefully it should be all sorted out by then.
Sam

I would hate to imagine tomorrow full stop!

Trains between Hayes and Paddington are always very busy, I just don't see how FGW/GWR will be able to cover those extra services, as they don't have anything to spare
 
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SWT_USER

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Hanwell passengers shafted again this morning as (as far as I could tell) the shuttle service didn't rub until the 7.33 from Hayes and FGW didn't bother stopping any additional services. Really poor. We're not even getting the benefit of the additional services from the May timetable :(
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I would hate to imagine tomorrow full stop!

Trains between Hayes and Paddington are always very busy, I just don't see how FGW/GWR will be able to cover those extra services, as they don't have anything to spare

Their standard response when anything goes vauguely wrong is to cancel the Greenford train. That would free up two units.
 

Nippy

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Making plans to run the shuttles as 5 cars tomorrow. Don't know what they are short forming to run them though!
 

swt_passenger

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Train drivers union Aslef told the BBC a crack was found in the underframe of one train on Sunday.

So is it really a structural fault, or is it a cracked anti-roll bar? The latter is not really structural, it is a suspension component.
 

theageofthetra

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The RAIB report into the 360 derailment posted previously explains very well why the anti roll bar is an important component.
 

swt_passenger

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The RAIB report into the 360 derailment posted previously explains very well why the anti roll bar is an important component.

I'm not saying it isn't important, just highlighting that it isn't a 'crack in an under frame' as the BBC are quoting ASLEF.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Does the HX/HC route have a high % of either left-hand or right-hand curves that would place un-even wear on one side?
 

Philip Phlopp

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Does the HX/HC route have a high % of either left-hand or right-hand curves that would place un-even wear on one side?

Doesn't matter, engineering should be dealing with it.

It'll be a dodgy batch of whatever it is. I do hope Lucchini isn't involved.
 

PHILIPE

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Understand 2 Units returning to traffic to-morrow.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Forget that. I mis-read the info. The 2 from Maintenance are GWR 165s to run additionals to Hayes.
 
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