Just to make you aware in case you're not already, the first train of the day on a Saturday is timetabled to have first class as it's actually come all the way from Cambridge. It is at 05:19 from Theobalds though so I imagine it's not a train you frequently find yourself on!
Fortunately I'm not up so early!
Ah so you're an Enfield resident too. Indeed, the FCC trains from Gordon Hill don't ever have first class as far as I'm aware, and their standard class is often in better shape than GA's first class, so I can understand the confusion. No doubt you'd have realised soon enough that you were in first class once you noticed the antimacassars (the bibs to which you refer); it is unfortunate that you were spotted by Greater Anglia's member of staff so soon after boarding.
Yes, I am sure I would have realised soon enough. I can see in the photo how prominenet the antimacassars are and I can kick myself even more now. However, as I have said, my eye was immediately drawn to the mud and, upon sitting, I went straight into reading a document that I was carrying.
By the way, I don't intend to be particularly anti-Greater-Anglia in this thread. I'm just particularly incensed by this incident because I have actually stood on those trains just outside the first class section in a packed commuter rush-hour and thought to myself that I bet something like this would happen one day. Sure, to a trained eye it's easy to spot that it's first class (my goodness, arm rests!) but I've travelled with enough people who aren't so clued-up about train travel to realise that mistakes like this can easily be made.
Thank you for your sympathy! It's nice to know that you understand how something like this can easily happen.
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But the photograph of the muddy seats show they have antimacassars with 'First Class' prominently across them!
Yes, I agree 100%... please see my previous post above
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Assuming the seats were mostly empty, so you could see the antimacassars, I guess you should have spotted it when sitting down. But, if there are no closing doors and only very small stickers at the end of the 'compartment' then it's pretty bad on the part of GA (and National Express before it, which refreshed the trains to make them look as they do today).
Sadly, the offence was still committed but that doesn't mean you can't make a point of asking GA why it doesn't make it clearer (I wouldn't argue about the state of first class itself as that damage is done by passengers, not the TOC).
I'd settle up as required and then write to GA and see if they might, given the full explanation of what happened, might be willing to give some rail vouchers to refund you, or at least state what plans it might have to stop others making the same mistake.
I've been in first class on a FCC train where there were no stickers (presumably they'd just replaced the windows or the anti-etch film) and the ONLY signs of it being first class was by seeing the antimacassars (seat covers) which are obviously hidden if people are sat down, and you could miss the one on your own seat. It may well have been temporary, but I doubt any RPIs would have seen it that way.
In the case of GA, it seems like the lack of obvious markings isn't a temporary thing.. but unfortunately there's not a lot you can do about it. As a route operated by driver only, penalty fares are in place - but that doesn't prevent a TOC opting to prosecute. It should be clearly written by the doors (to be fair to FCC, they do make it very clear) and opting to pay the extra is not an option purely because there's nobody there to take your money, except the occasional random ticket check.
[With regards to the photos; nobody can force you to delete the photos. Even the police must obtain a court order and the RPI could quite happily have taken action against you afterwards (which probably wouldn't go anywhere), but not stopp you from leaving before doing so. That might be worthy of a separate complaint].
Thank you for your suggestion. There's no denying that I offended and will have to take the punishment, but will certainly contact GA as you suggested.
I've also learnt something about the laws regarding photography!
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Doesn't matter what the seats were like, you can see clearly that they were first class seats. Did it never cross your mind that the mud on there is from similar people who sit in there without a first class ticket and put there feet on the seats just like they do in standard.
Clip,
Please see above for my explanation of how I missed the antimacassars. If that makes me an idiot, then, okay, I'm an idiot.
On the basis of what happened, and the fact that I didn'd know it was first class, no, it didn't cross my mind because I thought I was in standard class.
Also, are you suggesting that I am one of 'similar people' who sit in first class without a ticket and put their feet on seats? Please be advised that I am the wrong side of 55 and was brought up well by my parents, even though I don't travel first class.
And, do you suggest that first class ticket holders do not put their feet on seats?
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On suburban commuter lines, the benefit of travelling first class isn't nicer seats or refreshments, it's that you're more likely to get a seat on a crowded train with a first class ticket,
That's interesting. I find it strange that you are only paying for a better chance of being seated. That means that I could have paid an extra £2.20 (50% increase) and still had to stand. Without re-checking, I think I noticed that the first class supplement (for my journey) is the same price at all times, I wonder why that is, given that there is less chance of obtaining a seat during peak hours.
They don't say that on the tin!
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...It really doesn't help at all that, when they are used on Hertford East services, first class is generally declassified, but when used on Cambridge services, it isn't. How would a passenger travelling from Tottenham Hale to Liverpool Street like the OP be able to know whether it was or not?
That is very good point, albeit, I wouldn't have even considered that, given that I don't use overground trains that frequently and, as I say, FCC trains to/from Gordon Hill have never presented me with any issues.
I think that the threat of prosecution or even a £20 penalty fare is quite harsh for what was a simple mistake, but unfortunately that's Greater Anglia's decision and I can only wish the OP good luck with the situation.
Thank you, I appreciate your good wishes!