HST Power Car into retro livery

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alexl92

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I heard from a few souces a while ago that one of the TOCs had planned to repaint an HST Power Car into a 'retro' BR livery.

I havent heard anything since; anyone know anything more about it?
 
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route:oxford

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I heard from a few souces a while ago that one of the TOCs had planned to repaint an HST Power Car into a 'retro' BR livery.

I havent heard anything since; anyone know anything more about it?

They'd look quite good in 1980s Scotrail.
 

pdeaves

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I heard from a few souces a while ago that one of the TOCs had planned to repaint an HST Power Car into a 'retro' BR livery.

That will be GWR. 'First built' (production series) 43002, I believe, should appear in blue/grey. Probably about 2 May (the St Philip's Marsh depot open day)!
 

XCTurbostar

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So will 43002 be stored because of this overhaul period or what?

Thanks,
Ross
 

randyrippley

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waste of time unless they retrofit a Valenta into it along with the original supercharger and cooling group
It has to SOUND right as well as look right to be authentic.
An HST power car is supposed to howl at you, and make children cry at 100 yards distant
 

nottsnurse

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Given that, through the lack of recent refurbishments to their Mk.3 stock, EMT are the most 'retro' HST operator, wouldn't it be more apt for them to repaint one of their fleet?

;)
 

sprinterguy

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It has to SOUND right as well as look right to be authentic.
In my eyes, I'm not sure that it'll even look right: The new style of headlight clusters make quite a dramatic difference to the appearance of the front end, and I'm not sure how that'll sit with a relatively staid livery (compared to modern efforts) like BR blue and grey.
An HST power car is supposed to howl at you, and make children cry at 100 yards distant
They certainly are. <D
 

yorksrob

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Personally I think a whole set ought to be put into a heritage livery, rather than a single power car which will be something of a sore thumb.
 

fgwrich

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waste of time unless they retrofit a Valenta into it along with the original supercharger and cooling group
It has to SOUND right as well as look right to be authentic.
An HST power car is supposed to howl at you, and make children cry at 100 yards distant

But isn't going to happen. Why would you want to mechanically non standard a PC just to make it look more original / authentic. It'll happen after the PCs are displaced from Mainline service, but would be stupid to do so until then. Not least because the current PCs were completely re-wired as well.

And besides, somewhat controversially, I like the Growl of the MTU Series 4000. They can sound very beastly (see the same engine in Red Funnels RED Jet Fast Cats). And certainly don't miss how oil / coolant & whatever else it leaked covered engine rooms of the Paxman engine rooms on those things! That doesn't mean to say I don't not want to see one back to original condition, but I don't miss it as much.
 

Hairy Bear

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Given that, through the lack of recent refurbishments to their Mk.3 stock, EMT are the most 'retro' HST operator, wouldn't it be more apt for them to repaint one of their fleet?

;)
It's been on the cards for a while , but.....it means spending money aaaaaah !.
 

sprinterguy

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I agree, except for the issue of doors!
This has been discussed in this regard somewhere recently, but I'm not sure whether heritage liveries such as BR blue/grey might benefit from some sort of grandfather rights that negates the need for contrasting doors: The single, former prototype, mark 3 vehicle which received BR Pullman reverse blue/grey for a short while in service with FGW didn't have them, and also note that Chiltern's blue and grey mark 3 rake, some vehicles of which have only fairly recently been repainted into this livery from Virgin red/black to create a matching set, doesn't have them, either.
 

fgwrich

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This has been discussed in this regard somewhere recently, but I'm not sure whether heritage liveries such as BR blue/grey might benefit from some sort of grandfather rights that negates the need for contrasting doors: The single, former prototype, mark 3 vehicle which received BR Pullman reverse blue/grey for a short while in service with FGW didn't have them, and also note that Chiltern's blue and grey mark 3 rake, some vehicles of which have only fairly recently been repainted into this livery from Virgin red/black to create a matching set, doesn't have them, either.

But the former prototype Mk3 - 42353 by the way - did not run in Passenger Service like that though. It was only reliviered for RailFest, moved from Laira to OOC in a HST consist as an extra vehicle then onwards to York and back again.

I'm not sure how the rules surrounding the Chiltern Mk3s are as they inherited the stock through DB from Cargo D though. And as proven recently, Chiltern are now reprinting them out of BR Blue Grey into Chilterns "Mainline" livery with compliant doors.
 

sprinterguy

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But the former prototype Mk3 - 42353 by the way - did not run in Passenger Service like that though. It was only reliviered for RailFest, moved from Laira to OOC in a HST consist as an extra vehicle then onwards to York and back again.
Ah okay, I thought it had made it out into passenger service for a day or two.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And as proven recently, Chiltern are now reprinting them out of BR Blue Grey into Chilterns "Mainline" livery with compliant doors.
Is that still ongoing? I'm not suggesting that it's not, just genuinely curious as I don't know whether any more carriages have been outshopped after 12094 (which promptly saw fit to remove itself from service in a fairly high profile manner): I'm at the wrong end of the Chiltern route to see the slam door set with any sort of regularity.
 

zn1

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as this is a major milestone for the 125 fleet...ATOC should really be paying for the repaint of an entire set back in to their delivery paintjob, the set should be kept in this paint job for the rest of their life...as a testament to their sisters, their builders, drivers, fitters and everyone who remembers them when they burst on the GWML screaming their hearts out...
 

co-tr-paul

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I have received a personal email afew months back from our engineering manager saying that the whole of 253001 would be created livery wise BUT the current regs got in the way. Wonder if we left the EU things might be different !
 

fgwrich

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Is that still ongoing? I'm not suggesting that it's not, just genuinely curious as I don't know whether any more carriages have been outshopped after 12094 (which promptly saw fit to remove itself from service in a fairly high profile manner): I'm at the wrong end of the Chiltern route to see the slam door set with any sort of regularity.

Indeed it is. The 'Banbury Set' Mk3s still retain their original doors, and are being painted in the DMU style 'Mainline' livery. As seen in this photo.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris...A3d-daKE57-Cneyjf-v5CLNW-xrJptY-BWGe2d-BRHkgR
 

DarloRich

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as this is a major milestone for the 125 fleet...ATOC should really be paying for the repaint of an entire set back in to their delivery paintjob, the set should be kept in this paint job for the rest of their life...as a testament to their sisters, their builders, drivers, fitters and everyone who remembers them when they burst on the GWML screaming their hearts out...

whilst in the real world...........
 

D1009

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Personally I think a whole set ought to be put into a heritage livery, rather than a single power car which will be something of a sore thumb.
Are you sure you don't want it reduced to 2+7 including 2 catering vehicles, and the seats returning to their original layout?
 

cjmillsnun

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waste of time unless they retrofit a Valenta into it along with the original supercharger and cooling group
It has to SOUND right as well as look right to be authentic.
An HST power car is supposed to howl at you, and make children cry at 100 yards distant

It's supposed to scream and howl at you. And HSTs never had superchargers. They would've growled rather than screamed if they did. The Valenta engine was fitted with a Napier turbocharger. Yes both are forced induction, but they work in totally different ways. Superchargers are direct driven by the engine, turbochargers by exhaust gas.

But as someone else has said... Back in the real world, we'll just have to accept a paint job. It is far better than nothing.
 

yorksrob

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Are you sure you don't want it reduced to 2+7 including 2 catering vehicles, and the seats returning to their original layout?

Facing seats would be nice :D

But I'd settle for repainting into IC Swallow.
 

zn1

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you dont reverse engineer unless there is a very good reason for it...the railway valentas were knackered, rebuilt several times...a power unit can only be rebuilt so many times before it becomes scrap metal..

i can never understand the reverse engineering of vehicles even when they are preserved, they were reconfigured for a reason, and they should stay in the condition they were last used in..just my opinion mind.. but why go to all the expense of a costly rewire, having to rebuild at least 3 power units (valentas - 2 x 1 maintenance spare) when the current package is working, efficient and isnt life expired..?? 42001 is in prototype condition and is now a runner...the industry has the forerunner of what become the current design.

The MTU Package does the job,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i recall rail magazine paying for the class 50 laira repaints, as nse wouldnt pay for the repaints, they would have found the cash to do repaints for the final few in their last days .....now that was a real world taking the mickey and the gricers paid for the paint !!

the real world sucks - thats why im on medication
 

randyrippley

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42001 is in prototype condition and is now a runner...the industry has the forerunner of what become the current design.

no its not......its got a main production Valenta fitted, not the prototype engine

there were differences - weren't there problems with revised cylinder heads on the initial production models, and cylinder cracks due to different metals?
 
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