If a train is booked to stop, must it, in fact, physically do so?

[scrapy]

As a driver if you're given an instruction by the signaller not to call somewhere, you follow it. That wouldn't be classed as a fail to call, unless there was something more going on.

Classed as a fail to call because driver suggested it without authority of his control. Signaller agreed to it and claimed he'd thought the Driver had authority of TOC. Driver then took it. Management also tried to do him for taking a wrong route but this was dropped.

 

[scrapy]

On the contrary. The incentive on the TOC to try and make sure that its own units don't fail in future remained in place.

Imagine if safety 'penalties' could only be applied if somebody was actually killed or injured.

No safety was compromised and it was a charter train that had failed nothing to do with his TOC.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Just to make it even more confusing for passengers why not only when the first day of the month is a Wednesday, but not for months that have 31 days?

Train don't stop Camborne Wednesdays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_axHV2wx8RA

 

[Bromley boy]

Classed as a fail to call because driver suggested it without authority of his control. Signaller agreed to it and claimed he'd thought the Driver had authority of TOC. Driver then took it. Management also tried to do him for taking a wrong route but this was dropped.

I can well see why the driver would feel a bit hard done by in that situation. I've spoken to other drivers who have made "suggestions" to the signaller that are then acted upon - for example if a train is dangerously crush-loaded suggesting that it skip some stops - this is common sense and nothing like the situation where someone misreads their schedule and flies through a calling point.

I assume the driver in this case was not DOO otherwise clearly they'd be no way of knowing the train was empty, and you'd need to be very, very sure there were no pax on board before you went into a siding.

Cant help but wondering if the driver was a marked man and management were looking for any excuse...

 

[6Gman]

So, Fair day is 2nd weds of the month, market days all other tuesdays? Not that complicated!

No.

Fair Day was the 1st Weds of each month.

Except where the 1st of the month was a Wednesday.

In which case Fair Day was the 2nd Weds of each month.

Simples!

 

[Dougal2345]

On train and at station announcements further up the line saying ask guard (this would need to be handled differently on DOO and signs at said stations (plus announcements) saying you need to flag down the train to get on. Making it as obvious as possible should be compulsory!

Maybe more stations could be made into request stops, but rather than the "ask the guard/wave arms on platform" methods, a bit of modern technology could be used... bus-style buttons by the seats on the train, and a big button on the platform somewhere to send a signal the driver...

 

[70014IronDuke]

Easy.

Until booked departure time.

Of course, how silly of me.

And if you are five minutes down?

 

[70014IronDuke]

On the contrary. The incentive on the TOC to try and make sure that its own units don't fail in future remained in place.

Imagine if safety 'penalties' could only be applied if somebody was actually killed or injured.

This is disengenous nonsense. Are you a political adviser?

The case quoted has nothing to do with incentives for good maintenance nor safety.

 

[sjoh]

No.

Fair Day was the 1st Weds of each month.

Except where the 1st of the month was a Wednesday.

In which case Fair Day was the 2nd Weds of each month.

Simples!

darn it

 

[Dvorak]

​
For example - the first train off Skegness, the 07.09 to Nottingham, which is booked to stop at Havenhouse (a grand total of 162 passengers last year) and Thorpe Culvert (286).

Why aren't stations with so few passengers request stops? A passenger less than one every four trains. Assuming not every passenger is travelling by themselves, in reality even more infrequent.

 

[Grumpy]

About 15 years ago I planned to return from Glasgow to Wharfedale by changing at Lancaster and Shipley. All went well to Lancaster but only to find the Leeds-Morecambe train was still on its outward journey and the return (my connection) would be late and I would inevitably miss my next connection at Shipley.
I mentioned this to the guard when he came round when we eventually left Lancaster. After Carnforth he came round again, checked where everyone was going, then went into the driver’s cab.
The train then ran non-stop to Skipton missing all the intermediate stops. The driver slowed the train on approaching these stops, gave a long blast on the horn and carried on. The guard had a good look at the platforms as we went through to check no-one was waiting (as I guess did the driver).
The result was we had made up lost time and I (and possibly others) made my connection.
At the time I thought the traincrew’s actions were a good example of using common sense to help their passengers. I guess they operated the line regularly and knew the likely usage on what was the last train of the day.

 

[Spartacus]

Maybe more stations could be made into request stops, but rather than the "ask the guard/wave arms on platform" methods, a bit of modern technology could be used... bus-style buttons by the seats on the train, and a big button on the platform somewhere to send a signal the driver...

All well and good until someone figures out the very easy ways in which one can, quite literally, 'gum up the works', never mind more permanent ones.

 

[najaB]

All well and good until someone figures out the very easy ways in which one can, quite literally, 'gum up the works', never mind more permanent ones.

Not to mention that if the platform equipment is sending a signal to the driver, then there needs to be proving to ensure that the intending passenger knows the driver receives the message.

 

[Dougal2345]

All well and good until someone figures out the very easy ways in which one can, quite literally, 'gum up the works', never mind more permanent ones.

Not to mention that if the platform equipment is sending a signal to the driver, then there needs to be proving to ensure that the intending passenger knows the driver receives the message.

All problems for which there are a plethora of solutions, I suspect. As well as the 'platform button(s)' you could have 'text to stop', QR codes on posters etc...

And surely the cost benefits of not slowing down (brake wear) and accelerating again (fuel consumption) at every request stop, instead zooming through at full line speed, could be substantial?

 

[Johncleesefan]

Sounds like a headache. More tech to fail or miss communicate. More stres and variation for the driver having to alter his stopping pattern for every journey

 

[Spartacus]

Not long before a 'driver missed his AWS reacting to a spurious passenger stop request message' report?

Anything involving texting can't be called reliable in this instance due to the possibility of the passenger not having a phone, coverage, credit, battery, the network being down, delays in sending. You'd also find kids would just keep texting the number all day long if they've got free texts, resulting in numerous trains stopping for no passengers. I doubt the cost savings would be much when compared to the cost of implementing, monitoring and repeatedly repairing such systems.

 

[Llanigraham]

All problems for which there are a plethora of solutions, I suspect. As well as the 'platform button(s)' you could have 'text to stop', QR codes on posters etc...

And surely the cost benefits of not slowing down (brake wear) and accelerating again (fuel consumption) at every request stop, instead zooming through at full line speed, could be substantial?

Except that drivers/guards don't have the facilities to receive most of those notifications, and most would be seen as a driver distraction.

I suggest you are looking at solutions to problems that don't really exist.

 

[Martin S Heron]

Had an experience on bustitution once, the boat train from Fishguard Harbour to Cardiff. As we boarded the bus driver asked what station we were going to, all of us (less than 10) were going to Cardiff for onward connections - so he drove straight to Cardiff ignoring all the intermediate stations! I just hope there was noone at somewhere like Llanelli or Carmarthen waiting for a replacement bus service that never came.

 

[kdoganorak]

Probably a mistake on somebody's part but these things happen.

A guard told me the only time they can skip stations is if it is a set down only call and the guard has made sure nobody wants to get off. This is usually late night trains which might be replaced by buses due to engineering works.

Would it count as a fail to call if the train stopped but the doors were not released? Happened to me (and about 50 others) one morning at Farringdon. Driver apologised as we approached St Pancras and said something along the lines of 'don't know what happened there'.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

In 1969, I was unable to open the door of a loco hauled Doncaster - Gainsborough - "don't know where" train at Lea Road and was half way out of the door window when the guard spotted me. He let me out, but only after giving me a b******g.

I often wonder if it is legitimate to pull the chord if you are unable to get off a train before it sets off due to either overcrowding or faulty doors?

I remember our German teacher doing this in the Federal Republic in 1966. He had failed to notice that we had stopped at our desired little station in the middle of nowhere as we were at the back of the train which was so long that he thought we were held up at signals. He also got a b******g but not a fine.

 

[GB]

I remember working Frinton-on-Sea level crossing on multiple occassions. The last train up from Thorpe-Le-Soken was booked to terminate at Walton-on-the-Naze then run back ECS to Clacton. Frequently you would hear a toot of the horn, look out to see the white lights turn red...that was your signal to open the gates up to road traffic as the train wasn't going any further.

I know the gates are gone but not sure if that still happens.

 

[Dougal2345]

Except that drivers/guards don't have the facilities to receive most of those notifications, and most would be seen as a driver distraction.

I suggest you are looking at solutions to problems that don't really exist.

Well admittedly it's not a 'problem' I've ever seen discussed, but...

I'm sure we can all agree that when you've got 120 tonnes (say) of train, cruising at (say) 70mph, then bringing it to a halt and then getting it up to speed again when there is no reason to do so (because no-one wants to embark or disembark) is not a good thing, from the point of view both of wear and tear, and fuel costs...

Stopping this happening using relatively cheap modern communications technology might seem to be a quick win.

I recall once reading a newspaper article that had the estimated financial cost of the brake-wear when bringing an HST to a halt. Unfortunately I can't remember the figure now

But if it doesn't happen now, I can definitely see it happening when driverless trains come along... I boldly foresee that small stations on all lines will become request stops!

 

[bb21]

Would it count as a fail to call if the train stopped but the doors were not released? Happened to me (and about 50 others) one morning at Farringdon. Driver apologised as we approached St Pancras and said something along the lines of 'don't know what happened there'.

Yes if all doors failed to release.

 

[otomous]

Yes if all doors failed to release.

Not if the doors did not release but the driver was unaware of it

 

[wingsoveryorks]

If it is booked to call, it stops, passengers or no passengers, and the doors are released. That way it shows on the downloads and you can't be accused of not stopping.

All about covering your ass innit.

 

[AM9]

... I often wonder if it is legitimate to pull the chord if you are unable to get off a train before it sets off due to either overcrowding or faulty doors? ...

I've never seen a definitive answer to this question including here on RUK. I know that they are for 'Emergency Use Only' but one passenger's emergency need to alight can trump many other passengers' and the TOC's slight inconvenience.
What happens in other countries is not relevant here.

 

[colchesterken]

I dont think things were so strict in BR days, In the late 60 s I used to commute to Forest Gate, Some locals were Ilford only. several times the drive rushed past Forest Gate and stopped at Manor Park no PAS on the 306 s so just had to get off and cross over for the next train back. they were every 20 mins then, so late home for tea!
I used to think it was unhelpful not to stop one of the Southenders to pick up passengers
If they were as hot on such things the drivers would have taken more care

 

[Spartacus]

Would it count as a fail to call if the train stopped but the doors were not released? Happened to me (and about 50 others) one morning at Farringdon. Driver apologised as we approached St Pancras and said something along the lines of 'don't know what happened there'.

Class 700?

 

[Spartacus]

Had an experience on bustitution once, the boat train from Fishguard Harbour to Cardiff. As we boarded the bus driver asked what station we were going to, all of us (less than 10) were going to Cardiff for onward connections - so he drove straight to Cardiff ignoring all the intermediate stations! I just hope there was noone at somewhere like Llanelli or Carmarthen waiting for a replacement bus service that never came.

I've been on the receiving end of something like that, last train from Long Buckby replaced by a bus due to engineering, but the driver presumably deviced to save himself some time by going straight up the M1. It led to a very hairy taxi ride in thick fog to make the train to New Street from Rugby!

 

[swrailuser]

Try the Line to Barnstaple as an example it works as all but Crediton and Eggesford are request stops, unless the train is booked as a fast and does not stop for requests this makes about a 15 minute difference on the Journey