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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by AventraFlex, 26 May 2018.
Very sensible I agree, just... unusual.
I don't think things can get any worse than they have been over the last 6 weeks. Hopefully from here on in there are gradual improvements.
Hopefully not, but the 769s are already running 12 months late (originally due c.May 2018, now due in service c. May 2019), the entire 150/153 fleet needs a major PRM refit and the 29 remaining pacers need to be scrapped in 54 weeks time. Passenger numbers are going to continue to grow and the squeeze is going to continue - the fleet is far too finely balanced and it's only going to take one incident for it all to go pear shaped (again).
On a slightly side note I see The Welsh Government is in full on it was London's fault mode...
An all too predictable response - its the standard narrative for everything - they would make the same conclusion of "its Westminster's fault" for anything from a decline in Tiddlewink Production in Treherbert to Spring arriving late in the Vale of Clwyd! Hopefully this Carwynite tactic of intense tedium disappears with him.
Next Autumn should in theory be better in that-
The 769's and ex GWR 153's should be floating around to give PRM cover /extra few units.
The 150's will have WSP fitted.
However another storm event this winter with units away for PRM mods.....and i don't suppose fitting WSP to the 150's is quick 5 minute pit stop either.
We're going to have to hope that those "quite old trains" that James Price mentioned that TfW are looking to bring in for 9 or 10 months from February ish next year to provide a temporary capacity boost / overcrowding relief whilst all the mods to the 150s and 158s are happening, become available.
One hopes this is not a metaphor for Welsh Transport!
They will be 2 coach 144s. Potentially they could be Greater Anglia's sprinters when they go off lease but if they need PRM mods it would be expensive for a short lease. My bet is on Valley lines closing for tram train conversion on 1st January 2020.
That would be politically explosive and politically unacceptable, and was ruled out by James Price at his evidence in the Senedd last week. We're more likely to see derogations for 143s/144s and 150s.
Don't forget the Rhymney and Coryton lines are staying as HR and nothing is being done to the Penarth, Barry and VoG lines.
Have you got evidence regarding 144s ? Until I see anything definite from a reliable source, I'm treating it as a rumour that originated in Northern land and spread. The ones referred to are 769s. Could happen, though.
His exact words were:
Note: "over and above anything in the contract", so this isn't referring to the original 769s. It's also nothing that's already committed to (such as the follow-on order of additional 769s). But while it may dovetail with rumours of short-term Pacers from Northern-land, nothing at all is confirmed.
Surely at this stage if additional trains could be provided that alleviated the overcrowding, people really wouldn’t care what type they were, in the knowledge that they were a stopgap measure?
He's obviously talking about freed up Northern Pacers or LHCS. What else could these "quite old trains" that will be compatible with the Welsh network be?
The timing of these trains becoming available from February/March means he's talking about Northern Pacers. He just didn't want to use the 'P' word in public.
Exactly. And no one will care if they are riding a Pacer in November 2019 or March 2020. The experience of this autumn shows that people just want a seat on a train, any train. Personally I think the 150s and Pacers should get derrogations until January 2021 as it's obvious condensing the PRM work for 150s into 11 months will cause unacceptable disruption and overcrowding for passengers.
By my estimations January 2021 is not a push-back far enough, more like anything from mid-2021 to January 2022 - again this is all theoretical: all 24 158s will be modified by August 2019, the first 8 150s will be modified by December 2019, and past that point it will be delayed work (fineable), with 30 150s modified by December 2020 and all 36 150s modified by March 2021. If the ex-ATW 153s are being modified then all 8 will be done by July 2021.
If the ex-GWR 153s aren't already modified (I believe they're the blue FGW livery ones so probably not) then all 5 of those will be modified by September/October 2021. Should the Mark 4 rakes not already be modified then all 3 will be done by December 2021.
Interesting to hear from TfW that "quite old" trains may be brought in during 2019. I bet they will be ppp-Pacers!
The referenced quote consists of 2 sentences which were part of a much longer and more comprehensive and balanced discussion than this suggests. It was a tiny fragment of a 1 hour 5 minute question and answer session about tfwrail for AM's as the final agenda item in the economy and infrastructure committee meeting on Wed. last. I watched all of it (sad I know), and there was a lot more detail and balance to it than this one brief but 'politically juicy' soundbite suggests.
http://record.assembly.wales/Committee/5150 11:30 - 12:35
The Anglia 156s have all PRM mods done. The train crew would need a conversion course but they'd be quite good for Maesteg to Cheltenham and maybe the Ebbw Vale line.
I wondered what was happening with the GA class 156s if nobody else wants them I don't see why tfw don't try and grab them
Just as a reminder this is the plan as announced by Keolis:-
Some recent posters could do with reading it!
I'd bet on Northern.
Really? Northern have their fleet plan in place, with 5 extra 156s arriving from ScotRail. I think East Mids would be more likely given the number of 153s they have that need PRM work.
They even have WSP fitted and the livery isn't too far off...
But the Ebbw Vale and Maestegs are going to be 170s
The TfW 170s won't be a thing until late 2019 though... Wouldn't the 156s be suitable for other routes...? I'm guessing the end doors are the problem...
The Traction Plan has been published in the link in Post #1098 and does not include 156s.
Oh, the one from ages ago that I already read... It doesn't include more Pacers either, but I think you and Gareth have been mistaken into thinking that it's some recent document - it's literally the normal planned fleet that was decided on like 6 months ago when the presentation was actually presented. Of course the temporary trains (whether Northern Pacers or Greater Anglia 156s or otherwise) aren't going to be in that!!! Are you two missing the point that James Price said (about 6 months more recently than that presentation) that extra "quite old" trains are being looked at to be brought in temporarily during 2019...?
I think that the old trains referred to are the 769s or Northern 144s but the latter may be a rumour
Aren't the 769s entering service anyway...? Meaning that any "quite old" extra trains could be anything rumoured - Northern 144s, GA 156s or otherwise...? And are you clear now that that presentation document that was linked to is around 6 months old and has nothing to do with the recently announced "quite old extra trains being looked into" whatsoever...?
The only place that TfW have been sniffing around is an extra batch of 769's everything else is rumour/ speculation.
Are you basing that on that 6 month old presentation document that you seem to still think is new again...? Are you not getting it?! The extra 4x 769s have already been ordered and I believe they're part of the May stock introduction along with the 5x 769s ordered under ATW and the 5x ex-GWR (FGW) 153s, so I'm taking "quite old extra trains looking into being leased from February" to mean "units of rumoured class(es) introduced into temporary service three months sooner"... I still don't get why a 6 month old presentation document was linked to when it has nothing to do with the much more recent "quite old extra trains looking into being leased" said by James Price in the recent meeting.