Keolis Amey Wales - Future Rolling Stock

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by AventraFlex, 26 May 2018.

  1. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Established Member

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    For the sake of completeness, the decision is just whether or not to grant planning permission for the new motorway. Carwyn could have decided that it wouldn't be built as currently specified but he couldn't decide that it would be built.
     
  2. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

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    I have to ask how often you use this service?
    Have you spoken to the Cambrian passengers and found out what they want?
    What units do you expect them to get on to at Shrewsbury?
    Are you going to provide more WM units to cover the decreased service?
    How many of those WM services go through to the airport?
    I can assure you that the ability to travel to Birmingham and the airport/NEC without changing is very popular and very practical, especially if you have buggies or luggage. Having to get off and lug stuff across the platform, especially in the winter, is not the most pleasant of experiences. And if you have to change at New St yo certainly will be required to climb stairs.
    And why is splitting units a joke? It seems to work well, with few if any problems and takes no time to do.
     
  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I don't agree. It makes sense to give the Cambrian mainline a direct service to the big city that most people want to go to (Birmingham) with a connection to the even bigger city that a lot of them do too (London).

    If I was to simplify the Cambrian, I'd go for an hourly 4-car service from Birmingham International to Aberystwyth, with the Coast being a connection from Machynlleth[1], possibly even using something like a 3-car Class 230 or two (with an interior specifically designed for good bicycle and luggage capacity). A Coast portion is a nice idea (it's very simple so far as portion working goes), but it would require a 6-car set and there aren't enough units.

    The Marches could be a self-contained Chester-Shrewsbury 2-car shuttle as the demands there are far more local in nature. From the North Wales Coast, the main demand is for Chester, Liverpool and Manchester (and on to London) - the old through North Wales Coast to Brum LHCS was always very quiet on the Crewe-Brum leg.

    [1] Timed to depart after the Aber, and arrive before the Aber in the other direction, so a cross platform connection at Dyfi is also possible to avoid the bridge at Mach if anyone wants.
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2018
  4. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Coast Stakeholders have ensured 4/5 through trains are to continue so this is a non starter and also the issue of having a homogeneous fleet operate the Cambrian (ETCS) needs to be factored in.
     
  5. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Yes but at least it seems that he will not be trying to leave a huge road scheme with planning permission as a parting present. Of course the alternative interpretation is that the Inspector has not agreed with Welsh Government and "leaving it for his successor" is designed to save face!
     
  6. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    You'd be surprised how much of the traffic is for Birmingham New St/International certainly from the Upper Severn Valley
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The ETCS is an effing nuisance and could do with being replaced with something much simpler actually geared towards that kind of line.
     
  8. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Established Member

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    I hadn't considered that but wouldn't disagree!

    But we digress. Back to topic.
     
  9. Cambrian359

    Cambrian359 Member

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    So the Cambrian line units can be pulled away to support other parts of Wales when needed but when the Cambrian line needs support it will be tough luck! Due to ETCS (Or a bus!)

    Similar to what I was saying in another topic somewhere,north and mid Wales units will be able to be pulled to help South Wales when needed but the dedicated South Wales fleets won’t be returning the favour when needed!
    so it will always be mid/north wales/England feeling the pinch with any future shortages (for the variety of reasons shortages occur )
     
  10. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    To a limit: At the moment North Wales 150s can be sent down south to help the Taff Valleys, but the new Civity stock will be too long(?) to run beyond Radyr. They could end up supplementing the Flirts, though.

    On a more positive note, with three loco-hauled rakes (one spare) there should be scope for using two of them for rugby crowd-busting, rather than just the one as is done now. I'd expect the Holyhead rake to operate as now (south for the match, north again after), but the Cardiff-based one could do any number of workings on the SWML if desired.
     
  11. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    First 769 is due to arrive in February according to today's railways UK magazine. If these work out of the box they can't come soon enough especially on the rhymney line to free up pacers and 150s to provide extra capacity elsewhere
     
  12. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    The magazine says that the first five 769s are due to be delivered in February for trials on the Rhymney line and staff training, ready for introduction into service in May next year.
     
  13. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    If the Cambrian to West Midlands service was self contained then you would need (to have 5 through trains to Pwllheli, 4 car between Shrewsbury and West Midlands apart from very early/ late and a peak strengthener for West Midlands each way-) 2 diagrams starting in Pwllheli, 5 diagrams starting @ Machynlleth and 8 at Shrewsbury. That's 15 diagrams, assuming availability of 18 for the 21 etcs Civitys there's still 3 units left over. Which should in theory be enough to cover a 2 hurly Shrewsbury to Holyhead turn. Thought the capacity increase away from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth is minimal if at all.
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2018
  14. tomuk

    tomuk Member

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    Well after 15 years of a no growth franchise it sounds a little disappointing. I would have liked to have seen most if not all Shrewsbury to Birmingham as six cars east of Shrewsbury. The extra WMT service is only semi-fast and potentially will go via Bescot so the TfW service is key for Shrewsbury.
     
  15. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    You do have the option of strengthening between Shrewsbury and BHM InTL with non etcs fitted units.
     
  16. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    It doesn't have to be homogenous. It just needs to be ETCS fitted. Post introduction of the CAF sets, there would be nothing to stop some 158s being retained to work the coast, for example.
     
  17. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    TfW Rail Twitter are sending out Route Factsheets with the improvement plans on them.

    Apologies if these aren't appearing properly im working on it!

    Ive got hold of the one for Shrewsbury to Birmingham.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    They also have a seating/total capacity graphic for the current and future type of rolling stock.

    [​IMG]

    The peak times / services are not defined though its clear that they cover 2 services each way. A c 1000 total capacity in the current AM peak corresponds with 5 Class 158's arriving (the 0829 into New St is booked 6 car normally). (5 x 199 = 995 total) (5 x 140 =700 seats)

    The lower capacity in the current evening peak is equivalent to 4 Class 158's departing. (4 x 199 = 796 Total) (4 x 140seats = 560 seats)

    An extra 158 will be available for evening peak from December 2019 bringing AM and PM the same.

    Then note whilst "total capacity" goes up in Dec 22 once the Civitys arrive seating capacity actually goes down especially in AM peak (by c100!)

    Civitys would appear to be 5 x 2 car in AM peak. c 600 seats on graph is equal to 5 x 120 seats and just over 1000 total capacity is equal to 2 x 202 = 1010.
    PM peak has 4 x 2 car and 1 x 3 car operating. (4 x 120 seats plus 196 seats is 676 seats) & (4 x 202 total plus 316 total is 1124 total).


    upload_2018-12-5_19-17-15.png

    upload_2018-12-5_19-17-32.png
     
  18. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    Do you have the links to these tweets cos I can't find them on the @tfwrail or @transport_wales twitter accounts?
     
  19. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    The website makes pretty much no mention of the new fleet at all, oddly enough. You'd have thought they'd want to make a big deal out of finally receiving new rolling stock.
     
  20. PaulHarding150

    PaulHarding150 Member

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    They don’t have any new or extra trains. If I were them I’d wait until they arrive and driver training starts.

    Cascaded stock should be in service from May 2019 and the first new build stock from 2021.
     
  21. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    They sent them as a photo in a message to my Twitter account - i've had to screen shot them in end. I asked for AYW-BHI.
     
  22. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    Class 158 air-conditioning "upgraded in 2019" , eh? I wonder what they've got planned...
     
  23. tomuk

    tomuk Member

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    What a complete disgrace. After 20 years of a franchise which was condemned by all there will be less capacity between Shrewsbury and Birmingham.
    It could be potentially worse than the information Gareth has provided as the 'extra' WMT tph already runs during the peak so there as no more capacity there and WMT are replacing the 170s with their own Civities.
    A big thank you to Ken Skates I will now have more 'World Class' space to stand in when travelling home from Birmingham. And is it is now under control of the WG I can do nothing about it.
     
  24. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    Thanks for those. I'd like to see if there are any bicycle spaces on the Metro tram-trains. Currently it's 2 spaces per 150, up to 4 per 142/143 (although not full size spaces). Will that box even be ticked on the Metro tram-trains?
     
  25. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Aren’t they (possibly with some GWR units) the only 158s with the original aircon, rather than the replacement Liebherr system? The replacement system is better, but - and operators please note - needs to be maintained properly.
     
  26. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Can't speak for what other fleets use but the TfW 158s do indeed use the original Ebac system, with the consequential dismal reliability that brings.

    I must say that so far I've been very impressed with TfW's efforts to improve things after so many years of being stagnant under Arriva. There are quite a few things going on, some bigger then others, that show they are prepared to get stuck in and try and fix problems.
     
  27. CambrianCoast

    CambrianCoast Member

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    Good to hear they’re getting stuck in with improvements. Any further details on what’s going on?
     
  28. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Doesn't stop other operators bellowing about their new stock. Anglia have had their 'new trains from 2019' in their old trains (including the newly refurbished ones) for many months now, and there's probably about a full year to go before we see them in regular service yet.
     
  29. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    TfW have said from the start of their franchise that they want to "manage expectations" . Plus, in their case, the first "new" stock they'll receive will be cascaded old stock from elsewhere (153, 230, 769). The new-build stuff won't be arriving until 2021.
     
  30. PaulHarding150

    PaulHarding150 Member

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    Quite, I think it's very wise that there aren't posters at every station with artists impressions of what's coming in five years time (assuming no delay), TfW do need to manage expectations because things are going to get a lot worse before they get better in terms of overcrowding.
     

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