LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

[hwl]

I can't remember if GEC and Alstom had merged at that point or not. And at this time of night..apologies that I am too tired to Google it Lol

Designed by GEC, early units built by GEC, later ones by GEC-Alstom but all with GEC kit.

Agree with 43096's comment that the French only ever win

 

[hwl]

So one wonders, if they're taking that action, why the modifications to the trains are still necessary. It can't be a cover-all in case they send them elsewhere as otherwise I'd expect the GWR units to be receiving the same modifications. A "we'll do it both ways so we'll have the problem fixed by the time whichever method finishes first is done" approach seems very unlikely. Are both measures needed?

The GW units haven't had full sign off yet hence they'll probably get the mods in time

 

[Mag_seven]

The GW units haven't had full sign off yet

What bits have not been fully signed off?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Which if you think about it, was never going to happen. Class 91 was built by GEC-Alsthom. TGV built by GEC-Alsthom. Only going to be one winner in a joint-venture involving a French organisation.

But the TMSTs (373s) had GEC-designed electrics, made in Preston like the class 91s electrics (and that of the WCML Pendolinos).
It didn't seem to find its way onto other TGV derivatives though.
TMST also had other (French) suppliers involved in the consortium as well, mostly now in the Alstom camp.

 

[greyman42]

I noticed from a performance perspective that LNER are selling the improved acceleration characteristics and future 140 miles per hour potential of these trains.

So will there be any benefit to the passenger with the improved acceleration while the trains are still running at 125mph max?

 

[Railperf]

So will there be any benefit to the passenger with the improved acceleration while the trains are still running at 125mph max?

It looks like a time gain of 1 minute per station stop and maybe a little extra en-route due to the better acceleration at higher speeds after slowing down for lower speed limits. Of course between them LNER and Network Rail will have to agree a timetable that can take advantage of these potential time gains while fitting around other services that use the line. I guess the initial services will still run to existing schedules in case the sets have to be replaced at short notice by HSTs or Class 91's.

 

[FQTV]

It looks like a time gain of 1 minute per station stop and maybe a little extra en-route due to the better acceleration at higher speeds after slowing down for lower speed limits. Of course between them LNER and Network Rail will have to agree a timetable that can take advantage of these potential time gains while fitting around other services that use the line. I guess the initial services will still run to existing schedules in case the sets have to be replaced at short notice by HSTs or Class 91's.

I wonder if there may also be some other gains, for example Southbound services stopping at Durham. It's noticeable that Voyagers and 185s can positively rocket out and up the bank from a standing start, whereas Class 91s are very notably slower.

Indeed, in leaf fall season (if that's taken into account at all), a 91 can still be at little more than a fast walking pace with the sanders blowing like crazy by the time it has reaches the end of the platform - ie about 250m from starting.

 

[class387]

Yes that's felt quite, er, brave I'd have to say when I first saw them making a big thing of it. Initially in the material I saw it was referred to as "ergonomically designed" which is fair enough as they are but in the breath it went on to go about how their more comfortable. Which feels a somewhat risky statement to make...

I disagree that the IEP seats are ergonomically designed. The 'ironing board' seats are definitely very ergonomic and force you to sit in a good posture, which the IEP seats don't support my lower back properly so force me to slouch.

 

[Railperf]

I wonder if there may also be some other gains, for example Southbound services stopping at Durham. It's noticeable that Voyagers and 185s can positively rocket out and up the bank from a standing start, whereas Class 91s are very notably slower.

Indeed, in leaf fall season (if that's taken into account at all), a 91 can still be at little more than a fast walking pace with the sanders blowing like crazy by the time it has reaches the end of the platform - ie about 250m from starting.

I'm not sure under what conditions the sectional running times are worked out, but it seems likely to be based on what a train can achieve in good dry conditions. Class 90's running times on the GEML for instance do not take into account how poorly class 90's perform on a greasy rail 'off the line'. I guess it is the same for 91's on the ECML. So any problems accelerating have to be absorbed into existing engineering / performance / recovery time allowances. And my experiences of 90's in wet weather is that they simply lose more and more time.
So an 800 - based on information received so far - sounds far more sure footted in wet and dry conditions than a 91 - and hopefully will provide a more reliable performance in wet and dry conditions working to the current timetable and any future accelerated timings.

 

[rich-leeds]

So, a combination of information in Roger Ford's column in the December issue of Modern Railways, and the tweet linked below, appears to confirm that the solution to the electromagnetic interference issues is modifications to both the track and trains. 270 isolating surge protection units are due to be fitted to the track-side equipment over the next month. The solution for the trains is to add copper coil 'chokes' to each powered vehicle on the 80x trains, at an additional weight of 750kg each. https://twitter.com/Captain_Deltic/status/1065558483230179328

 

[DanNCL]

Stop boards for the 80x units have gone up at Newcastle:

 

[chuff chuff]

There up in Scotland as well.

 

[hexagon789]

There up in Scotland as well.

Kirkcaldly has some up.

 

[The Lad]

There are a few in York, placed beyond the bufferstops!

 

[59CosG95]

800111 made its maiden (AFAIK) trip out on the mainline today, in new LNER colours. Worth mentioning that, on this unit, the "AZUMA" branding appears to be on the driving cars only. (I only had a chance to check one side of the 1st Class end here at Peterborough, but I'm sure the work on the side nearest the camera is reciprocated on the other side)

 

[westv]

When the first set finally comes into operation, what will happen to seat reservations? Presumably the HST and Azuma seat numbers won't match up.

 

[gsnedders]

When the first set finally comes into operation, what will happen to seat reservations? Presumably the HST and Azuma seat numbers won't match up.

Services will be booked as either HST, Mk4, or IET with appropriate seat reservations. As is already the case, a last minute substitution will likely lead to there being no reservations (especially given on both HST and Mk4 that means running through with them all printed out!).

 

[Meerkat]

Really not impressed with that rather insipid livery.
Deserves something more dramatic and faster looking

 

[Wst71Pa2]

There up in Scotland as well.

And the one at P5 Aberdeen is "After" the buffer stop

 

[Waverleystu]

Will the 9 car 800’s get used for KX-Aberdeen services?

 

[samuelmorris]

That was the plan, last I looked (and Inverness too, plus of course they can substitute for 801s as required).

 

[FQTV]

800111 made its maiden (AFAIK) trip out on the mainline today, in new LNER colours. View attachment 56010Worth mentioning that, on this unit, the "AZUMA" branding appears to be on the driving cars only. (I only had a chance to check one side of the 1st Class end here at Peterborough, but I'm sure the work on the side nearest the camera is reciprocated on the other side)

That really is, technically, a superb picture.

 

[59CosG95]

That really is, technically, a superb picture.

Thank you very much! Credit's due to Samsung in all honesty, their Galaxy S8 camera is a superb bit of kit - though I much prefer a DSLR!

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[Spur365]

Pictures are out internally of the seats and interiors. Very much red! I’m sure pics will leak soon...

 

[mullac30]

Pictures are out internally of the seats and interiors. Very much red! I’m sure pics will leak soon...

There's already a VR video on the LNER website showing the revised interior.

 

[Jonny]

Really not impressed with that rather insipid livery.
Deserves something more dramatic and faster looking

That really is, technically, a superb picture.

Seconded about the quality of the picture. Unfortunately I can't help thinking that the white area looks a little like a male gamete

 

[Jonny]

Oh, and what about the ^ladder^ issue with the possibility of climbing and subsequent electrocution?

 

[SC43090]

Services will be booked as either HST, Mk4, or IET with appropriate seat reservations. As is already the case, a last minute substitution will likely lead to there being no reservations (especially given on both HST and Mk4 that means running through with them all printed out!).

LNER no longer do paper seat reservations......

SC 43090

 

[greyman42]

Oh, and what about the ^ladder^ issue with the possibility of climbing and subsequent electrocution?

I don't think it is an issue. There is no evidence to suggest that people will be climbing the 'ladder'.