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LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)
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The 5Q6/8 paths highly doubt will run. They didnt yesterday. Also no units were at Merchaht Park which is where the paths originate from.
Just to narrow things down. 800111 was on the 5Q4x circuit from Newcastle to Edinburgh on Tuesday on electric mode.
You saw 800111, it would be 801111 potentially on test. Two different classes 800 and 801.
59CosG95
Established Member
5Q06 through 5Q08 have now been cancelled, with a VSTP "3Q06" running straight from Peterborough to Donny Carr in place of 5Q06.
It was definitely 800111.
Windows look very small. Seats obviously aren't aligned with windows. There aren't 69 formations compared to 45 as is being touted. There are four extra formations when one allows for the fact that there are half size five coach formations.
I guarantee that they will be much less comfier than the mk4 stock. They are squeezing in more people into fewer carriages. Ergo less leg room.
They won't be any faster than current rolling stock. Although journey times have been artificially inflated over the years as they have done with the gwr.
Down there they are saying that some journeys between London and Wales and Bristol are 15 minutes faster when in reality they are slower than times from 92. I have the 92 timetables.
The Hitachi trains are very late in delivery. How much have Hitachi been fined? I guarantee its zero
So we have new trains slower than trains from 1991. Less comfort and more people squeezed into less coaches
Why did we bother? Hitachi pay well for their dot privileges. Once again. He who pays the piper
Better trains mean more seats more comfort and faster journeys.
Not everyone has a short memory
I guarantee that they will be much less comfier than the mk4 stock. They are squeezing in more people into fewer carriages. Ergo less leg room.
They won't be any faster than current rolling stock. Although journey times have been artificially inflated over the years as they have done with the gwr.
Down there they are saying that some journeys between London and Wales and Bristol are 15 minutes faster when in reality they are slower than times from 92. I have the 92 timetables.
The Hitachi trains are very late in delivery. How much have Hitachi been fined? I guarantee its zero
So we have new trains slower than trains from 1991. Less comfort and more people squeezed into less coaches
Why did we bother? Hitachi pay well for their dot privileges. Once again. He who pays the piper
Better trains mean more seats more comfort and faster journeys.
Not everyone has a short memory
I'm sure others will be along to destroy some of the other points of your rant. Let's start with this one though, they actually have more leg room.
Not disputing that. You commented against my reply to what was seen on test outside Hitachis factory. I stated 801109, 111 or 112.
You stated to narrow it down you saw 800111 at Newcastle.
801/1s are 5 car, what you saw was a 9 car.
The IEP is actually faster on electric than both the IC 125 and 225 as the power is much more equally distributed. Admittedly Diesel acceleration is less but this should be negated by the ability to run with electric timings for most of their journey. They might actually deliver faster journey times on the Highland Cheiftan as they will be able to run on electric all the way to Dunblane.
cactustwirly
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Electric is a lot faster than a 91!
They have very good legroom, most of the seats have good window alignment, and of course they have a much greater capacity than a 91 or HST
Railperf
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Yes, the 800's save at least a minute on station to station run times based on the superior acceleration - but presuming the braking is similar. Potentially reduced dwell times at smaller stations, but that would depend on what is timetabled and the passenger load on a given day.
Depending on the remaining diesel sections - it may well be that the 800's can maintain gross HST timings, but with a reduced ability to recover from delays as they do not have the same grunt over 40mph in diesel mode. Does anyone know whether the LNER versions are going to remain at the reduced diesel engine output setting of 750hp setting compared to GWR's 800's which start out at 940hp but ramp back to 750 later on in the speed range?
absolutelymilk
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There are 302 +130 = 432 coaches currently, versus 43*9+22*5 = 387 + 110 = 497 coaches which means a significant uplift in capacity, especially as quicker acceleration and the same top speed means they will be able to operate more services, and they are 26m coaches rather than 23m currently.
xotGD
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800201 just rolled into Doncaster with the destination display "Harrogate".
hexagon789
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Think they can brake at 10%g full service versus 9%g for a 125 or 225. Plus with full EP control, application and especially release of the brakes will be faster.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97183/2019/04/04/advanced
19:24 Doncaster IEP depot - Harrogate.
43096
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Leg room is only a part of comfort. I do not believe that the seats will be magically transformed in comfort compared with the GWR. They may be marginally better, but that makes them significantly worse than a Mark 4 and a severe downgrade compared to an IC70.
Looking at actual times, the last time I used an HST between Leeds and Harrogate we passed Horsforth in under seven minutes. Three minutes longer albeit coming to a stop at Horsforth is not exactly an improvement. Even a Pacer can do it in eleven minutes with two stops at Burley Park and Headingley.
Have you even been on board on 80x? It doesn't sound like it from the comment that 'windows look very small' and 'down there'. Try sitting in an 80x and then get on a Pendolino and tell us the windows of the 80x are small.
Seats in second/standard class haven't been aligned with windows on UK intercity trains since the first HSTs appeared - surely your long memory would recall that.
Guess what, the 69 sets, mixing nine-car and five sets, will not be used in exactly the same ways as the 45 long formations.
Seat comfort is an entirely subjective matter, as countless threads on this forum, including this one, prove over and over again.
Fewer carriages? I'd suggest you get your calculator out and do some sums.
The new coaches are three metres longer, so people are not being squeezed in. Before the GWR sets appeared, the usual suspects kept telling us here that there would be less legroom. When they entered service, that all stopped. I wonder why?
They may not have a higher top speed but they accelerate a lot more rapidly, especially running on 25kv. Thus far there have been no journey time changes on GWR, with IETs still running to a timetable designed for HSTs. That journey times will be reduced from current ones once a proper IET timetable starts is pretty obvious to anyone who spends much time on GWR services, with the amount of time IETs now sit at stations waiting for departure time on many journeys as a result of arriving early at intermediate stops.
So you've got the 1992 timetables. The world and the railways have moved on a bit since then. Journey times have changed for all sorts of reasons, not least the sheer number of extra people travelling by train that has required frequencies and calling patterns to change, efforts to make the most efficient use of the two-track sections of the ECML, not least at Welwyn, etc, etc.
The Hitachi trains are rather less late in delivery than most other new rolling stock - as was pointed out by Modern Railways a few months back. If it were not for the need to make modifications as a result of the signalling interference issues on the ECML - for which Network Rail has to take some of the blame - the East Coast sets would probably have been in traffic some months ago. If the GW electrification work had been completed to schedule and some signal equipment interference issues fixed sooner, allowing GWR to train its drivers, IET services out of Paddington would have started in the summer of 2017, not October that year.
All GWR's sets have now been delivered, with the last nine-car 802 turning up this week, pretty much bang on the planned schedule when they were ordered.
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59CosG95
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Thanks for the gen as always, @JamesGar. The question remains - what could this be? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K01565/2019/04/05/advanced (5Q86 Doncaster Carr to Bounds Green)
And also this: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97179/2019/04/05/advanced (5Q96 Heaton to Bounds Green)
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Correct. It is a staff special/training run. Carrying staff and family whilst train crew familiarise them selves with the train.
leo knight
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and Skipton being the rear 5 coaches. Saw it at Doncaster as I were on the 1803 kx - skipton.
xotGD
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We were on the same train!
Railperf
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Demonstrating the superior acceleration of an 800 is in a different league to Class 91 and HSTs ...
BRX
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Not arguing with the premise but I'm not sure what that video demonstrates as it doesn't give anything to compare with!
TBSchenker
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This is better
samuelmorris
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I'm pretty sure that GWR one was debunked wasn't it? I seem to recall people saying the HST departure was at a far lower power setting than usually used.
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