LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by snowball, 28 Sep 2018.

  1. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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  2. westv

    westv Established Member

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    I don't think it's anything tp do with weight. I'm 13 stone and 6' and I find the standard seats uncomfortable. As I said earlier in the thread, they are too upright and too hard.
     
  3. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    Yes, but a short formed service may well be worse for me than a cancelled one.

    Here's the choice:

    - waiting an hour for the next service, getting a seat and getting on with my work, and claiming my money back.

    - or standing up between Newcastle and King's Cross and achieving nothing with an on time arrival.

    You can see why I might not be happy at the sight of a five coach train.

    As I said, it's entirely my personal view as a passenger. I understand the background to why these things were built, and you can't have excess capacity running around all over the place, but I suspect that my own travel experience won't be improved by them.
     
  4. 3973EXL

    3973EXL Member

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    5X50/5Q50 Eastleigh - Acton - Ferme Park
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  5. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    It compares unfavourably in that at least some of the infrastructure is capable of accommodating a 10/IEP length, instead being used by 5-car and 9-car trains which don't make full use of the path. If traffic to these locations can't support a full-length train then perhaps they shouldn't be served, although in reality there's plenty of places across the country where we see long trains running comparatively empty for parts of a journey.

    The performance risk from splitting and joining is obvious - two trains and two crews having to match up at a specific time, which works well when things are running smoothly, but doesn't when there's things going on. Plymouth is a rather less busy station than Leeds. We've already seen LNwR's attempt at splitting/joining at New Street and it's hardly been a resounding success.
     
  6. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    Since when has it been a compulsory requirement for a train to 'make full use of a path'? If we take that tack, then that's Hull Trains and Grand Central straight out of the window on the ECML, followed by the two-hourly LNER service to Lincoln and any charters in and out of Kings Cross, since they can't make 125mph.

    The Huddersfield and Middlesbrough LNER services are not envisaged to start running for a couple of years anyway and any splitting or joining at Leeds would not be taking place during the very busiest times of the day - a departure from Huddersfield would be timed early enough to reach London in good time for a day's business there (if combined with the Skipton-London train, that is allowed 9 minutes to reverse already and is on its way south at 07.40) and a return working would be unlikely to get anywhere near Leeds before 19.00 and probably later than that.

    There is no suggestion whatever the practice would be attempted all day, every day, is there? The approach would presumably resemble what GWR is doing when it comes to in-service splits and joins of IET services - a limited amount in a limited number of places.
     
  7. A7rud

    A7rud Member

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    Can anyone please tell me which Azumas are stabled in Tyne Yard today?
     
  8. 3973EXL

    3973EXL Member

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    Last edited: 26 Nov 2019
  9. Crisps

    Crisps Member

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  10. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Funny that, Poor luggage capacity on these have been highlighted all along since the introduction of the 800s on Great Western. Now I wonder if they will be able to be modified next (and have the contract change accordingly as per LNER), or the mantra of "Passengers Want More Seats" will continue, despite the same issues occurring on the Great Western Sets (Particularly on the First Group ordered 802s).

    From twitter, it looks like the rather poor non reservable seats next to the door pockets will be removed.
     
  11. Swimbar

    Swimbar Member

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    I think it's more to do with LNER being willing to respond to customer/train manager feedback!
     
  12. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Oh indeed, and with the retention of the onboard shop / buffet area, the East Coast sets where already a step ahead. But they were delivered with the (compared to what was there before in the MkIII and MkIV stock) poor luggage racks that blight the GW ones. It's good to see LNER listening to the feedback and managing to have these luggage racks changed in what seems to be such a stringently controlled contract with Agility Trains.
     
  13. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    An outbreak of common sense at last! I know some people don't mind them (certainly I've seen passengers sat there when there are plenty of other seats available) but if you're going to add extra luggage capacity they are certainly the most obvious seats to remove!

    It is terrible. I was on an 800 on Saturday where they had taken over the reservable bike space and were filling it with luggage for Edinburgh. The lack of even a small van on these trains is a real oversight (just having the length of one window bay would probably be enough)!!!

    I am also perplexed by passengers still confusing bike spaces for toilets. I saw easily half a dozen or more passengers all going up to the bike space and having a good tug at the door. One really went to town on it! There is a label next to the space designating it but I wonder if even more is required (perhaps a label next to the door handle that reads "This is a bike/luggage space. The toilet can be found behind you." though I don't hold out much hope...).

    I wonder if LNER are at an advantage here over GWR by the structure under which they operate. Presumably GWR would have to go first to the DfT and have a full on franchise agreement alteration discussion before going anywhere near Agility Trains. Whilst LNER are perhaps in a slightly more flexible position contractually?
     
  14. ohgoditsjames

    ohgoditsjames Member

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    If those seats are to be removed how many seats will be lost across an entire 9 car unit?
     
  15. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    20 if they remove all of the ones in standard class. A reduction from 510 to 490 standard class seats, compared to a total of 431 standard seats on an LNER HST and 402 on a 225 set.
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2019
  16. northernbelle

    northernbelle Member

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    Or perhaps it's because GWR has been lobbying for months and now that LNER has joined the party the DfT finally accept it's an issue?

    To be fair, luggage is a far greater issue on LNER than GWR. On GWR, the problems tend to be concentrated on a handful of WoE trains at specific times of the year/week. LNER's luggage management is crucial on most of its Anglo-Scottish services all year round.
     
  17. Marton

    Marton Member

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    Also in a tweet reply to me David Horne says they have reduced the harshness of the lighting.

    Pleased to see they’re listening.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. ohgoditsjames

    ohgoditsjames Member

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    Thanks! So despite the loss they'll still have more seats which was my concern and I didn't realise that the HST's had more standard class seats than the 225's.
     
  19. TT-ONR-NRN

    TT-ONR-NRN On Moderation

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    Delighted that the very mediocre seat cushions are progressively being upgraded to large, leather headrests in first class.

    I’ve travelled in both Azuma first class environments and while the initial fabric cushioned seat is an immense downgrade from the luxurious black leather on 225s and HSTs, you’d be surprised how much of a difference the new headrests have. They make the Azuma first product more of a fair replacement from the older fleet

    Not my images I take no credit, found on Google

    for the benefit of visually impaired members, the top photo shows the original first class seat with a tiny and thin fabric cushion. In the second photo the replacement leather headrests are visible

    DA936290-9644-448B-8DB8-5D5C64F45E4F.jpeg B583C59C-A8DC-4A2B-A330-4219E289B037.jpeg
     
  20. 387star

    387star On Moderation

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    Are they removing seats from the 9 cars and 5 cars ?

    We have been here before with virgin
     
  21. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

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    Copied from wnxx

    21 seats removed
    4 carriages increase from 2 luggage racks to 4
    3 carriages increase from 2 luggage racks to 3
    Seats removed are the ones next to the door pockets.
     
  22. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    The article that @Crisps linked to above says:
    and:
    So it looks pretty certain that they aren't currently planning to remove any seats from the 5-car units.
     
  23. aiden_g1

    aiden_g1 Member

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    With already large legroom in standard on almost ALL seat rows, technically the seating capacity could be kept the same or increased further. Although of course that would come with the reduction of legroom space, but almost certainly just be inline with the legacy fleet.
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2019
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Don't give them ideas. The pocket seats are rubbish - narrow and no window. Removing them to be replaced with racks is an excellent plan.
     
  25. aiden_g1

    aiden_g1 Member

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    I know... Although when it comes to getting a seat or standing, every seat counts!
    I remember seeing someone worked out that at least 48 additional standard seats (pre these additional luggage racks) could be added to a 9-car set without impacting on the legroom and be comparable to the legacy sets. I know this won't be done now, it's too much work to realign them and all the infrastructure around them when they're so new. However, it could be for any future operator of the franchise/trains or when having to prove they're increasing capacity if the demand continues to rise!
     
  26. Ethano92

    Ethano92 Member

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    I would happily sit in one of those if the alternative was to stand for multiple hours. Not that I think it's a bad idea, but I've already seen a couple on twitter calling it a backwards step to remove seats.
     
  27. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    I'm glad LNER are listening. Now if they could only install some better seats and some more 1 plus table plus 1 seats we'd be on our way to something moderately acceptable.
     
  28. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    GWR, take note. ;)
     
  29. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    “We can’t change anything, we get what we’re given, DfT contract blah blah blah”.

    LNER making something of a mockery of the GWR protestations.
     
  30. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    It's a start of a very long list of changes they need to make.
     

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