LNER to retain some Class 91s & Mk4 sets for a bit longer

[dk1]

From post 28 on this thread



So how does this square with all the subsequent chitter-chatter about use on captive Leeds services. What am I missing?

Me too but from all the, chitter-chatter I was under the impression something had changed. Open to all other views as always.

 

[swt_passenger]

From post 28 on this thread



So how does this square with all the subsequent chitter-chatter about use on captive Leeds services. What am I missing?

No idea to be honest. I think people just post their own understanding, ideas, hopes or whatever. A couple of months ago there seemed to be an almost certain belief that more AT300/80x would be ordered...

 

[GNER 91128]

So glad to hear that the 91s and the Mk4s are going to be around a little longer!
Yes I know they're getting on a bit now, but I much prefer them to the 800s the ride is about the same if not better IMO and the feeling of "space" is much nicer, in first or standard (again IMO) and it's nice to know on those unusually busy crammed services that there's space in the vestibules to not have the full packed sardine can experience!

 

[43096]

From post 28 on this thread



So how does this square with all the subsequent chitter-chatter about use on captive Leeds services. What am I missing?

It’s the track access application for VTEC (given away by the email address in it). Plans have obviously changed somewhat since then!

 

[citycat]

Am I the first to inform you that class 91’s and mk 4’s are remaining until December 2023 now?

View attachment 73340 Link

 

[DanNCL]

View attachment 73340 Link

Link doesn't work.

 

[citycat]

Link doesn't work.

I deleted it as it identifies the sender. It is an Aslef memo.

Up to ten sets to be retained to December 2023.

Up to 50 drivers recruited by December 2021.

Yet to be confirmed by the company.

 

[hwl]

I deleted it as it identifies the sender. It is an Aslef memo.

Up to ten sets to be retained to December 2023.

Up to 50 drivers recruited by December 2021.

Yet to be confirmed by the company.

So all the other TOC will be training up an extra 50+ drivers to replace the ones soon to jump ship!

 

[swt_passenger]

It’s the track access application for VTEC (given away by the email address in it). Plans have obviously changed somewhat since then!

Until a new track access application appears that should be the timetable that LNER are working towards. Despite being under OLR they’ll still have an SLC surely?

 

[coradiafan2000]

That is because you are a millennial and don't know what you are talking about

I'm gen z, and I'd take a 91 over an Azuma anyday. Hate the bloody things. (I've never actually been on an LNER one admittedly but I doubt they're much different from the GWR ones I've grown to know and tolerate).

 

[coradiafan2000]

I'd actually prefer a pacer to an azuma, I've done the settle to Carlisle on a 142 and suprisingly comfy.

WHAT.

As much as I loathe 80xs, they're like a Rolls Royce compared to a pacer.

Either way, Mark 3s and Mark 4s are leagues more comfortable than an Azuma in my opinion. Just a much more pleasant environment in my view.

 

[47271]

I'm not that fussed one way or the other, I've got used to Azuma First Class now and, as a few have commented above, rickety mk4 seats are becoming as big a problem again now as they were before the VTEC refurb.

I'm not aware that one train type is any more likely to bring down the wires than any other, but I did have an overhead power problem in an Azuma just north of Alnmouth on Monday of this week. We came to a very abrupt halt, sat for a minute, they explained, the engines fired up and off we went again, and we stayed on diesel to Newcastle. Not too bad I thought...

 

[Speed43125]

December 2023 would put the sets at just under 35 years old, which seems still on the young side for an Electric set, but perhaps more reasonable given there will no full overhauls (a la HST) of the 91.

 

[66Yorks]

Retired friends of mine in the BR days say that the ECML was wired on the cheap. How true that is to be seen. However it does seem to occur more often on the ECML that the WCML.

Are they? Is it not simply that the ECML OLE was done to a tight budget and isn't as robust as it could be - hence more frequent dewirements than say the WCML, is it actually specific to 91s?

 

[sd0733]

December 2023 would put the sets at just under 25 years old, which seems still on the young side for an Electric set, but perhaps more reasonable given there will no full overhauls (a la HST) of the 91.

They would be 35 years old not 25 by then. The 91s did also get a heavy overhaul in GNER days when they were renumbered from 91/0 to 91/1

 

[route101]

So they are staying to 2023?

 

[hexagon789]

Retired friends of mine in the BR days say that the ECML was wired on the cheap. How true that is to be seen. However it does seem to occur more often on the ECML that the WCML.

Hmm, that was my point that the issue is the OLE and not the trains.

So they are staying to 2023?

Seems like it

 

[Monty]

It amuses me to see all this nostalgia for the Mk IV coach, if you search on this forum going back a few years you will find numerous posts of people doing nothing but slate them. Now I personally always liked the Mk IVs, but it's nonetheless amusing to see that comfort on new trains has degraded to the point that we now wax lyrical about the 'Met-Cam Mk IV'.

 

[yorkie]

It amuses me to see all this nostalgia for the Mk IV coach, if you search on this forum going back a few years you will find numerous posts of people doing nothing but slate them. ...

Not everyone has the same views on stock. So this is of no surprise!

 

[Journeyman]

It makes sense to me to retain them on one route - I get the impression that the Leeds runs are a bit less demanding than the Edinburgh ones, as 90s don't seem to have too much trouble with timekeeping.

Most of my ECML runs recently have been HSTs or Azumas, but I took my first ride in a Mark 4 in a while a couple of weeks ago. It was definitely looking shabbier than I remembered them, but possibly this is a good opportunity to keep the best ones and free up some spares.

 

[35B]

It makes sense to me to retain them on one route - I get the impression that the Leeds runs are a bit less demanding than the Edinburgh ones, as 90s don't seem to have too much trouble with timekeeping.

Most of my ECML runs recently have been HSTs or Azumas, but I took my first ride in a Mark 4 in a while a couple of weeks ago. It was definitely looking shabbier than I remembered them, but possibly this is a good opportunity to keep the best ones and free up some spares.

The 90s could keep pace because their better acceleration offset their lower top speed on the ECML “stoppers”. I suspect the schedules are more, not less, demanding than the Edinburgh duties because of the number of stops.

The reports I’ve seen suggest - as with the 90s - using them on the Leeds run to limit the number of drivers who need to be trained and current on them. For a contingency measure, that seems reasonable.

Personally, I prefer the Mk4 to an Azuma, but there’s little in it and the quality of maintenance will make a big difference to my choice - the Mk4s are increasingly suffering from age and the inevitable winding down of maintenance.

 

[D365]

Two questions:

1. Are we going to see seven carriage "mini IC225s" retained, or will they be retained?
2. Has it been officially confirmed if they be confined to Leeds, Edinburgh, or both?

 

[angryskipfan]

If they are indeed keeping them in service to dec 2023 heavy maintenance will now be required. This has been postponed due to the run down of the class.

 

[50039]

Lots of questions here... Some have already gone for scrap, so how does this decision affect open access operators who are planning to use them - TfW have got some already, but Grand Central also wanted them for Euston to Blackpool in May? And there was talk of a Cardiff service as well?

Also - if they are run as short sets on the EDB service - how does that work? They’re usually really crowded??

 

[woodhouse122]

Lots of questions here... Some have already gone for scrap, so how does this decision affect open access operators who are planning to use them - TfW have got some already, but Grand Central also wanted them for Euston to Blackpool in May? And there was talk of a Cardiff service as well?

and Grand Union are also wanting 91/MK4 sets for a stirling -Euston service https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1223900702621290497

 

[hexagon789]

Two questions:

1. Are we going to see seven carriage "mini IC225s" retained, or will they be retained?
2. Has it been officially confirmed if they be confined to Leeds, Edinburgh, or both?

Nothing official said yet that I've seen, but the latest stuff doing the rounds suggests full-length sets and confined to Leeds but neither has been officially confirmed by LNER

 

[43096]

Lots of questions here... Some have already gone for scrap, so how does this decision affect open access operators who are planning to use them - TfW have got some already, but Grand Central also wanted them for Euston to Blackpool in May? And there was talk of a Cardiff service as well?

Also - if they are run as short sets on the EDB service - how does that work? They’re usually really crowded??

The vehicles that have gone for scrap are from sets that are being reduced in length for TfW/Grand Central. As you can only form up 30 (31 at a push) Mark 4 sets due to the number of TOE and DVT vehicles, there's no point in keeping vehicles sat in store for years that are not going to (indeed cannot) be used.

 

[DannyMich2018]

How will the retained MK 4 fleet be used until the 2021 timetable? By June this year all the Azuma's should be in service barring accident damaged 800109 and I know the Lincoln and Harrogate services require more units but come June they'll be enough Azuma's to cover all services just about?- Mk4s just used on a few services or to cover for Azumas undergoing modifications?

 

[Harryn9000]

and Grand Union are also wanting 91/MK4 sets for a stirling -Euston service https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1223900702621290497

i seen post of facebook grand union have confirmed it will be 90s not 91's

 

[mullac30]

i seen post of facebook grand union have confirmed it will be 90s not 91's

Are you sure you're not thinking of Grand Centrals WCML services with their MK4s?