London Bridge incident (03/06)

[RichmondCommu]

If I were part of a religion, organisation or group that had extremists at one end slaughtering innocent people, I wouldn't be in that group much longer.

Does the answer lie within?

Would that have included Catholics in the 70's, 80s and early 90s?

 

[Howardh]

Would that have included Catholics in the 70's, 80s and early 90s?

It would be up to them to decide.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It would be up to them to decide.

So if you had been a Catholic would you have left the church?

 

[Latecomer]

If I were part of a religion, organisation or group that had extremists at one end slaughtering innocent people, I wouldn't be in that group much longer.

Does the answer lie within?

So when my neighbours young children bring food to us (my wife and I being followers of no religion) as they break fast in the late evening with the generosity of spirit that Islam promotes should I be telling them or their parents that they should no longer be Muslim? They are a wonderful peace loving family probably even more affected than I that their God is named as these extremists carry out their outrages.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

If I were part of a religion, organisation or group that had extremists at one end slaughtering innocent people, I wouldn't be in that group much longer.

Does the answer lie within?

How close do you need to be? Islam is a massive and very varied religion. The things IS supporters believe are completely opposite to what most Muslims believe and most true followers of Islam consider them to be completely misguided and not proper followers of the faith, just picking extreme parts they want to follow.

Don't forget that IS repeatedly target different Muslim groups they consider apostate. Hence massive attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan recently.

 

[Howardh]

So if you had been a Catholic would you have left the church?

I was baptized into the CofE and left that as soon as I became an adult. The only time I have been in a church was once for a wedding and the funerals of my grandparents.

 

[Howardh]

So when my neighbours young children bring food to us (my wife and I being followers of no religion) as they break fast in the late evening with the generosity of spirit that Islam promotes should I be telling them or their parents that they should no longer be Muslim? They are a wonderful peace loving family probably even more affected than I that their God is named as these extremists carry out their outrages.

No, not in the slightest. They are fully capable of telling themselves; and that doesn't mean they stop being nice. Children can still pass food around....

It' wouldn't be compulsory to denounce a religion, but it might send out signals to the extremists if people did volunterily? I'm not picking on one religion, any that have extremists. I have asked the question "can it be done from within"? I can't answer.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

No, not in the slightest. They are fully capable of telling themselves; and that doesn't mean they stop being nice. Children can still pass food around....

It' wouldn't be compulsory to denounce a religion, but it might send out signals to the extremists if people did. I'm not picking on one religion, any that have extremists.

So 0.001% of people connected to a religion carry out acts against the main beliefs of that religion and that are condemned by 99.% of those connected to a religion and so everyone connected should be told to forgo their beliefs and have a different belief system forced upon them as a punishment, as a deterrent?

 

[Howardh]

So 0.001% of people connected to a religion carry out acts against the main beliefs of that religion and that are condemned by 99.% of those connected to a religion and so everyone connected should be told to forgo their beliefs and have a different belief system forced upon them as a punishment, as a deterrent?

I asked the question "can it be solved from within". I don't know the answer. I just want these atrocities stopped by any way possible. I'm fed up to the back teeth of it and it seems to be getting worse.
Can it be solved from within? If the answer's a no, then so be it.

 

[Busaholic]

Twelve people have been arrested in Barking 'in connection with the London Bridge incident.'

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I asked the question "can it be solved from within". I don't know the answer. I just want these atrocities stopped by any way possible. I'm fed up to the back teeth of it and it seems to be getting worse.
Can it be solved from within? If the answer's a no, then so be it.

There will inevitably be some people close to those who have committed the atrocities who might have suspected they are becoming radicalised - friends and family.

However making the jump from thinking someone is acting strangely, to reporting them to the police is a very big one.

You might see a parent acting strangely around a child, or a parter in a relationship looking subdued, but it takes a lot to actually call social services and report suspected abuse, particularly if it is about someone you know.

 

[DarloRich]

It seems the first police officer on the scene (according to Sky news) was a BTP officer who took on all three terrorist murders with his baton. He is reported to be in a very serious condition in hospital. I wonder how many people were able to escape because of his actions?

Hopefully people in the wider world will now see the BTP are "proper police" and respect them a bit more.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The true face of islam surely lies in how it runs the countries it controls - i.e. lack of basic human rights, extreme punishments, terrorising communities who do not conform. I doubt the 'Hug a Musilm' man in Manchester would have been so warmly received had he posed as a Coptic Christian in Cairo or a Jew in Tehran or an American in Baghdad.

 

[A Challenge]

It seems the first police officer on the scene (according to Sky news) was a BTP officer who took on all three terrorist murders with his baton. He is reported to be in a very serious condition in hospital. I wonder how many people were able to escape because of his actions?

Hopefully people in the wider world will now see the BTP are "proper police" and respect them a bit more.

I presume if he had a baton he was on duty. Not meaning any disrespect, why was he there at the time, its not as close as the Manchester attack was to Manchester Victoria to London Bridge

 

[phoenixcronin]

The true face of islam surely lies in how it runs the countries it controls - i.e. lack of basic human rights, extreme punishments, terrorising communities who do not conform. I doubt the 'Hug a Musilm' man in Manchester would have been so warmly received had he posed as a Coptic Christian in Cairo or a Jew in Tehran or an American in Baghdad.

100%

Those "hug a Muslim" things are pathetic stunts which try to divert attention away from the real problem of radical Islam

 

[deltic]

I presume if he had a baton he was on duty. Not meaning any disrespect, why was he there at the time, its not as close as the Manchester attack was to Manchester Victoria to London Bridge

One of London Bridge's tube exits is right by Borough Market!

 

[Senex]

Would that have included Catholics in the 70's, 80s and early 90s?

I don't think the IRA ever claimed to be acting in the name of the Church of Rome or of the Christian God. The people we are talking about once again today always claim to be acting in the name of Islam and of Allah.

 

[Senex]

The true face of islam surely lies in how it runs the countries it controls - i.e. lack of basic human rights, extreme punishments, terrorising communities who do not conform. I doubt the 'Hug a Musilm' man in Manchester would have been so warmly received had he posed as a Coptic Christian in Cairo or a Jew in Tehran or an American in Baghdad.

Exactly.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I hope the attacker/s is/are dead.

I don't/didn't. Capturing one of these a$$holes alive would be a huge coup in terms of intelligence and would rob the perpetrators of their 70 virgins in paradise. If they die they become a martyr to their ridiculous cause. Obviously protecting innocent lives is the priority in any police response to this sort of attack.

Horrific. My thoughts go out to all the victims and their families and friends.

So...is this our lives now? Is this what we're going to have to live with from now on? Horrible attacks every month or so? Can we bring any end to this?

There has always been groups or individuals who wish to disrupt the way our society operates. The current crop seem more hell-bent on taking lives though.

Also, my thoughts to everyone involved in this horrible incident.

 

[Howardh]

There will inevitably be some people close to those who have committed the atrocities who might have suspected they are becoming radicalised - friends and family.

However making the jump from thinking someone is acting strangely, to reporting them to the police is a very big one.

You might see a parent acting strangely around a child, or a parter in a relationship looking subdued, but it takes a lot to actually call social services and report suspected abuse, particularly if it is about someone you know.

If there was a financial reward for anyone reporting potential terrorrist crimes in respect of gaining a conviction, would more be prepared to grass on their mates? If a pal was up to no good, how's about a new pair of trainers or a decent phone for info??
The mere fact that they couldn't trust their "mates" might break up a cell-to-be, even if no-one actually did. Wasn't that how the IRA eventually came to heel, they couldn't trust anyone, least of all themselves?
Sounds very much like East Germany who relied on informants and secret police, but the situation has got to the point where "why not?"

 

[A Challenge]

One of London Bridge's tube exits is right by Borough Market!

I assumed it meant at the bridge but I suppose it couldn't have been as they were in a car and so ys, that makes more sense.

 

[HOOVER29]

It's a shame the BT officer wasn't armed.
He's a bloody hero & deserves a medal for standing up to these so called humans.
Waste of skin & fresh air!

 

[RichmondCommu]

100%

Those "hug a Muslim" things are pathetic stunts which try to divert attention away from the real problem of radical Islam

What would you rather people do to Muslims? Kick them in the nuts?

 

[WelshBluebird]

If there was a financial reward for anyone reporting potential terrorrist crimes in respect of gaining a conviction, would more be prepared to grass on their mates?

Or would it just lead to an increase in the number of BS calls and give the police even more ghosts to chase? (I am actually not sure, just presenting the opposite view here!).

 

[Howardh]

Or would it just lead to an increase in the number of BS calls and give the police even more ghosts to chase? (I am actually not sure, just presenting the opposite view here!).

Isn't there a crime of wasting police time? Although if there is and it has to be persued...that's even more time lost!

But the point is if terrorists can't trust their closest mates and family, it could be a painless way to break up cells.

 

[najaB]

If I were part of a religion ... that had extremists at one end slaughtering innocent people, I wouldn't be in that group much longer.

That'll be all of them then?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That'll be all of them then?

Even the Buddhists!

 

[55003]

My wife was at London Bridge on Friday afternoon when there was an incident due to a suspect package.The instruction was to evacuate the station,but she found the prospect of having to go down a steep escalator from the platform into a large dark hall with only a few exits was not the wisest option and managed to get on a passing train and on her way home. Herding travellers into a box with only a few exits doesn't seem very sensible.

 

[najaB]

The true face of islam surely lies in how it runs the countries it controls...

Islam doesn't control any countries, any more than Christianity controlled Europe in the Middle Ages. Yes, the government and people followed (to varying extent) the teaching and instruction of the Catholic church, and yes the Pope had a lot of political influence over Kings and Princes but at the end of the day it was individual human beings making decisions. Same as today.

Their beliefs may be a factor in their reasoning, but religion will be but one factor out of many.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Blaming ordinary Muslims for these events are exactly what the terrorists want you to do. They want to sow the seeds of discord and hate, to create these social divides between Muslims and the rest of the western world.

Some of what you people are saying genuinely disgusts me. I was spat at in the street earlier "for last night" and right now I want to die. I feel guilty even though I've played no part. It's horrible.