London underground strike

[Dstock7080]

The new duty schedules and timetables were due to come into operation on 6 September, we are rapidly approaching the usual statutory 28 days notice period for changes to rotas and timetables.

 

[ivanhoe]

They could have done, and many union members wanted that to happen. The blogger "Aslef shrugged" was definitely in favour of that.

They've had eighteen months to sort this out. The fact they haven't should tell us everything we need to know about TfL management's true motivation.

There are night shift staff on the tube, but there isn't enough of them to cover Night Tube because of the additional demands of running in public service. And I'll be honest, if I worked as a CSA in a station you could double my pay and I'd still not want to be up mopping up sick until 6am every weekend.

You might not want to, but there would be no shortage of volunteers at double your pay. Comments like that look good on these forums but I bet you would not say that out loud to BBC/SKY News.

 

[Magicake]

This is interesting - I have just waded through several pages of this thread and what LUL staff are saying seems very different from the offer that management are quoted as offering on the news. I don't for one moment disbelieve anyone on here, judging by past stories what management say in negotiations and what they say to the press are two very different things.

According to the latest BBC article the LUL offer is that staff will have the option of opting out of nights after a transitional period (presumably to train more staff) and that during the transition period they will receive a £500 bonus and £200 per night shift worked.

I have two questions for any staff:
- If this were the offer would you accept it?
- In what way does this differ from your understanding of the offer?

Finally I wonder if night tube will actually give track workers more sociable hours as there will be less Friday/Saturday night work!

 

[Greenback]

How long would this transitional period be? What is the guarantee that LUL will still allow staff to opt out at the end of it?

Those are the questions that I'd want answered before making any decision.

 

[Mojo]

Finally I wonder if night tube will actually give track workers more sociable hours as there will be less Friday/Saturday night work!

Aside from weekend blockades, there is very little routine work that actually takes place on Friday and Saturday nights. Most people from that side that work permanent nights tend to already have Friday & Saturday as their rest days.

 

[Domh245]

How long would this transitional period be? What is the guarantee that LUL will still allow staff to opt out at the end of it?

Those are the questions that I'd want answered before making any decision.

I'd heard that the transitional period was 12 months

 

[Daniel]

I'd heard that the transitional period was 12 months

OOI may I ask where you've heard that from, as it'd be news to me?

 

[Domh245]

Having double checked, it was actually up to 12 months. It was on the BBC news articles about the strikes. Also heard it from a driver

 

[Robertj21a]

Sounds a very good deal to me. If it's accurate I wonder what the sticking point is.

 

[Daniel]

Sounds a very good deal to me. If it's accurate I wonder what the sticking point is.

Domh245 has kindly provided a link off forum to where he got the 12 month bit from, but as later mentioned it is stated as 'up to 12 months'. A point of note as with a lot of things being offered is the 'up to' - they could end the transitional period after a week, that's still up to a year.

The 'sticking point' itself is probably that the increases in what the company are offering are pretty much all cash based, and that's not what any of the unions have been asking for.

 

[Taunton]

The 'sticking point' itself is probably that the increases in what the company are offering are pretty much all cash based, and that's not what any of the unions have been asking for.

Am I correct that union subs are still on a rate per employee per week basis rather than linked to actual pay, including any premium, and thus there will be no increase in union subs if there is just more pay. What will give them more subs income is more staff on the payroll, and that is the key desire of the union hierarchy.

 

[Deerfold]

Am I correct that union subs are still on a rate per employee per week basis rather than linked to actual pay, including any premium, and thus there will be no increase in union subs if there is just more pay. What will give them more subs income is more staff on the payroll, and that is the key desire of the union hierarchy.

Whilst that might be the case, it's the current union members that have voted for the strikes.

All the station and driving staff I've heard anything from have been bemoaning that they will not be able to plan anything definitely, especially at weekends until the last minute.

Is the offer above for all staff or just the drivers? The one-off bonus is fairly irrelevant due to its one-off nature. If everyone got £200 a night shift it might prove popular (and make it easier to change shifts when you're wanting to do something on a specific date) but I doubt everyone will.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Is the offer above for all staff or just the drivers? The one-off bonus is fairly irrelevant due to its one-off nature. If everyone got £200 a night shift it might prove popular (and make it easier to change shifts when you're wanting to do something on a specific date) but I doubt everyone will.

It is only for drivers, which has furthered the dispute on stations (And others)...

 

[455driver]

It is only for drivers, which has furthered the dispute on stations (And others)...

Well that sucks!
It isn't just the drivers they need to work these night shifts so everyone who will have to work these extra shifts should be getting the same 'bonus', in my opinion!

 

[gavin]

More talks tomorrow apparently if they don't make any progress another strike will be announced on Tuesday

 

[fIIsion]

Sounds a very good deal to me. If it's accurate I wonder what the sticking point is.

The sticking point is that there are four unions involved in this dispute representing a whole spectrum of operational roles.

Plus the deal does not address the issue of work/life balance which is the whole point of the dispute.

 

[Busaholic]

If the Night Tube posters have come down, Boris can do the same as he's been forced to do with his Borisb(l)us(ter) by quietly going back on the open rear platform/conductor aspect and just pretending that it was never really his intention to introduce night tube working and everyone must have made a ghastly mistake. And hey, chaps, Uxbridge was not in the plans so, who cares now anyway?

 

[Nym]

The sticking point is that there are four unions involved in this dispute representing a whole spectrum of operational roles.

Plus the deal does not address the issue of work/life balance which is the whole point of the dispute.

You can add to that non-operational project roles as well, a significant amount of Capital Programmes (CPD) is on an LUL Pay Grade and subject to the same negotiation.

Those working on commissioning projects for example, night tube will see access to assets to be commissioned reduced significantly, and no allowances will be made to the project plans thanks to top end management and planners who don't understand the railway, so all these engineers, site managers and technicians will need to work more and more unsociable shifts, and more of them as the traditional access periods shrink..

 

[gavin]

Update from Acas

 

[westv]

If another pita strike was called how soon could it happen? I want to book a couple of days off but want to avoid having to use the tube to travel back home from work on any day of disruption.

 

[Dstock7080]

7 days statutory notice required, so if announced today Weds 19 August could be next (although it isn't).

 

[chris11256]

I remember reading somewhere that the next strike may well be 48 hours or more.
Can't link a source as I cant remember exactly where I found it.

 

[Robertj21a]

I remember reading somewhere that the next strike may well be 48 hours or more.
Can't link a source as I cant remember exactly where I found it.

If they want to bring things to a head, they should go for a 3-4 day strike. That will sort out the men from the boys.

The 36 hour type of strike is just seen by many as rather silly and aimed at causing as much annoyance to passengers as possible. A longer, total, strike should bring results - in one direction or the other.

 

[richardio123]

Two more Tube strikes announced
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33866704

Edit: the abuse RMT are getting on Twitter is astronomical

 

[gavin]

The RMT has announced its members will walk out again on two separate occasions later this month in the continuing dispute with Tube bosses over Night Tube rosters and job cuts.

Strike action will take place from 21:00 on Tuesday 25 August to 21:00 Wednesday 26 August and 21:00 on Thursday 27 August to 21:00 on Friday 28 August - just before the Bank Holiday weekend.

Upping the anti now with 3 and a half days or so of chaos likely

 

[Carlisle]

If they want to bring things to a head, they should go for a 3-4 day strike. That will sort out the men from the boys.

The 36 hour type of strike is just seen by many as rather silly and aimed at causing as much annoyance to passengers as possible. A longer, total, strike should bring results - in one direction or the other.

Are you sure ?I don't recall a resounding victory for ASLEF after their 2 week strike in 1982

 

[Kite159]

Just think of all the money the strikers are throwing away by going on strike.

And all the earnings London will lose out from, as a result of the strikes, with the risk of being downgraded in the tour guides as "unreliable transport system"? Resulting in a drop of tourism.

At some point the workers will have to cut their losses and accept that they might have to work nights, like other jobs (2 x 12 hour day shifts, 2 X 12 hour nights shifts , 4 days off, working 365 days a year regardless if it's a weekend or a bank holiday)

 

[chris11256]

At this stage it's only the RMT striking. Although I fully expect the other unions to announce the same dates.

 

[duncanp]

The RMT have announced two more 24 hour strikes for 25th and 27th August.

I wonder if the replacement buses currently running at the Northern end of the Victoria Line will continue to run on those days.

Probably yes, for contractual reasons if nothing else, and the bus drivers aren't on strike.

If they do, it is going to be very ironic that there will be a service running between Walthamstow and Seven Sisters, but no service between Seven Sisters and Brixton.

 

[Dstock7080]

ASLEF return to the negotiating table at ACAS tomorrow and will consider the action to take on Thursday.