Luton: Why does it feel like a rundown Northern ex-mill town but is 45 minutes from London?

[bramling]

I would actually widen the 'crap' tag to include the whole of Bedfordshire. Luton , Dunstable, Leighton Vulture and what in many respects is worse than Luton - Bedford (at least Luton has an airport). The surrounding counties are all so much nicer (not brilliant or outstanding just not so bad).

Must admit visiting Bedford recently I was surprised how much it seemed to have degenerated. Childhood memories bring to me a memory of a fairly pleasant quiet small town, whereas nowadays it seems to be the increasingly frequent Home Counties mix of tatty, overcrowded, congested, polluted and with a run-down town centre surrounded by cramped out-of-town retail parks and lots of down-and-outs hanging around.

I’d agree there are some rather unpleasant towns elsewhere in Bedfordshire, besides Luton. Sandy is one which springs to mind, for some reason I find this a very depressing town.

However none of this is really relevant to Luton, which is quite unlike anything else in the area IMO.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Is the Arndale earmarked for demolition?

I can't believe how unbearably ugly that building is and the escalators are incredibly narrow

The Starbucks opposite the station is about as good as it gets!

Lots of undesirables which Bedford suffers from too

Incidentally the TL route also passes through Crawley Sutton Elephant and Castle and Croydon which are also often talked about disparagingly

I'd be surprised if it is... not many years ago the owners had to make a choice.. demolish or refurbish... like everything in Luton the cheap option was chosen... refurbish {though for the life of me I never worked out what they actually spent any money on}

Quite apart from that, demolishing the Arndale would probably be the final nail in Luton's retail coffin... unlike most other towns you take away the shopping centre and there's no town centre left... literally 95% of shops are in the Arndale

 

[muddythefish]

how odd... seeing as though, when living in Northern towns, anyone wishing to throw an insult at me would call me a "f*@king cockney w*nker" you see I was from the "south" so I must {in their mind} be a cockney.... now if that isn't a stereotype what is?

perhaps instead of coming in half way through a thread and only reading a couple of comments and getting "offended" why not read through everything everyone has had to say on the subject and then give us your pearls of wisdom on what causes Luton to be such a dump?

I said I found greater ignorance in the south - which doesn't mean ignorance does not exist in the north. My take is the thread title is offensive, because there are just as many "dumps" like Luton in the south. Seeing as you used to live there perhaps you'd like to share your "pearls of wisdom" on Luton's problems

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I said I found greater ignorance in the south - which doesn't mean ignorance does not exist in the north. My take is the thread title is offensive, because there are just as many "dumps" like Luton in the south. Seeing as you used to live there perhaps you'd like to share your "pearls of wisdom" on Luton's problems

lol I already have... many times in this thread... IF you'd care to read through!

in any case what is so offensive about the title of this thread? are you telling me there is no such thing as a run down northern ex-mill town?

 

[muddythefish]

in any case what is so offensive about the title of this thread? are you telling me there is no such thing as a run down northern ex-mill town?

It's a stereotype that southerners love to indlge in ("it's grim up nawf") - I'm sure you can grasp the concept if you try.

 

[387star]

Luton and Harpenden can be equated with Crawley and Horsham... chalk and cheese but close by

 

[muddythefish]

Sandy is one which springs to mind, for some reason I find this a very depressing town.

.

Sandy's a funny little place containing some unpleasant people. Biggleswade isn't much better.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

It's a stereotype that southerners love to indlge in ("it's grim up nawf") - I'm sure you can grasp the concept if you try.

are there run down ex-mill towns in the north? yes
does Luton feel like one of those same towns? yes

leading to the question... why is that?

I can't see what's so offensive about that, but of course some people just like to get offended for the sake of it don't they?

 

[bramling]

It's a stereotype that southerners love to indlge in ("it's grim up nawf") - I'm sure you can grasp the concept if you try.

Maybe I’ve been sheltered, however I’ve heard *way* more stereotypes from northerners about southerners. To be fair some may well be at least partially accurate, but the idea that southerners go round slagging off the north is rather wide of the mark.

 

[bramling]

Sandy's a funny little place containing some unpleasant people. Biggleswade isn't much better.

Yes very true although it’s more attractive than Sandy. For some reason I feel very uneasy in Sandy, a sense of unease that I don’t get even in somewhere like Camberwell or Stockwell!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You live in Milton Keynes. You should be an expert on dumps

Have you ever been here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But where though? I struggle to think of any. Perhaps Slough at a push.

Slough is a bit grim but while it is a melting pot of different racial backgrounds it doesn't seem to share the social problems Luton has - they all do seem, to some extent, to get on reasonably as tends to happen in the larger cities (rather than the likes of the mill towns).

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's your opinion that there are more stereotypes (with greater ignorance) in the south. Nothing in my post mentioned anything derogatory about the north, ex mill-towns, northerners etc., but if you are just wanting to be offended they go ahead and enjoy it. I have lived in a few places in the south, (I've never lived in the North as I always had a job down here), and some of them have a depressed feel about them, e.g. Fareham.

Gosport and parts of Portsmouth are similarly a bit grim - but lack the social problems Luton seems to have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Incidentally the TL route also passes through Crawley Sutton Elephant and Castle and Croydon which are also often talked about disparagingly

Croydon town centre is a bit average-to-slightly-grim but there is some lovely big and expensive housing around the rest of Croydon, most of the population of which probably treats central London as its town centre rather than Croydon. Crawley and Sutton I don't really know. The Elephant is a different definition of grim, it is truly horrible.

 

[talltim]

Here’s a theory
Luton is at a different stage in its evolution to other former single industry towns (often located in the north). At the end of its single industry’s life there came a saviour, the Vauxhall factory, but the running down of this has only delayed the effect. Perhaps the comparison should be Luton with mill towns 30 years ago?
Another thing to consider, mill owners, whether philanthropic believers in helping the common people or hard slave drivers, tended to be big on leaving their mark on the civic landscape, these buildings renovated have become part of the USP of the towns. In Luton hatmaking tended to be piecework done in people’s houses and didn’t leave the architectural heritage. The car factories, while providing employment have not left anything either.

 

[radamfi]

Croydon town centre is a bit average-to-slightly-grim but there is some lovely big and expensive housing around the rest of Croydon, most of the population of which probably treats central London as its town centre rather than Croydon. Crawley and Sutton I don't really know. The Elephant is a different definition of grim, it is truly horrible.

Elephant is almost unrecognisable from its reputation. The scary roundabout has been tamed a little and there are a lot of new expensive apartments. Professional people live there now. Sutton is one of the better areas in outer London. East of Three Bridges station (about a third of Crawley) is very affluent and most of the rest is largely OK. The western fringes (Ifield West, Broadfield and Bewbush) are the worst areas of Crawley, but nothing like as bad as an inner city area or northern mill town.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Elephant is almost unrecognisable from its reputation

Has it changed substantially in the last 2/3 years which is when I last went there? It was a dump back then.

 

[radamfi]

Has it changed substantially in the last 2/3 years which is when I last went there? It was a dump back then.

The old shopping centre is still there but a lot of the old housing has gone. Have a look in Google Street View.

 

[DarloRich]

Cruddas Park.. in one of the tower blocks that was demolished

I know Cruddas Park - I went out with a girl from there for a bit. (Technically it might have been Elswick as she lived near the pool) It is rough and ready and run down and looks like "standard" north east!

Were the tower blocks named after trees or were they the "council" houses on the hill? There are still 5 or 6 towers off Park Road

I lived in Fenham for a bit which was "challenging" at times but I thought you were going to day somewhere really rough like Cowgate! Benwell also has a really bad reputation but it is no worse than Byker or Walker

You live in Milton Keynes. You should be an expert on dumps

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I have lived in much worse places

..... and a very pleasant place too. Lived there for some time.

it has gone down hill sadly.

 

[AlterEgo]

I said I found greater ignorance in the south - which doesn't mean ignorance does not exist in the north. My take is the thread title is offensive, because there are just as many "dumps" like Luton in the south. Seeing as you used to live there perhaps you'd like to share your "pearls of wisdom" on Luton's problems

Some people will be offended at anything.

 

[AlterEgo]

Has it changed substantially in the last 2/3 years which is when I last went there? It was a dump back then.

It has improved slightly but the area by the station is like a time warp back to 1986. It feels conspicuously unsafe, run down, and the shopping centre is dreadful.

 

[Bletchleyite]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I have lived in much worse places

The shopping centre is a bit rubbish as are the estates around the city centre but by and large the rest of it is very nice and very green.

 

[Bromley boy]

Has it changed substantially in the last 2/3 years which is when I last went there? It was a dump back then.

No.

It’s now a dump (horrible shopping centre and a grim roundabout) surrounded by a lot of high priced flats. The TL/SE station that serves it, and the surrounding area, is truly foul (albeit with much nicer areas, such as Kennington and Borough, a shortish walk away).

It’s odd that a location in zone 1 has resisted gentrification for so long. That may begin to change with the new housing, or course.

It’s similar to Lewisham town centre which is at a similar stage of development - still utterly grim, but has recently had a lot of new and expensive flats built.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I know Cruddas Park - I went out with a girl from there for a bit. (Technically it might have been Elswick as she lived near the pool) It is rough and ready and run down and looks like "standard" north east!

Were the tower blocks named after trees or were they the "council" houses on the hill? There are still 5 or 6 towers off Park Road

I lived in Fenham for a bit which was "challenging" at times but I thought you were going to day somewhere really rough like Cowgate! Benwell also has a really bad reputation but it is no worse than Byker or Walker

Ah so you fall into the trap...it's leafy, the housing looks ok, so it must be a nice area...

The towers, when I lived at Cruddas Park, were in a state of serious decay... nothing had been done to them since they'd been built. I had to take a flat there because, at the time I was desperate for housing and beggars can't be choosers...

The fact is there was plenty of flats available in the towers cos no-one wanted to live there... so the council used them as a dumping ground for all their problem tenants... the towers were full of druggies and drunks, and other anti-social behaviours.

After I moved in it quickly became apparent to me that my particular block was actually slipping off it's foundations and down the hill {whoever thought it wise to build a 14 storey tower block on a 1:4 hill?} as evidenced by the huge cracks all over my flat!

 

[DarloRich]

Ah so you fall into the trap...it's leafy, the housing looks ok, so it must be a nice area...

The towers, when I lived at Cruddas Park, were in a state of serious decay... nothing had been done to them since they'd been built. I had to take a flat there because, at the time I was desperate for housing and beggars can't be choosers...

The fact is there was plenty of flats available in the towers cos no-one wanted to live there... so the council used them as a dumping ground for all their problem tenants... the towers were full of druggies and drunks, and other anti-social behaviours.

After I moved in it quickly became apparent to me that my particular block was actually slipping off it's foundations and down the hill {whoever thought it wise to build a 14 storey tower block on a 1:4 hill?} as evidenced by the huge cracks all over my flat!

I am not saying the area was nice! I just think it is no worse ( or better) than other bits of the north east I or family members lived in. I never went in the tower blocks down there but the local view on them was obvious. They got stuffed with all the problem council tenants because , as you say, no one wanted to live there.

As for who thought it was a good idea to build all those tower blocks: Step forward T Dan Smith, Bovis and John Poulson.

( an interesting side note is that T Dan Smith ended up living in one of his tower blocks in Spittal Tongues after his release from prison & that Alun Armstrong who played a fictionalized version of Smith in our friends in the north was his neighbour! )

 

[fowler9]

Went to Uni with a guy from Luton who used to rip us for being from Liverpool. Visiting Luton for the the first time was hilarious.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The whole of estuarine Essex and Kent is a sorry affair and only survives due to their proximity to London.

 

[Typhoon]

Elephant is almost unrecognisable from its reputation. The scary roundabout has been tamed a little and there are a lot of new expensive apartments. Professional people live there now.

I think the problem is that the Elephant is still too closely linked to the sight of the (still rather) scary roundabout, those bl@@dy flats and the shopping centre, whose repainting has done nothing for it. It has always been a transport junction - there is nothing that can done about that. But once you step outside this immediate region I think it lacks the apathy and hostility of other places quoted. I can certainly think of worse. People do talk to you there.

It has improved slightly but the area by the station is like a time warp back to 1986. It feels conspicuously unsafe, run down, and the shopping centre is dreadful.

I've never been inside the shopping centre - just the sight of it puts be off, but I reckon as you start wandering down Walworth Road, it starts perking up. Also East Street Market is decent - better than overrated alternatives.

Really, it depends where you think the Elephant begins and ends! ​

 

[43021HST]

I said I found greater ignorance in the south - which doesn't mean ignorance does not exist in the north. My take is the thread title is offensive, because there are just as many "dumps" like Luton in the south. Seeing as you used to live there perhaps you'd like to share your "pearls of wisdom" on Luton's problems

And I could easily say I found greater ignorance in the north when I lived up near Chester (Shotton) for a few years. However upon growing up I realised that ignorance isn't a North v South thing. It's about how accepting an area is of outsiders. IE I liked Manchester (didn't like Liverpool though), found the locals generally to be very nice, although it maybe because I have family there so I'm somewhat biased.

I don't understand why so many people get so offended by their home towns being called dumps. Grow up!
To be honest when my hometown of Reading got listed in crap towns a while ago it installed a sense of pride. I come from a dump and proud, I currently live in Aldershot, which I like as it reminds me of Reading 10 years ago. The missus is trying to drag me out to Alton, but I can't think of anything worse than living in some semi-rural, cliquey middle class, Georgian market town.

I also go to South Bank Uni in Elephant and Castle and have friends in Grove Park South London, so all I've known all my life are places that are pretty ugly. To be honest I like Elephant and Castle for it's grit factor. You meet far more interesting people in dumps, I'd rather be talking to the local spiceheads about new world order conspiracy theorys, than middle managers about house prices.

 

[AM9]

... I don't understand why so many people get so offended by their home towns being called dumps. Grow up! ...

In my experience, it's not a failure to 'grow up' as there are plenty (and not necessarily in the North) who go through their whole adult life with a chip on their shoulder. It's a shame really, as they waste so much of their real life that way.