Man dies charging iPhone while in the bath

[D365]

I usually use an iPad charger with a full-length earthed mains lead. But I'd never charge my phone in the bathroom.

 

[Murph]

If the cable had been longer the deceased man could have had the charger on the floor and not in the bath with him or balanced precariously on the edge. The incident would not occurred.

It could still have occurred with any length of low voltage cable with either 1) a cheap and nasty or counterfeit mains adaptor, or 2) a faulty, damaged, or splashed genuine adaptor.

There is no safe scenario here where one end of the cable is in close proximity to mains. (Unless you are an electrical engineer and both understand the issues and have properly mitigated them, but just don't do it.) Hell, even without any mains involved, submerging a high capacity Lithium battery could end up starting a class D metal fire which can't easily be extinguished. Just enjoy a nice relaxing bath while not being jacked into the net, it is quite possible.

 

[najaB]

Jst enjoy a nice relaxing bath while not being jacked into the net, it is quite possible.

This more than anything!

 

[Dai Corner]

Oh, I agree that there's no need to charge (or even use) any electrical device while in the bath. I was just speculating what the coroner might write to Apple in the Prevention of Future Death Report she is reported to be producing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, I agree that there's no need to charge (or even use) any electrical device while in the bath. I was just speculating what the coroner might write to Apple in the Prevention of Future Death Report she is reported to be producing.

May be something to do with changing how Apple promote its "water resistant" features (which are intended not for using in the bath, but so it doesn't break if you get soaked in the rain without a coat).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If I touched a 240v mains supply (perhaps by putting my finger into a desk lamp with the bulb removed, say), would I still need to be holding a metal pipe?

If you are on a completely insulated platform you could quite happily hold on to the live side of a 240V (or 120kV for that matter) supply without any harm.

However, if there's any path to earth (or to neutral) then things will get very interesting, very quickly (I advise ensuring you have an up-to-date will before trying this).

I could name one person I know of limited thought processing capability who has managed to zap herself three times.

Once was knocking a table lamp over, bulb broke, she decided that picking it up by the shattered stem of the bulb - mains still switched on - was a good idea.

The other two times involved toast getting stuck in the toaster and a knife... once is one thing, but doing the same thing again only a few months later...?! :roll:

Never under-estimate the capacity for people to either not realise or not stop to think about what they are doing.

 

[HSTEd]

Now I want huge 5Vdc aluminium busbars in my house....

 

[ExRes]

I fundamentally do disagree that we live in a blame anyone but me culture but you aren't going to change your mind so it is pointless debating it.

I really don't know what to say to that comment, do you mean that unless I, or anyone else, changes my/their mind to your point of view that a debate is pointless? I have to say it's a interesting way of going about things

 

[DarloRich]

I really don't know what to say to that comment, do you mean that unless I, or anyone else, changes my/their mind to your point of view that a debate is pointless? I have to say it's a interesting way of going about things

I am simply saying that the question is almost rhetorical. You believe that your point is correct and I believe mine is correct. I doubt we will agree so we should move on to something else.

For completeness: The law in regard to negligence hasn't really changed and nor have the rights of the injured party. What has changed is the access to different funding methods for legal actions and thus the ability of more people to seek redress. Coupled with greater publicity and knowledge of those rights we see more "HSEA gone mad" type cases at the courts which creates a cycle of more claims as more people learn they can ( and are able to afford) to claim.

Of course that doesn't look quite so good in the Express/Mail comments section........

Take the case suggested by the OP. Any negligence claim made by an injured party because a fault with the equipment would be cancelled out by the contributory negligence of the victim. As i have said before the concept of contributory negligence by the injured party seems to pass many here by.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Maybe I'm a monster, but the only sadness I feel is that a 'big boy' put using his phone higher in his list of priorities than staying alive.

He simply could've taken his bath later.

I don't think you're a monster but I don't think it's very nice to laugh at someone who has lost their life, not matter how stupid he might have been.

 

[najaB]

While the Prevention of Future Death report hasn't been published yet for this case, I started having a nosy through some of the previous ones.

A lot of importance was placed by some posters on the fact that an experienced coroner felt it necessary to contact Apple about this death, but having read a couple of reports I'm not so sure.

In one of them - into the death of Liam Day while climbing sea cliffs - the coroner sent recommendations to the British Mountaineering Council and the Royal Yachting Association. Both of organisations replied to say that his suggestion that the deceased should have worn floatation equipment would actually increase the likelihood of falling.

So coroners don't always get it right.

 

[Dai Corner]

Perhaps coroners who believe a death was preventable should be able to order an RAIB style report by appropriate experts?

 

[WelshBluebird]

What I find unbelievable about this is just the effort taken to do something so dangerous. I could understand if it was an easy thing to do, a mistake or a slip or something, but he specifically had to make the multiple bad decisions that led to this. How on earth, at some point, did he not think "hmmm this seems to be a pain in the backside, maybe that is for a reason and I shouldn't do it"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps coroners who believe a death was preventable should be able to order an RAIB style report by appropriate experts?

230VAC meets water with a person therein, person is fried.

There is no need for an investigation. It is utterly obviously a case of misadventure (idiocy of the highest order).

 

[Dai Corner]

230VAC meets water with a person therein, person is fried.

There is no need for an investigation. It is utterly obviously a case of misadventure (idiocy of the highest order).

In this case, yes. I was thinking more generally after reading NajaB's post.

 

[tony_mac]

That depends on how you interpret the reports.
Some have stated that it was the iphone in the water, some that it was the charging cable, some that it was the charger.
(Obviously, it was 230v, but it may well have come down the 5v cable).

That is almost certainly what the coroner was investigating, and I don't see how he could have concluded that Apple should be warned if there was actually a mains cable in the water.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is almost certainly what the coroner was investigating, and I don't see how he could have concluded that Apple should be warned if there was actually a mains cable in the water.

It is possible that it was because the iPhone 7 is sold as being splashproof (or somesuch wording).

Nonetheless using (touching or positioning such that it could be touched or could fall in) anything in the bath that has, by whatever means, a mains plug on the other end, while in the bath, is lunacy.

 

[najaB]

It is possible that it was because the iPhone 7 is sold as being splashproof (or somesuch wording).

It's sold as "Splash, Water and Dust Resistant" on the tech specs page.

 

[455driver]

What I find unbelievable about this is just the effort taken to do something so dangerous. I could understand if it was an easy thing to do, a mistake or a slip or something, but he specifically had to make the multiple bad decisions that led to this. How on earth, at some point, did he not think "hmmm this seems to be a pain in the backside, maybe that is for a reason and I shouldn't do it"?

It wasnt the earth that was the problem!

 

[455driver]

That depends on how you interpret the reports.
Some have stated that it was the iphone in the water, some that it was the charging cable, some that it was the charger.
(Obviously, it was 230v, but it may well have come down the 5v cable).

That is almost certainly what the coroner was investigating, and I don't see how he could have concluded that Apple should be warned if there was actually a mains cable in the water.

It reads that the extension lead was balanced on his chest with the iphone charger plugged into it.

 

[tony_mac]

Like I said, that is not how everyone has reported it; some have said it was the charger cable that was resting on him.

And either it's not completely accurate, or the coroner is extremely foolish (“These seem like innocuous devices but can be as dangerous as a hairdryer in a bathroom." - who would think that about a mains extension lead?
or another quote, from family, "You do not think there is enough electricity to do this, but there is.". Again, a mains extension lead? but maybe a charger cable... )

 

[Murph]

Like I said, that is not how everyone has reported it; some have said it was the charger cable that was resting on him.

And either it's not completely accurate, or the coroner is extremely foolish (“These seem like innocuous devices but can be as dangerous as a hairdryer in a bathroom." - who would think that about a mains extension lead?
or another quote, from family, "You do not think there is enough electricity to do this, but there is.". Again, a mains extension lead? but maybe a charger cable... )

I agree with you that those statements seem more consistent with it only being the "low voltage" stuff that was in direct close proximity to the water. The precise circumstances are not unambiguously clear to me, at this point. That ambiguity and the implied thought process that it was safe to have a mobile device plugged into a mains charger while in the bath (whether it was low voltage or mains cabling that came close to the water), is why I put a great deal of emphasis and explanation into the potential for 240VAC to be present on what a layperson might think of as being just "safe" 5VDC.

My guess on what might be in the coroner's recommendation to Apple, is that they should perhaps include greater warnings to keep all mains charging apparatus well away from the bathroom and water, and/or that cheap or counterfeit charging apparatus is potentially lethal. We don't know whether is was a genuine charger, damaged, counterfeit, or a cheap and nasty one involved. Whatever the case I feel it must be something in the general area of educating the public that 5VDC directly derived from mains is only relatively safe, not safe from poor quality or damaged apparatus, and actually quite dangerous in a bathroom.

 

[455driver]

The second paragraph of the link in the opening post states its the charger that made contact with the water.

Richard Bull, 32, died when his iPhone charger made contact with the water at his home in Ealing, west London.

Paragraphs five says-

Mr Bull is believed to have plugged his charger into an extension cord from the hallway and rested it on his chest while using the phone, the Sun reports.

And six says-

He suffered severe burns on his chest, arm and hand when the charger touched the water and died on 11 December, the newspaper said

So I would say it was the 240V extension lead that made direct contact with the water.

 

[WelshBluebird]

My guess on what might be in the coroner's recommendation to Apple, is that they should perhaps include greater warnings to keep all mains charging apparatus well away from the bathroom and water

Sorry, I think such a recommendation would be insane. If someone does something as stupid as that, it is their own fault. There is zero blame on the manufacturer in that scenario.

 

[najaB]

Sorry, I think such a recommendation would be insane.

It's not insane to recommend it if there is no warning currently.

 

[Murph]

Sorry, I think such a recommendation would be insane. If someone does something as stupid as that, it is their own fault. There is zero blame on the manufacturer in that scenario.

I agree that there's no real blame on Apple here. However, that does not inhibit them from doing their best to highlight risks to customers. Poor quality chargers are an area where the general public's knowledge is probably not so good. With the phones being advertised as splash / water resistant, it can't hurt to say something along the lines of "do not charge in a wet / damp environment, as you risk a potentially fatal electric shock". There does not have to be blame for it to be a good thing for Apple to review their safety advice and possibly improve it.

 

[Darandio]

If it is a poor quality charger or some sort of (likely Far Eastern) copy, then it's not likely that any safety advice from Apple would be present. Unless of course they copy the instructions using a poor translate tool, in which case the advice would be not to put your rice noodles in the bath.

This isn't the worry for me though, what worries me is that people need to be told not to do such a stupid and dangerous thing.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It's not insane to recommend it if there is no warning currently.

There is literally no reason why someone should not know that though.

Manufacturers surely can't be held responsible for or think of every idiotic thing someone can do?

I agree that there's no real blame on Apple here. However, that does not inhibit them from doing their best to highlight risks to customers. Poor quality chargers are an area where the general public's knowledge is probably not so good. With the phones being advertised as splash / water resistant, it can't hurt to say something along the lines of "do not charge in a wet / damp environment, as you risk a potentially fatal electric shock". There does not have to be blame for it to be a good thing for Apple to review their safety advice and possibly improve it.

Sorry, but if someone is stupid enough to use a phone in the bath while it is charging, then any electrocution that may happen is their own damn fault. If someone is going to do something so stupid, then there is no way they would pay any attention to any safety warnings anyway.

This isn't the worry for me though, what worries me is that people need to be told not to do such a stupid and dangerous thing.

Exactly this.

 

[Barn]

Sorry, but if someone is stupid enough to use a phone in the bath while it is charging, then any electrocution that may happen is their own damn fault.

I think bringing the 4-gang into the bath with you falls into the "remarkably stupid" category, if that is indeed what happened.

I'm not so sure the same could be said about bringing the phone and the USB charging cable into the bath with you. I think people are accustomed to the ends of charging cables being completely harmless.

 

[najaB]

There is literally no reason why someone should not know that though.

I agree, and said as much up-thread. However, the phone is specifically marketed as being 'water resistant' so it's not unreasonable that it should also carry a warning to the effect that it shouldn't be charged while in/around water.