Man dies charging iPhone while in the bath

[najaB]

There's a big difference between taking a calculated risk in the pursuit of knowledge and plain ignorance.

There's also a huge difference between ignorance and plain stupidity.

It beggars belief that someone could reach adulthood and not have been exposed to the idea that electricity and water is generally a bad combination. So this wasn't ignorance, it was just plain stupidity - the gentleman in question could have delayed either charging his phone or having his bath but wanted it all.

 

[Murph]

There's also a huge difference between ignorance and plain stupidity.

Sadly, I feel there's really a bit of both at play here. Assuming it was just the "low voltage" cable that entered the bath, I strongly suspect that a worryingly large proportion of the population won't realise that the cheap USB chargers really can expose one leg of the mains.

You can readily buy SELV bathroom lights (<50VAC / <120VDC, isolating transformer or equivalent), but there is a reason that their transformers are much larger and more expensive than the cheap USB chargers. Many are probably aware of that type of bathroom light, and "5VDC USB" must be 10x safer, right? (Wrong, as this proves, especially if it comes from a cheap mains adaptor.)

To me, it's a mix of ignorance and stupidity, overall "misadventure". There's a side helping of bad luck, as a great many domestic supplies are RCD protected these days, which would likely have turned it into a non-event (assuming that the RCD was a <=30mA fast acting device from a reputable brand and in good condition, and not a cheap no-brand from PRC).

Note: for "USB" above, that should be taken to mean any form of low voltage charging cable (with or without data), including the proprietary Apple connectors, old style round pin, etc. Also, while "cheap" adaptors are more likely to give you a nasty surprise, it's equally ill-advised with a high quality adaptor from a big brand. And, since we're on the subject, beware of cheap and nasty SELV transformers (and don't cover them in thermal insulation) unless you like having a fire risk in your attic / ceiling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sadly, I feel there's really a bit of both at play here. Assuming it was just the "low voltage" cable that entered the bath

From a bit of reading of various instances of the article it sounds like it wasn't, it sounds like he had a 4-gang resting on his chest and that plus the charger brick went in.

If true, there is nothing other than gross stupidity involved. I'd agree it would legally end up with a verdict of misadventure, but it is insanely and obviously stupid to bring mains anywhere near a bath.

 

[Murph]

From a bit of reading of various instances of the article it sounds like it wasn't, it sounds like he had a 4-gang resting on his chest and that plus the charger brick went in.

The mind boggles! Toaster and coffee machine plugged into the other outlets, and a hair dryer with dodgy cord for bonus points?!?

If he really brought the full 240VAC directly into the bath, yeah that's 99.9% gross stupidity.

 

[Barn]

Could someone help explain to me what might, electrically, have happened here? Plain English would be great if possible! I understand the basics of transformers and isolation but it has been a few years.

Let's assume for the moment that he didn't in fact have the 4-gang on his chest. Even I can understand why that would be dangerous.

I'm also interested in whether these imported cheap chargers might be dangerous because they have a specific fault, or whether it is inherently dangerous bringing the output of a charger into contact with water?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The mind boggles! Toaster and coffee machine plugged into the other outlets, and a hair dryer with dodgy cord for bonus points?!?

If he really brought the full 240VAC directly into the bath, yeah that's 99.9% gross stupidity.

That is certainly how it reads, for example one article (URL removed as it was the wrong one and I can't find the right one now)

has a quote from the Police of:

"We found an iPhone plugged into the extension cable and then the charger element in the bath," he explained.

That doesn't sound like the phone just fell in. I suppose it's possible it was something like the 4-gang with plug resting on the side of the bath and the phone on his chest and it got knocked in, though.

 

[Zoidberg]

Could someone help explain to me what might, electrically, have happened here? Plain English would be great if possible! I understand the basics of transformers and isolation but it has been a few years.

Let's assume for the moment that he didn't in fact have the 4-gang on his chest. Even I can understand why that would be dangerous.

I'm also interested in whether these imported cheap chargers might be dangerous because they have a specific fault, or whether it is inherently dangerous bringing the output of a charger into contact with water?

From various reports and observations up-thread, it was nothing to do with the charger, rather the mains extension into which the charger was plugged, and the charger became submerged.

Thus, mains electricity sought the path of least resistance to earth, mainly through the chap's body.

That said, there are safety issues with some cheap chargers not meeting the relevant standards.

Edit: Ah, I didn't notice you'd added a bit to your original post, or I overlooked the "Let's assume ..." bit.

 

[DaleCooper]

There's also a huge difference between ignorance and plain stupidity.

It beggars belief that someone could reach adulthood and not have been exposed to the idea that electricity and water is generally a bad combination. So this wasn't ignorance, it was just plain stupidity - the gentleman in question could have delayed either charging his phone or having his bath but wanted it all.

Whether we call it ignorance or stupidity I think we can agree this fellow wasn't in the same intellectual league as Charles Darwin.

 

[Barn]

Edit: Ah, I didn't notice you'd added a bit to your original post, or I overlooked the "Let's assume ..." bit.

Sorry! I added that bit later.

I understand how that would have been fatal, but it does seem so stupidly dangerous as to be quite unlikely. I'm also not quite clear why the coroner would write to the charger manufacturer in particular.

I'm mostly curious as to how a "cheap" charger might have affected the result, unless it was so faulty that electricity could simply arc from the high voltage to the low voltage side, skipping the transformer.

 

[Murph]

Could someone help explain to me what might, electrically, have happened here?

I'm also interested in whether these imported cheap chargers might be dangersous because they have a specific fault, or whether it is inherently dangerous bringing the output of a charger into contact with water?

The metal water pipes are legally required to be bonded to the building's electrical earth. With metal fixtures on the bath, they will consequently also be very likely bonded to electrical earth. If the tub itself is metal, that will also be earthed. Connect voltage to the water and the water to earth (via those fittings) and current can flow. If a human body ends up being part of that circuit, electrocution can result. I assume the misadventure here was a scenario of that type, it certainly seems the likely case.

It is both inherently dangerous to have any mains charger/device near water, and the cheap adaptors can have fundamental design and manufacturing flaws which expose the live side of the mains on the low voltage side of the adaptor. Even if they don't electrocute you, the no-brand (i.e anything which isn't a respectable brand) cheap and nasty adaptors can be a fire risk due to marginal or under-rated components (Big Clive's videos frequently discuss them having capacitors with too low a rating for UK / EU mains 220–250VAC input). Cheap and nasty is often a bad mix with mains voltage.

The only relatively safe exception to that is good quality shavers (and similar, including proper SELV equipment mentioned above) which are intended to plug into a proper bathroom shaver socket. Even those should not be used with wet hands (and certainly not in the bath/shower). If dropped in/near water (e.g. into the sink, as can easily be done), disconnect the plug from the socket before rescuing the shaver.

Edit: For example, regarding cheap and nasty, BBC News: Fake Apple chargers fail safety tests:

Investigators have warned consumers they face potentially fatal risks after 99% of fake Apple chargers failed a basic safety test.

…

 

[Barn]

It is both inherently dangerous to have any mains charger/device near water, and the cheap adaptors can have fundamental design and manufacturing flaws which expose the live side of the mains on the low voltage side of the adaptor.

So would these cheap chargers also be dangerous outside of the bathroom environment? From what you say it would seem that simply touching the male USB connector whilst standing on the ground would also be dangerous.

 

[najaB]

So would these cheap chargers also be dangerous outside of the bathroom environment? From what you say it would seem that simply touching the male USB connector whilst standing on the ground would also be dangerous.

If you happen to be holding a grounded metal pipe in the other hand, then possibly. Otherwise you will likely be too high a resistance path to be in much danger.

 

[Barn]

If you happen to be holding a grounded metal pipe in the other hand, then possibly. Otherwise you will likely be too high a resistance path to be in much danger.

Thanks. I'm exposing my ignorance here.

If I touched a 240v mains supply (perhaps by putting my finger into a desk lamp with the bulb removed, say), would I still need to be holding a metal pipe?

If not, what might the faulty charger be doing to make things a little bit safer?

 

[Murph]

So would these cheap chargers also be dangerous outside of the bathroom environment? From what you say it would seem that simply touching the male USB connector whilst standing on the ground would also be dangerous.

Yes, relative to UK and EU safety standards, some cheap and nasty adaptors are dangerous anywhere when connected to mains voltage. See the BBC News story I linked above. A good rule of thumb is that if it's not a company that you can easily bring to a UK / EU court, don't risk it. So, genuine big manufacturers should be fine, Tesco's own brand should be fine (including that not-Tesco brand they sell stuff under that is actually a Tesco brand). Anything bought new from John Lewis, Apple Store, other respectable high street retailers, etc, should be fine. Random stuff off Ebay and the like is risky. Big brand stuff at a knock down price (or even full price, but a dodgy retailer), could be counterfeit and dangerous, unless it's a sale at a well respected retailer.

 

[najaB]

If I touched a 240v mains supply (perhaps by putting my finger into a desk lamp with the bulb removed, say), would I still need to be holding a metal pipe?

If not, what is the faulty charger doing to make things a little bit safer?

If you are on a completely insulated platform you could quite happily hold on to the live side of a 240V (or 120kV for that matter) supply without any harm.

However, if there's any path to earth (or to neutral) then things will get very interesting, very quickly (I advise ensuring you have an up-to-date will before trying this).

In the case of wall chargers, they typically have a fuse/fusable resistor that will limit the total current that can flow, and so need a half-decent path to earth in order to produce a fatal current flow.

 

[DarloRich]

Probably because the coroner is covering his own backside, don't forget we live in a world where someone else is always to blame

or, perhaps, it is because it is part of the role of a coroner to make recommendations when accidental deaths occur if the evidence warrants such a recommendation. That or backside covering. Bound to be the later. HSEA gone mad etc.

I'm not laughing at it. I'm just stating that it is blindly and obviously stupid to use anything plugged into the mains (other than a shaver in a shaver socket) in a bathroom.

I run and extension into the bathroom to power my digital radio when I am in the bath. It sits on the toilet seat well away from any water. Been doing it for years and it is no different, really, to having the radio plugged in downstairs in the kitchen. There is no real risk however I wouldn't suggest sitting in the bath with the electrical equipment!

There's also a huge difference between ignorance and plain stupidity.

It beggars belief that someone could reach adulthood and not have been exposed to the idea that electricity and water is generally a bad combination. So this wasn't ignorance, it was just plain stupidity - the gentleman in question could have delayed either charging his phone or having his bath but wanted it all.

It could be ignorance and all we have to go on are short media reports. None of us have access to the evidence presented to the coroner. That said if he had the extension lead in the bath then it was an accident waiting to happen and a sad way to waste your life.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I run and extension into the bathroom to power my digital radio when I am in the bath. It sits on the toilet seat well away from any water. Been doing it for years and it is no different, really, to having the radio plugged in downstairs in the kitchen

The key problem with the bath (other than the possible effects of damp on the equipment) is that you can't easily get out. Most people survive electric shocks elsewhere because they are naturally thrown away from the source of the electricity (even if it is water related e.g. you drop the kettle in the sink[1] then touch the metal sink). If you're in the bath you won't be - it's more like the electric chair in a sense.

[1] Most cordless kettles have VERY short power cables to the base these days - mine is so short it only just reaches the worksurface from the socket. This reduces the chance of dropping it in the sink to near zero.

 

[najaB]

It could be ignorance and all we have to go on are short media reports. None of us have access to the evidence presented to the coroner.

Hopefully when the Prevention of Future Death report is written it will be more clear what happened.

 

[DaleCooper]

I run and extension into the bathroom to power my digital radio when I am in the bath. It sits on the toilet seat well away from any water. Been doing it for years and it is no different, really, to having the radio plugged in downstairs in the kitchen. There is no real risk however I wouldn't suggest sitting in the bath with the electrical equipment!

If you continue to do it after this you then you deserve a Darwin award yourself, you can't plead ignorance any more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you continue to do it after this you then you deserve a Darwin award yourself, you can't plead ignorance any more.

Agreed, there are many battery powered DAB radios on the market and he'd do well to switch to one of those.

 

[Murph]

Yeah, speaking from experience of working on live mains for diagnostic and repair purposes, the normal procedure is to jump back rapidly, land on your arse, and swear a lot while shaking the relevant limb. It's a good way to invent new compound swear words. It stings a lot, I strongly recommend against trying it, and you might be unlucky and get a small burn (or die), but many people survive fine off even 3 phase 440VAC, as long as they don't remain connected to it (or create a brief but very good path that goes too near the heart). Less than 1000VDC / 750VAC is often survivable (but risky, potentially fatal, and should always be treated with respect). It's safe enough for a skilled person that you can buy 1000V screwdrivers for live work. There's even rare cases where people survive making a relatively good circuit with multi-kilovolt overhead lines (normally with quite severe burns in that scenario).

 

[DaleCooper]

I run and extension into the bathroom to power my digital radio when I am in the bath. It sits on the toilet seat well away from any water. Been doing it for years and it is no different, really, to having the radio plugged in downstairs in the kitchen. There is no real risk however I wouldn't suggest sitting in the bath with the electrical equipment!

...and it might invalidate your house insurance.

 

[ExRes]

or, perhaps, it is because it is part of the role of a coroner to make recommendations when accidental deaths occur if the evidence warrants such a recommendation. That or backside covering. Bound to be the later. HSEA gone mad etc.

I'm sure it is a major part of the role of the coroner, on the face of it though I fail to see how the manufacturer can mitigate against an idiot such as this man

Of course it's backside covering, do you disagree that we live in a 'blame anyone except me' society?

"HSEA gone mad etc.", I don't know why you would think that but if that's your opinion who am I to argue?

 

[DarloRich]

Agreed, there are many battery powered DAB radios on the market and he'd do well to switch to one of those.

If you continue to do it after this you then you deserve a Darwin award yourself, you can't plead ignorance any more.

so what about the radio plugged in on the kitchen shelf? It is closer to the sink and running water than the toilet seat is to the bath.

There are a good 6 feet from the bath to the toilet and the lead doesn't run near the bath. The chances of an accident are low and I am happy with the risk.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm sure it is a major part of the role of the coroner, on the face of it though I fail to see how the manufacturer can mitigate against an idiot such as this man

Of course it's backside covering, do you disagree that we live in a 'blame anyone except me' society?

"HSEA gone mad etc.", I don't know why you would think that but if that's your opinion who am I to argue?

They most probably cant but it doesn't mean someone shouldn't double check. As I said we don't know all of the facts. If a design flaw with some equipment turned what should have been a survivable incident into a fatality then it should be reported and equipment changed.

I fundamentally do disagree that we live in a blame anyone but me culture but you aren't going to change your mind so it is pointless debating it.

 

[najaB]

There are a good 6 feet from the bath to the toilet and the lead doesn't run near the bath. The chances of an accident are low and I am happy with the risk.

That's what really matters - you've evaluated the situation and decided that the benefit of having music while in the bath is worth the limited risk.

I happen to agree that it doesn't sound particularly dangerous, but to answer your question - you tend to only have your hands, rather than your entire body, in the kitchen sink and so are (a) less likely to receive a shock in the first place; and (b) more likely to be able to move away in the event that you do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

so what about the radio plugged in on the kitchen shelf? It is closer to the sink and running water than the toilet seat is to the bath.

In a kitchen it is good advice not to have a portable mains device (something top heavy like a radio, say) placed such that it could fall into the sink. As I mentioned upthread kettle leads are getting smaller to reduce the likelihood of this. If your radio could fall in the sink, plug it in somewhere where it couldn't. It's good design to have sockets placed so typical appliance cords would be too short for it to happen, but houses aren't always designed like that, often kitchens "evolve" rather than being ripped out and fully redone including all electrics. (Certainly I just redid mine changing the layout slightly and did not make any electrical changes other than swapping for fancy socket faceplates).

But if it did fall in the sink while you were washing up, most likely you would be thrown away. A bath is different in that you would be unable to leave it and would be electrocuted continuously until you died.

There are a good 6 feet from the bath to the toilet and the lead doesn't run near the bath. The chances of an accident are low and I am happy with the risk.

If you are aware of the risk that is of course your choice.

 

[Dai Corner]

I wonder if the coroner's letter to Apple will comment on the length of the USB cable they supply? The one that came with my iPhone was less than a metre long I think (it failed after a few months' use and I discarded it).

If the cable had been longer the deceased man could have had the charger on the floor and not in the bath with him or balanced precariously on the edge. The incident would not occurred.

 

[DarloRich]

In a kitchen it is good advice not to have a portable mains device (something top heavy like a radio, say) placed such that it could fall into the sink. As I mentioned upthread kettle leads are getting smaller to reduce the likelihood of this. If your radio could fall in the sink, plug it in somewhere where it couldn't.

It cant - that's the point. It lives closer to the sink than the bath but the lead is less than a foot long so cant fall in either.

But if it did fall in the sink while you were washing up, most likely you would be thrown away. A bath is different in that you would be unable to leave it and would be electrocuted continuously until you died.

And if it was possible for the radio or lead to enter the bath I simply wouldn't do it. Dynamic Risk Assessment and all that

 

[najaB]

If the cable had been longer the deceased man could have had the charger on the floor and not in the bath with him or balanced precariously on the edge. The incident would not occurred.

Longer cable - increased trip hazard.