Man stabbed on Guildford to London train near Horsley

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Starmill, 4 Jan 2019.

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  1. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Discussion about the death penalty is in this thread.

    Request to all to please refrain from speculation due to a criminal case in process. Thank you.
     
  2. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Well said, i couldn't agree more.

    Some people seem far more interested in the 'gory' aspects of this terrible tragedy rather than any issue of the poor victim, or even the railway issues. I just hope some have the sense to reconsider what they posted.
     
  3. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Agreed - There is some really poor comment on this thread. Very poor indeed. It might not breach forum rules but is in bad taste and takes away from what is a terrible story.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 8 Jan 2019
  4. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    If he had mental health issues (as it would seem he may claim to have) then maybe he was easily influenced by things? Someone posted a (YouTube) play list created by someone with the same name that, if his, shows he may have had a strong interest in rather violent grime music.
     
  5. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    I'd say that for someone to stab someone not once but nine times that probably does point to mental issues of one form or another. Not an excuse though, and likewise doesn't explain how he came to have the knife on his person at the time - so lock up and throw away key IMO.
     
  6. falcon

    falcon Member

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    The accused was in court crouched down rambling about hearing voices in his head.

    It looks like mental illness is involved.

    For some one to stab another person nine times! in front of a child there could well be a mental issue.

    Shocking!
     
  7. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    I think the police clarified the first reports and that the child did not actually witness the stabbing.
     
  8. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    We're unlikely to know more information until the next stage of the crown court casein early February.

    This thread has probably run its course for now...
     
  9. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This case is subject to an active criminal trial and as such has been locked as there is little to be gained at this time by further discussion other than speculation. When there are developments please inform the Forum Staff either via the Contact Us button (bottom of every page) or via the Report button at the bottom of this post and we will consider re-opening.
     
  10. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The trial has now begun in the Old Bailey:

    Link

    As the trial is ongoing the Forum Staff are not going to reopen the thread at this time but we are aware there was a great deal of interest in this case so have decided to post an update.
     
  11. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The trial has now reached a verdict and Darren Pencille has been found guilty of murder.

    Link

    This thread is now open for further comment but we would ask that people keep in mind all provisions of the Forum Rules when posting on this very emotive subject.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jul 2019
  12. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    A good but unsurprising result.

    The victim clearly did himself no favours by continuing the confrontation and following the perpetrator into the next carriage. Unfortunately for him the guy he was arguing with was a ticking time bomb.

    The perpetrator’s history of offending makes sobering reading, especially regarding the previous almost identical attack on his friend.

    A sage reminder that it’s never wise to get into arguments with strangers these days, however trivial, whether on the railway or elsewhere.

    You simply don’t know who you’re dealing with and who might whip out a knife at the slightest provocation.
     
  13. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    I'm also glad his partner was punished appropriately too.
     
  14. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    This post is *extremely* wise.

    It’s all very well being right over a seat reservation or when someone has a bag on a seat, or whatever, but being in the right is no consolation if this ends up being the outcome. Worth remembering when people on here advocate moving belongings and the like, and as this case shows being well built means not a jot.
     
  15. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    I would assume it was an open and shut case, the incident was caught on CCTV.

    I feel sorry for the railway staff, passengers and British Transport police in this case as well as the victim's family as seeing a murder happen is not a nice thing to have to witness.
     
  16. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    I believe the guard on the service has only recently been fit to return to work following the traumatic incident.
     
  17. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    From my causal reading at the start of the case, I believe the victim was pretty hacked off that he'd been shown up Infront of his kid, so no doubt he didn't want to just walk away.

    Agree with the you don't know who you're dealing with, which is why I try to stay away from any of it when possible.
     
  18. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    I'm not going to shy away from asking someone to move their bag off of a vacant seat , I might choose wisely.
     
  19. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    One thing to remember with the sentence handed down despite what some people and some members of the media may imply Darren Pencille will not be "released after serving 14 years" his sentence is life what is mandatory for murder but he will be able to apply for parole and he may be granted it after serving 28 years if the parole board decides that he is no longer a threat. If he is released on parole he will never be free as such and can be recalled to jail at any time.
     
  20. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    If the train has seats elsewhere when I wouldn't ask someone to move their bag. If it was very busy I would.
     
  21. Pluto

    Pluto Member

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    Mr Pomeroy's widow has expressed her regret at not being there at the time, maybe a female presence would have defused the situation although normally the presence of a child would do that. I've seen the odd altercation between irate commuters at the height of rush hour, just a few words exchanged, but clearly this was a quiet train.
     
  22. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    I've already expressed my feelings on the verdict and the sentencing so I'll say no more about that. I do understand what several people have written about the risks of confronting strangers on trains, I myself as a guard understand this risk all too well. That said I am dismayed that we seem to be living in a world now where you can't call out someone's bad behaviour out of fear of being murdered.

    This was a truly brutal attack, and as a member of Traincrew that often works in trains that pass through the place of the attack it cuts a little too close to home.

    It's quite bad when you realise how thin on the ground BTP are, it's even worse when you go south of Guildford towards Portsmouth. The poor reception makes it difficult to call for help quickly and that's if they can attend at all. I've definitely noticed a upward trend of violence on the railway in the last couple of years, especially in the Portsmouth area.
     
  23. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Established Member

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    Should guards have access to GSM-R with its (virtually) 100% coverage for use in situations like this? Or at least be able to ask the driver to do so on their behalf.
     
  24. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    If its an absolute emergency guards can use the GSM-R to make an emergency call to the signaller who then can contact the police for you. However doing this means you bring all the trains in your area to a halt.

    If the situation was not dire enough to warrant it you would have to get the driver to make the call for you as guards generally (certainly not at my TOC anyway) are trained to use the GSM-R in non emergency situations. That said GSM-R reception can be iffy at times too..
     
  25. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Really? Up here we have all the customer service control numbers etc programmed in and even Rosters, use of the GSM-R by guards is totally routine for all sorts of calls (except naturally ringing the emergency services, regrettably, because presumably as a none railway number it's never been programmed in).

    Just a bit surprised as I can't imagine not having it anymore (I started in the bad old days of NRN and it was awful).

    The only trains we can't use it on are HSTs as there's no access to the power car cab except in emergency and class 153s because you can only use one interface at once as there is only one set of equipment per unit.

    GSM-R has an internal phone book specified by the TOC - you pick who you want to call, press go and it's as easy as that.

    For such a powerful tool I can't believe more use isn't made of it. Maybe in densely trafficked areas like the London area large numbers of routine calls would cause network issues.
     
  26. al78

    al78 Established Member

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    I tend to agree, but the other side of the coin is that not calling people out on poor behaviour gives license for them to continue being bullies/assholes/whatever without comeback. Once people get accustoomed to acting like pricks without consequence, they develop an entitlement attitude to keep doing it, I suspect the violent retributions come from those who have developed that entitlement attitude, because their behaviour hasn't been nipped in the bud. I can only hope that sooner or later, these sort of people will pick on someone who 1. doesn't take BS and 2. is more than capable of smashing their face in.
     
  27. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes it's not a good idea to follow someone and confront them and get into a bad tempered altercation, but I don't think people should stop pulling people up for bad behaviour. They are not really the same thing.
     
  28. al78

    al78 Established Member

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    They are in terms of potential consequences, i.e. having the perpetrator turn on you. People have been murdered without actually following the perpetrator, and the argument was it is never wise to get into a confrontation. Any time you challenge someone that is precisely what you are doing, the alternative is to never challenge, which, as I said, has the unfortunate side effect of letting perpetrators carry on with poor behaviour without consequence, thus validating it.
     
  29. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    People have indeed been murdered without following the perpetrator (e.g. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/boy...throwing-chips-at-his-girlfriend-6581291.html), or even without even getting into a confrontation (e.g. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-harold-hill-stabbing-first-14077176).
    So if we are that worried, we might as well lock ourselves at home and not venture out.

    Sometimes I wonder if the police cannot protect us, perhaps it could make sense to allow people to arm themselves. You do not hear all this anti social behaviour in US, for example. An armed society is a polite society.
     
  30. al78

    al78 Established Member

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    I assume you are being sarcastic here.
     
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