Manchester Airport Express???

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by GNERman, 19 Nov 2011.

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  1. GNERman

    GNERman Established Member

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    All,

    Just having a quick thought here.

    Would it not be best to have a dedicated Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport service???

    Excluding Northern slow services

    Currently, from what I can see, there are roughly :

    3tpd ATW services
    4tph TPE plus Windermere, Edinburgh/Glasgow and Barrow-in-Furness (although some are combined with others)
    2tph Northern

    So, would it not be best to operate a seperate company, possibly part of either the Northern or TPE franchises, to operate this corridor, and, possibly, with a similar job (eg Heathrow Connect) for the local services?

    A possible timetable could be something like 6tph Fast and 2tph Slow, with both slows working to Crewe for connections with the WCML.

    These could be worked by a fleet of 350's or derivative with First Class and proper Luggage Storage, unlike the unsuitable 185's...

    OR, as part of the Northern Hub proposals, could 2tph start from Manchester Victoria and work via an electrified Ordsall Curve???

    Some benefits i'm thinking of are that it could allow a better fleet utilisation for Northern and TPE, with less units required for services. Also, for TPE, it could allow the extension of some of these services to destinations such as Chester or Southport, which both Arriva TPE and FTPE are/were interested in...
     
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  3. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    I agree, but I'd run and hide if I was you after saying that!
     
  4. OxtedL

    OxtedL Established Member Quizmaster

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    It is essential for political reasons that everywhere in north England has a direct service to Manchester Airport. If this does not happen, the whole world spontaneously ceases to exist.

    Alas.
     
  5. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    How about a reopened Mayfield station linked by travelator to Piccadilly for the exclusive Airport shuttles?

    Love it! :lol:
     
  6. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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  7. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    1tph (which the level of service currently is) shouldn't be too much of an issue. Start it from Mayfield too!
     
  8. GNERman

    GNERman Established Member

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    If you read it properly...

    A possible timetable could be something like 6tph Fast and 2tph Slow, with both slows working to Crewe for connections with the WCML.
     
  9. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    It sounds like a backwards step to me. Gatwick & Heathrow get a service to London because it isn't physical possible to get to all of the destinations people come from to fly from them. Howover London is.

    Whereas at Manchester, it is physically possible to reach large places of the north directly, so why stop that?

    I hope that makes sense, I have a feeling it may be one of those moments where it makes sense in your head but you can't quite put it into words as you want!
     
  10. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    To be fair, Gatwick has through services to quite a few places other than London (Brighton, Luton, Southampton, Eastbourne, Reading, Portsmouth, Guildford, etc.)
     
  11. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    Yeah, but although they are a lot of places, they aren't that many when looking at where Gatwicks passengers will have come from if you get what I mean
     
  12. GNERman

    GNERman Established Member

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    Maybe so, however, I feel there are benefits to reap as well...
     
  13. richw

    richw Established Member

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    i used a picaddilly to airport service last saturday, that ran non stop, so surely that TPE meets the criteria!
     
  14. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    True, but these services are ones which would have been passing through Gatwick anyway, they weren't diverted (or made to reverse) to extend to the Airport.

    Whereas everything that serves Manchester Airport has been extended/diverted there, often causing conflicting movements (e.g. the two/hour from York have to cross all the paths at Piccadilly to get from the Guide Bridge lines to the Airport lines when they reverse there).

    Not serving the Airport would allow a lot of through links to be restored, like a service from South Yorkshire to Blackpool, or from Chester to Leeds.

    It'd also mean we don't have the daft situation where places like Blackpool/Southport see one of their Manchester trains depart from Victoria whilst the other departs from Piccadilly, which would give people a much more consistent service.

    Sadly there's a lot of politics involved, and OxtedL is correct about every village in northern England needing a direct service to Manchester Airport (to avoid armageddon) :lol:
     
  15. tom1649

    tom1649 Member

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    There are too many diesels using the electrified lines into Manchester Airport, although this should change with the forthcoming electrification scheme.
     
  16. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I can see the point about better stock utilisation - but really I suspect services to the Airport wouldn't be nearly as popular without direct trains from lots of areas. ( know lots of normals who baulk at the idea of dragging their luggage onto one train, let alone with a transfer across Piccaddilly !).

    I really don't see the point of a seperate company though. The railway is too fragmented as it is IMO.
     
  17. johnnychips

    johnnychips Established Member

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    I use it from DON to MIA a lot, and as yorksrob says, a great attraction is not having to drag cases across Piccadilly, especially if it involves platforms 13 and 14. It's a great service, even better now some peak services have ceased stopping between Piccadilly and the airport.
     
  18. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    If you look at the First TPE services that run, there are many that do not stop in-between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport (and vice versa). There are others with only one stop (e.g. Heald Green). Do not forget that the Styal line is also used for container train traffic, when planning new "tph" services.
     
  19. merlodlliw

    merlodlliw Established Member

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    It took a lot of bargaining to get ATW into the third largest passenger airport in the UK, With the last WG I had visions of a special WG open access Holyhead to Rhoose:), people in North Wales fly from Manchester & Liverpool.

    Has we are talking Airports, I note carriers are flocking to leave Rhoose in favour of Bristol,


    Bob
     
  20. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    I have a lot of sympathy for the suggestion, which if implemented properly would offer clear benefits to passengers - more efficient use of units = more frequent and or more reliable services.

    But the direct connection is important for many passengers and in the case of an airport there is a genuinly good case for prioritizing the connection due to the luggage issue. I'd suggest a compromise in which, say, every third train from each direction ran through, along with the first and last train each day, but that would probably end with the worst of both worlds!
     
  21. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    How long have ATW have had plans to extend some of their Llandudno to Manchester Piccadilly services to Manchester Airport station?
     
  22. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    That's a fair compromise, would be interesting to see how that would work.

    The problem I have is that, whilst I sympathise with the problems of "holidaymakers" lugging their luggage around Piccadilly, we have a situation where "a couple from Scunthorpe taking their annual holiday" appears to be more important than effective use of stock and paths across Northern England. The tail wagging the dog...
     
  23. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Do you see much in the future plans for the existing First TPE area to give you any hope that matters will improve?
     
  24. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    Thinking too small.

    "Airports Express" service should run:-

    Manchester - Manchester-Airport - Birmingham - Birmingham Airport - Reading (for Heathrow) - Southampton Airport Parkway - Southampton.

    (With appropriate calling points).

    Service operating every 30 minutes, starting early and finishing late with the secondary benefit of giving Birmingham a realistic service after 9pm.

    Plan for implementation once the knitting is up between Coventry & Reading using dual-power electric units.

    Operated as part of the XC franchise using new build 8 car stock designed for airport travellers as well as regular passengers between these cities.
     
  25. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    All depends on the boundaries for the next franchise, Paul
     
  26. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    From the North Stansted currently has 1tph provided by XC from Birmingham via Peterborough. There has been talk of doubling this service. Would probably be better if the Norwich-Cambridge service was extended allowing more areas a direct link to the airport & still providing 2tph from Ely & Cambridge. I think XC already has plans to extend the Leicester terminators through to Cambridge though.
     
  27. Captain Speaking

    Captain Speaking Established Member

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    The Styal line suffers from overuse between the Airport and Picc, and underuse between Wilmslow and the Airport. Because of lack of paths on the northern section, there are no trains Wilmslow to Picc except one per hour that stops for a long time at the airport. And poor old Styal station sees very few trains stopping!

    The original purpose of the Styal line (a 'Stockport avoid' route from Crewe to Manchester) can no longer be enjoyed beacuse the section from the Airport northwards is so full!
     
  28. ANorthernGuard

    ANorthernGuard Established Member

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    We always seem to be delayed at the Airport waiting TPE services to enter the station, gets to be a joke sometimes as we can never make up the time, between Picc and The Airport is just too congested and no one has any Leeway to make up time.
     
  29. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    And
    2tph Northern via Stockport
    1tph ATW via Stockport
    1tph VT via Stockport
    And any extras XC might care to throw in occasionally...
     
  30. 185

    185 Established Member

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    Never work, think Manchester is a unique situation which has relied on cross city journeys for some time, after all, single seat journeys appeal to more customers.

    I personally would like to see TPE fragmented into 38 pieces, and FirstGroup only allowed to operate a small section between Haymarket and Edinburgh. Personal opinion, of course ;)
     
  31. Invincibles

    Invincibles Member

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    One of the side effects of the Northern Hub is that it will mean a lot more trains from 13/14 (15/16) to and from the airport. This means more inconvenience for the people of Manchester trying to get from Piccadilly to the airport.

    For this reason I would consider inserting stops into the slower of the trains going to the airport (Liverpool, Blackpool North, Southport or whatever) and then terminate the Crewe - Airport - Manchester at the airport.

    This would then make room for a dedicated train from Piccadilly to the Airport to combine with the Cleethorpes - Airport train to offer fast and easy links from the main concourse. Careful use of Platform 12 could ensure that the unit can actually have a decent layover at Piccadilly to make it easier to board.

    While it might be nice to have a dedicated unit I would actually try and get the diagram worked by TPE using their Scotland stock as first choice (should be specified with the right amount of luggage space) and then if there is a problem on that service they can form the train from one of their other units.

    As someone who lives in Manchester (when in England) I think having services into the main part of Piccadilly is important.
     
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