Manea Fail to Call?

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Starmill, 18 May 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

    Messages:
    8,957
    Joined:
    18 May 2012
    Location:
    Manchester
    I was waiting at Manea for the 1826 CrossCountry service to Birmingham today, which I saw go through without stopping at around 2 minutes late. This was not fantastic given the complete lack of anything in terms of facilities at Manea and the next train being 53 minutes later. I'm aware Manea used to be a request stop, but I'd put some effort into establishing weather this was still the case - and it isn't. I was the only person waiting, and actually did signal to the driver until it became clear the train was going too fast to be standing that close.

    I used the help point, which kept disconnecting but they eventually said I'd just have to wait for the following train. The signaller also came out onto the balcony and said he didn't know why the train hadn't stopped, but that there was another one towards Peterborough at 1909. He also mentioned quite a lot of people usually get off that train there - they would have had a lovely long wait at March of almost two hours if they'd been onboard.

    So can anyone shed any light on what happened? I'd been in Manea for 2 hours as it was and the village although apparebtly quite populous didn't have any toilets or shops that were open. I was 2 hours late at my destination too. Thank God it was fairly warm and not raining.
     
  2. DasLunatic

    DasLunatic Member

    Messages:
    689
    Joined:
    11 May 2015
    It sounds like something a new driver would do TBH.
     
  3. scott118

    scott118 Member

    Messages:
    866
    Joined:
    24 Feb 2015
    Location:
    East Anglia
    or indeed, any driver, TBH
     
  4. SprinterMan

    SprinterMan Established Member

    Messages:
    2,320
    Joined:
    20 Sep 2010
    Location:
    Hertford
    Thank god for AGA making their calls normal stops :P
     
  5. First class

    First class Established Member

    Messages:
    2,733
    Joined:
    9 Aug 2008
    As for any passengers on the train, I suspect XC would have contacted EMT to request a Special Stop Order for their 1L13 19:01 from March towards Norwich if there was any great number of passengers.
     
  6. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,211
    Joined:
    26 Oct 2013
    Simple driver error apparently. No idea whether that means they forgot, misread their schedule card etc but that's the official line. Remote little shack that !
     
  7. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,822
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2014
    Location:
    West of Andover
    Maybe it was the same driver on the 13:07 Bexhill to Brighton service yesterday which didn't stop at Glynde to the annoyance of around 15 passengers waiting on the platform :P
     
  8. Searle

    Searle Established Member

    Messages:
    1,546
    Joined:
    4 May 2012
    Location:
    London
    Can't possibly be the driver's fault. Definitely your fault Kofieye ;)
     
  9. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,211
    Joined:
    26 Oct 2013
    The award for irrelevant **** stirring post of the day goes to Searle then.
     
  10. alexl92

    alexl92 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,318
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2014
    Just out of interest can't the signaller ensure the train stops if he's aware that there's someone on the platform waiting for it?
     
  11. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

    Messages:
    8,957
    Joined:
    18 May 2012
    Location:
    Manchester
    Signallers might have a setup like that at request stops - but as Manea isn't one, I guess they expect it just works in the way it does everywhere else - if the train is booked to call then its stops, even if nobody wants to get on or off.

    It sure isnt easy to get there except by train either.
     
  12. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Why can't it be the drivers fault? It's a simple error for a driver to make and happens from time to time.

    Although I'm guessing you are making a pointless post just to troll a bit...
     
  13. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    15,554
    Joined:
    7 Aug 2005
    Location:
    0035
    It was clearly a joke between friends, hence the winking smiley.
     
  14. Searle

    Searle Established Member

    Messages:
    1,546
    Joined:
    4 May 2012
    Location:
    London
    There are always posts going the other way, so I couldn't resist :lol:
     
  15. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

    Messages:
    8,957
    Joined:
    18 May 2012
    Location:
    Manchester
    Not that there was any suggestion of that. Although now you have pointed it out it naturally causes people to become defensive.
     
  16. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

    Messages:
    1,400
    Joined:
    5 Jun 2011
    Location:
    St. Albans
    It is a fine line between a simple error and a catastrophe
     
  17. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Really? So how could a fail to call be a catastrophe?! How can a train not stopping at a through station due to a misread diagram possibly pose ANY danger to anyone at all?!

    It's a fail to call, inconvenient? Yes. Dangerous? Absolutely not in the slightest, no matter how vivid your imagination!

    A fail to call is the simplest and safest of all the possible driver errors. In most cases it isn't even investigated past the driver being asked why he didn't stop and a half joking slap round the wrist. Unless there is a history of incidents it is incredibly unlikely the driver will see a manager face to face or be taken off track. Normally a case of just asked for a report at their earliest convenience.
     
  18. IanD

    IanD Established Member

    Messages:
    2,272
    Joined:
    18 Sep 2011
    Location:
    Newport Pagnell
    That idiot putting the camera on the tracks in this thread Moron's day out might get run over if his train arrives earlier than expected.
     
  19. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    That would have nothing to do with a fail to call. Any huge number of things can alter the times a train arrives at s point. And obviously no one should ever be on the line reliant solely on a timetable. So no, a fail to call would have no bearing on some idiots stupidity.
     
  20. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,332
    Joined:
    10 May 2010
    Anyone remember a few years ago, that elderly lady in her car being hit by the Network rail 37 on the mid Wales line because she didn't stop, look or listen at the crossing?
    Her family tried to say it was the railways fault for running on an extra train because she knew the timetable and there wasn't a train due so there was no need to look?
     
  21. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,973
    Joined:
    2 Oct 2009
    Location:
    East Anglia
    Failure to call is quite frowned upon nowadays leading to drivers being put on a plan & possibly disciplinary action should there record be a bad one from previous incidents. Too be honest it is so easy to miss a station particularly if it is an irregular stop or stopping pattern. Let's not forget train driving can be extremely boring & the flat landscape & rural nature of Manea's location make this an even more monotonous route where it can be very easy to overlook the call. Same applies to the likes of Shippea Hill, Eccles Road etc.
     
  22. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

    Messages:
    1,400
    Joined:
    5 Jun 2011
    Location:
    St. Albans
    Yes, I agree it is an error, but it does show a lack of attention.
     
  23. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Not really it dosnt. Not in the same way as many other incidents. And lack of attention is one of many reasons for a FTC. I have known of FTCs which occurred because a driver had 3 Hertford loops on their diagram each with a different stopping pattern and they folded their schedule card and had the wrong trip up on front of them. So as far as they were concerned they stopped everywhere their schedule told them to!

    Sorry but a FTC is NOT. A safety of the line issue. Some TOCs try and argue it as such but it isn't and the majority of TOCs won't count them. Ok, if you miss a big station then that's one thing but a tiny little station like this one is a complete non-incident.
     
  24. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

    Messages:
    3,200
    Joined:
    14 Apr 2009
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Hardly a complete non-incident as you put it but I get the point you are trying to make. Probably more than a tea & biscuits incident for the driver involved, inconvenient for the passengers involved, but as no SPAD took place, definitely not a safety critical incident.
     
  25. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Depends on XC policy but at my TOC if I had a FTC with no previous incidents and assuming it wasn't an obviously big station (or if for example I missed Royston on an up cruiser additionally stopping at Royston) I wouldn't be taken off track, no interview with a DM and no disciplinary. I'd just be asked for a brief report to be submitted when I get a chance.

    With the vastly more intense diagrams and varied stopping patterns TOCs are currently pushing through FTCs are far more common and apart from the obvious inconvenience are in no way a safety issue at all.
     
  26. crehld

    crehld Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    1,959
    Joined:
    1 Nov 2014
    Location:
    Between Crewe & Hellifield
    It's obviously not a safety critical incident as you say. I think people's concern is, however, it demonstrates a lack of focus and attention on the driver's part, and in another more high risk situation such lack of attention could be extremely dangerous. Driving a train is a demanding job and requires the highest level of attention at all times. People make mistakes and have lapses of concentration, I accept, but when you're driving a train at speed this can have serious consequences.

    I think some are therefore rightly concerned by the dismissivness given to this lack of attention. Missing a station call is not unsafe, failing to keep your eye on the ball at all times potentially is.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Surely not checking for the nuances in stopping patterns and putting the card to display the wrong trip before you set off is indicative of a lack of attention to detail?

    No an FTC is not a safety critical incident. However the underlying lack of attention could potential lead to one.
     
  27. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham Established Member

    Messages:
    2,843
    Joined:
    23 Mar 2013
    Location:
    Powys
    Yes, and actually it was a big yellow train on the Cambrian Coast. It was a Sunday morning and she had the timetable stuck to her dash board!
     
    Last edited: 20 May 2015
  28. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Just because you miss a station dosnt mean you are not concentrating or not paying enough attention! It most definitely does not mean you 'could have had a more serious incident'. Absolutely no evidence to suggest that EVER being the case!

    Once again a very experienced member of staff (ie me) is stating the FACTS about something and a load of arm chair experts are trying to argue that I'm wrong!
     
  29. talltim

    talltim Established Member

    Messages:
    1,776
    Joined:
    17 Jan 2010
    Very defensive...
     
  30. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Well yea, but wouldn't you be if a load of people who clearly don't know what they are talking about kept on stating you were wrong when you do actually know a lot about something...?!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page