How short is short?
Compared to the rest of the ECML, Edinburgh-Aberdeen is "short", but as a line in itself is non-trivial in length. And putting wires on the Tay Bridge would be...er..."fun"!
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Compared to the rest of the ECML, Edinburgh-Aberdeen is "short", but as a line in itself is non-trivial in length. And putting wires on the Tay Bridge would be...er..."fun"!
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Whistler40145
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Hmmmm.......That would be a project & a half for NR!
I agree with this one. We were told they shouldn't be scheduled north of Stafford, but with 3tph Brum it's gone out the window forever and as such I use Virgin more.
My contribution is non-passenger - 66s on under-wire routes. Southampton-NW routes yes fine, but not all the ones using the WCML and running through Willesden.
Oh, and for the record, I don't mind Voyagers unless they're running too much under wires. The problems IMO come as a victim of their own success - the VT HSTs I caught pre-220 ran infrequently and almost empty, and it's a credit to the industry that demand has risen to the level about which we find so much to argue.
The emergency diesel engine though is needed in case the OHL fails.
1709 Birmingham Intl - Holyhead is booked a 4-car 158 but on Monday turned up a single 158 due to a failure at Pwhelli and was absolutely rammed and is full/standing when a 4-car so you can imagine the 2 car fun!
Not exactly 'inappropriate' given it was a caused by a unit failure, which is presumably on the same roster?
Not ideal, admittedly, but the service was provided. If it was a normal occurence, I'd agree it's inappropriate, but this seems to be a response to a 'one off' problem.
Yes, I'd agree with this one - it shouldn't happen but does far too regularly.
It also means that 350/1s are being used where their lower density seating is more likely to cause an issue (MK or Tring - Euston at a guess).
I'd also add the use of HSTs on the MML where the service stops south of Leicester.
There are potentially 5 stops between Leicester and London (Mkt Harborough, Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton / Airport Parkway) - given their inferior acceleration and slower boarding times compared to Meridians, they really ought not be scheduled for these.
MCR247
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Off peak HSTs can only be found doing NOT-EMD-LEI-market Harborough-StP
Not exactly the Corby stopper. This is the only service they can be used on
Not exactly the Corby stopper. This is the only service they can be used on
Agree you don't get as many as you used to, however HSTs are not suited to stop/start journeys - it was claimed at one time it was the reason MML's HSTs were less reliable than GNER's or FGW's.
It's a Sprinter, being used on a stopping service (the kind of thing it was designed to do) - so it's inappropriate how exactly?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
If it was a single 153 on Calder Vale it would be as suitable as a 142 on LM's Euston-Northampton service. If it was a 3 car 144 plus a 153 then I can't see how the 153 would have been unsuitable to tag on to the 144.
Schnellzug
Established Member
Is that so much more arduous than Paddington-Bristol? If there was any disparity in reliability, perhaps it might be more to do with the choice of engines...
The problem as I understood it was that they were frequently stop / starting - particularly when you had Luton, Bedford, Wellingborough, Kettering, Market Harborough and Leicester with hard acceleration to keep time.
I think they were breaking transmissions and brakes more than engines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK - so it's a capacity issue - rather than performance, comfort or suitability argument. Surely it depends how busy the relevant service is?
It's also a very different line. Paddington-Bristol has something like 80 miles of 125 mph running, which the semi-fasts often don't quite reach, but get very close to. The MML currently has 0 miles of 125 mph, although they are working on it. Comes from one being straight and flat, the other being hilly and twisty. So the MML has far more acceleration/braking zones between stations as opposed to leaving it in Notch 5 from one station to another.
Whatever it is that's used on the Glasgow-Mallaig line. No idea what it's called but we did it last week and for a 5-5.5 hour jorurney it's a pretty basic and uncomfortable train. In contrast the Inverness-Thurso/Wick train we did a couple of years ago was much newer and more comfortable.
junglejames
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A 156? I suppose its a matter of opinion, but i find them quite comfy. You wont get much else up there.
As for the Far North Line. That'll be a 158. Yes they are nicer inside. Fantastic trains. Quieter inside as well.
Id never complain about a 156 though. Get on with whatever you want them to, with the minimum of fuss.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
I'd say that the 156s are as appropriate as its' possible to be for the West Highland line: Nice big windows letting passengers get a good look at the views, a decent amount of luggage space, some nippy acceleration and simply being solid, reliable units. Although their original style interiors maybe do let them down a little bit over twenty years on.
It's interesting to see a perception that the 158s are "much newer" when they are in fact just two or three years younger than the 156s but have benefitted from a decent refurbishment.
Whistler40145
Established Member
Class 156s are a luxury compared to Classes 142, 150 & 153!
Could you imagine if Network Rail passed Class 142s for the WHL!
Could you imagine if Network Rail passed Class 142s for the WHL!
WestCoast
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MidnightFlyer
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It'd give the best views of the most scenic line in Britain (dare I say Europe?).
junglejames
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Brilliant. Going to have to start a petition for pacers on the WHL!! Anyone want to sign it?!!
WestCoast
Established Member
Unless you've travelled on all the 'scenic lines' in Europe, then you can't make the judgement...
. Very beautiful line though - the most scenic in the UK I would say.However, the 142 offers excellent observation (only beaten in Europe by the Swiss observation cars), if not the comfort or the facilities.
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12CSVT
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5 car 222s between Kettering and Corby (usually 2 or 3 people per coach outside the peaks)
4 car 222s on Nottingham - St Pancras stoppers (opposite reason to above)
10 years ago I would have said 2 car 170s on St Pancras services (just what were MML thinking of ? Constantly wedged no matter what time of day it was)
A possible one for the future would be District line 'D' stock on Leeds - Harrogate services
4 car 222s on Nottingham - St Pancras stoppers (opposite reason to above)
10 years ago I would have said 2 car 170s on St Pancras services (just what were MML thinking of ? Constantly wedged no matter what time of day it was)
A possible one for the future would be District line 'D' stock on Leeds - Harrogate services
Whistler40145
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junglejames, I was being sarcastic about Class 142s. I wouldn't wish Class 142s on anybody!
junglejames
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Why not. Some of them are quite comfy. Only a problem if they are full
MCR247
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We (Nottingham) don't get all that many 222/1s apart from a few joined to 5 cars in the evenings. I believe the 1302 of Nottingham is booked a /1 though. But yes, Corby could do with a service to London every 2 hours with a service to Derby or somewhere taking its place in the second hour. Oh well
MK Tom
Established Member
We (Nottingham) don't get all that many 222/1s apart from a few joined to 5 cars in the evenings. I believe the 1302 of Nottingham is booked a /1 though. But yes, Corby could do with a service to London every 2 hours with a service to Derby or somewhere taking its place in the second hour. Oh well
The Nottingham via Bedford 222 working seems to have whatever they could spare on it; I've frequently known it to be a /0 or a /1. Same goes for the Corby run. The hourly Corby service is very useful for those of us who do like to go there and its patronage increases every time I use it, however the 222s are overkill on that stretch of the route. I think the best and obvious thing to do is extend the service to Oakham/Melton and onwards to Derby. That way Corby gets its direct services to the north (one change to Peterborough for example, or direct with a reversal at Oakham?) and the loadings on those service improve further.
Nothing wrong with 150's and 153's. 150's are usually quieter than 156's however need a refurb. Bot have had a hard life though and need work to keep them going ( mechanical and interior)
153's are better than 156's (when used in multiple) as you get more window and the ride is similar
153's are better than 156's (when used in multiple) as you get more window and the ride is similar
A couple of weeks ago, I had to to Edinburgh-Aberdeen on a 158. Anyone who says they like them must be mad! Three hours jammed into a hard Richmond seat that seemed to be tipping forwards the whole time as if it wanted to shoot me onto the floor and with a headrest that pushed my head forwards so that my chin was jammed into my chest. Then there was the noise, there's something malevolent about the 158 when starting. The ride was OK at 70-90, so I'll give them that. Still, next time I'll get into the 170 instead (only went to the front to save on walking at the other end).
There happened to be a 156 in the next platform. Softer seats without those awful headrests and a much nicer noise. Also probably a better ride at 50-60 (West Highland/Far North sort of speeds). Only BREL could have ruined such a great design by trying to make it go faster.
There happened to be a 156 in the next platform. Softer seats without those awful headrests and a much nicer noise. Also probably a better ride at 50-60 (West Highland/Far North sort of speeds). Only BREL could have ruined such a great design by trying to make it go faster.
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